Fun bikes I tested (Synapse, Tarmac, R2)
09-12-15, 05:37 PM
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You sound like a wine aficionado!
When I read your reviews of various bikes it reminded me of a wine tasting course I did. We were supposed to taste hints of vanilla, strawberry and lilac in the wine but I never could.
I have no doubt you can tell the differences and I'm glad you documented them for everyone to enjoy but I guess I not only have an unrefined palette but also an unrefined backside, arms, legs and head. I could tell some of the differences you pointed out b/w racing and endurance geometries but that's about it.
Great thread!
I have no doubt you can tell the differences and I'm glad you documented them for everyone to enjoy but I guess I not only have an unrefined palette but also an unrefined backside, arms, legs and head. I could tell some of the differences you pointed out b/w racing and endurance geometries but that's about it.
Great thread!
09-13-15, 07:21 AM
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Okay, so yesterday I went back to LBS #2 and took 3 more test rides on two bikes I've already ridden: a 56 R2 and a 56 Tarmac. I was only able to take each ride for like 10 mins, so I wasn't able to glean the feel over a long ride so these are just first impressions. However, they're very telling.
First I rode the R2 set up 'straight out of the box' with stem all the way up. I mean, it's ridiculously comfortable. The stock setup is definitely a little heads up, but not as high as an 'endurance' bike like a Synapse. Really nice, really nimble, compliant, quick, pleasure to ride. I don't know how Cervelo does it. One minor nitpick: the R2, unlike it's R3 big sibling, is equipped with 105s but they cut some corners, and the brakes, which are FSA, are actually really weak. I would need them replaced. Other reviews confirm my observation.
Next I rode the Tarmac Expert, which was all Ultegra. Really nice bike and really great to ride. The head tube is something like 2.5cm lower so the drop is lower than the R2 right out of the box. I like the drop on the Tarmac actually, as I like the slightly more aero position. BUT... the bike didn't fit exactly right. My hamstrings felt pretty tight, and I felt wrist pressure at the end of my ride. It was minor, but I didn't feel those sensations on the R2. I realize the bike wasn't exactly fit to me, so maybe those things could get ironed out. Of course, a 50 mile ride might change my mind. In other words, it's not 100% perfect, but it's not bad: it's like an 80% fit match.
Lastly, for sake of comparison, I had them lower the stem on the R2 by about 2.5 cm to get the same position on the R2 as the Tarmac and rode it again. Again, I felt perfect on the R2. It seems that no matter what I do to the R2, I'm really comfortable on it. I just don't get how or why. In fact, it almost feels anti-climactic (or bland?) because I don't have to bear any stress from the ride, I just have to ride without thinking about fit.
I think I can make the Tarmac fit with a proper fitting process, but I'm not sure it's worth passing up the Cervelo with its excellent fit. However, what is throwing off my calculus is that I honestly want Ultegra on either one, and the shop is willing to sell me the Tarmac Comp for $2,600 in a white frame I really like; the equivalent Cervelo, the R3, is $3750 (I found one for $3275 at a shop I really don't like) but i'm not thrilled by the color of the R3. (I like the white of the R2.) So, do I pay extra for the fit? Or do I take the amazing value for the Tarmac and presume I can get the fit to work??
Let me throw in a wrinkle. This morning I rode my buddy's Tarmac in 58. As I mentioned above, I was eyeing the 58 Tarmac frame. His bike obviously wasn't set up for me and the saddle was a little high, but despite that I think I could make it work better than the size 56; I think it's because the bigger bike brought up the head tube and gave me a little extra reach. But even so, the Cervelo felt just like a great fit.
Summary: The Cervelo fits great and rides beautifully even with a healthy drop, but I think the Tarmac could work too but not positive and it's more affordable.
First I rode the R2 set up 'straight out of the box' with stem all the way up. I mean, it's ridiculously comfortable. The stock setup is definitely a little heads up, but not as high as an 'endurance' bike like a Synapse. Really nice, really nimble, compliant, quick, pleasure to ride. I don't know how Cervelo does it. One minor nitpick: the R2, unlike it's R3 big sibling, is equipped with 105s but they cut some corners, and the brakes, which are FSA, are actually really weak. I would need them replaced. Other reviews confirm my observation.
Next I rode the Tarmac Expert, which was all Ultegra. Really nice bike and really great to ride. The head tube is something like 2.5cm lower so the drop is lower than the R2 right out of the box. I like the drop on the Tarmac actually, as I like the slightly more aero position. BUT... the bike didn't fit exactly right. My hamstrings felt pretty tight, and I felt wrist pressure at the end of my ride. It was minor, but I didn't feel those sensations on the R2. I realize the bike wasn't exactly fit to me, so maybe those things could get ironed out. Of course, a 50 mile ride might change my mind. In other words, it's not 100% perfect, but it's not bad: it's like an 80% fit match.
Lastly, for sake of comparison, I had them lower the stem on the R2 by about 2.5 cm to get the same position on the R2 as the Tarmac and rode it again. Again, I felt perfect on the R2. It seems that no matter what I do to the R2, I'm really comfortable on it. I just don't get how or why. In fact, it almost feels anti-climactic (or bland?) because I don't have to bear any stress from the ride, I just have to ride without thinking about fit.
I think I can make the Tarmac fit with a proper fitting process, but I'm not sure it's worth passing up the Cervelo with its excellent fit. However, what is throwing off my calculus is that I honestly want Ultegra on either one, and the shop is willing to sell me the Tarmac Comp for $2,600 in a white frame I really like; the equivalent Cervelo, the R3, is $3750 (I found one for $3275 at a shop I really don't like) but i'm not thrilled by the color of the R3. (I like the white of the R2.) So, do I pay extra for the fit? Or do I take the amazing value for the Tarmac and presume I can get the fit to work??
Let me throw in a wrinkle. This morning I rode my buddy's Tarmac in 58. As I mentioned above, I was eyeing the 58 Tarmac frame. His bike obviously wasn't set up for me and the saddle was a little high, but despite that I think I could make it work better than the size 56; I think it's because the bigger bike brought up the head tube and gave me a little extra reach. But even so, the Cervelo felt just like a great fit.
Summary: The Cervelo fits great and rides beautifully even with a healthy drop, but I think the Tarmac could work too but not positive and it's more affordable.
This thread has been amusing but you lost me here, sorry.
Your first post in this thread says this - "I've learned that, at least to me, fit is more important than components, colors, etc. All those things are good to examine after the fit is secured."
And you then go on to laboriously detail the huge multitude of test rides you took in your Arthurian quest for the perfect fit.
Yet after all is said and done you end up stating this - "Summary: The Cervelo fits great and rides beautifully even with a healthy drop, but I think the Tarmac could work too but not positive and it's more affordable"
09-13-15, 09:24 AM
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@bigcicero Excellent! Glad to hear that you ended up with the R3. You knew that was the bike for you. Glad to hear that the fitter confirmed that, instead of trying to talk you out of it and recommending something off-the-wall (as often happens!).
Now go ride that beauty, and enjoy the heck out of it!
Now go ride that beauty, and enjoy the heck out of it!
09-13-15, 09:40 AM
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@bigcicero Excellent! Glad to hear that you ended up with the R3. You knew that was the bike for you. Glad to hear that the fitter confirmed that, instead of trying to talk you out of it and recommending something off-the-wall (as often happens!).
Now go ride that beauty, and enjoy the heck out of it!
Now go ride that beauty, and enjoy the heck out of it!
09-13-15, 10:01 AM
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Okay
This thread has been amusing but you lost me here, sorry.
Your first post in this thread says this - "I've learned that, at least to me, fit is more important than components, colors, etc. All those things are good to examine after the fit is secured."
And you then go on to laboriously detail the huge multitude of test rides you took in your Arthurian quest for the perfect fit.
Yet after all is said and done you end up stating this - "Summary: The Cervelo fits great and rides beautifully even with a healthy drop, but I think the Tarmac could work too but not positive and it's more affordable"
This thread has been amusing but you lost me here, sorry.
Your first post in this thread says this - "I've learned that, at least to me, fit is more important than components, colors, etc. All those things are good to examine after the fit is secured."
And you then go on to laboriously detail the huge multitude of test rides you took in your Arthurian quest for the perfect fit.
Yet after all is said and done you end up stating this - "Summary: The Cervelo fits great and rides beautifully even with a healthy drop, but I think the Tarmac could work too but not positive and it's more affordable"
So what was I saying in my preliminary conclusion, which was preliminary since I went on to detail more thoughts. The Cervelo has a decent amount of saddle-to-bar drop (i.e., not like an 'endurance' bike) but I found it comfortable, which led me to believe that I didn't need an endurance bike, and I was right. But I wasn't quite sure what the best long-term fit would be, so when I rode the Tarmac, despite being lower, I thought it could possibly work as well. In the end I rode the Cervelo a couple more times with different setups, including 15mm of spacers on a 90mm stem and found it to be best, which eventually the fitter magically confirmed without my prompting.
In the end I didn't conflict with my stated intention, which was to buy based on fit. I think fit is really important, which is something I was hoping other readers would hone in on. After more trials I realized that the Tarmac wouldn't have worked as well; the R3 seems to work perfectly in the configuration that I currently have. There are a few other bikes that would have worked equally well, and without spacers too, but the fit here is good and I like the bike.
I'm fortunate to have been able to spend so much time on this; it's a great exercise for anyone who is really curious about all this. Though not an expert, next time I'll be able to more surgically focus on what I'm looking for.
09-13-15, 10:02 AM
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