steine13

When I read that, it made me think of an article I read a few years ago in the NYTimes (I think). I can't find it again; their search engine is lousy.

The author had gone to Spain on a cycling vacation and figured to run into lean mean hammerheads -- this wasn't touring, these were organized rides on some Tour stages, led by a former pro.

He found the hammerheads alright, but he was amazed at how many of them had sizeable bellies as well as great speed. There are basically no heavy runners, and the rest of the article delved into some of the sports medicine aspects. The short and not surprising version was that a bicycle doesn't have any of the up-and-down motion inherent in running, with the wasted effort involved. In the flats, weight is basically irrelevant.

On the weight loss front, I typically gain a pound for every 50 miles ridden on a multi-day tour. It's probably all muscle.
cheers -mathias

I-Like-To-Bike

I put forth that most people would be happier if they could met the goal of being pleased when seeing their overall physical form as it appears in a full length mirror, rather than only meeting an arbitrary number on a scale if they still fail the mirror test.

AlmostTrick

It's probably more likely that this "substantial portion of the population" that you say are unsuccessful at maintaining a healthy weight are not actually following said advice properly, not that it wouldn't work. There are a lot of factors holding people back from making real and lasting change. Likely what you did/do would work for most... if they actually did it.

wphamilton

What you see in the mirror is filtered by what you think should be there. For almost everybody. If that arbitrary number is flattering, that mirror is going to be flattering as well.

"O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see ourselves as others see us!" I submit that the scales are akin to Robert Burn's "some power", and are more representative of how others see us than is that reflection in the mirror.

Danhedonia

I-Like-To-Bike You are not correct - many pursue weight loss and fitness as a means to avoid death and suffering. I am wondering if you are under 30, the magical time in life when people are obsessed with their perceived appeal to their perceived dating pool.

Those who are older and overweight (that would be me) likely have a very different agenda.

livedarklions Race you to the next light pole for a piece of cake?

gregf83 

There's much less variability in metabolism of food than some are suggesting. There is definitely a difference in how food intake satiates hunger and some people have a much easier time controlling their intake. People gain weight because they eat more calories than they burn.

Happy Feet

Yes. The problem is not with the basic principles of weight loss. Once we adjust for physiological differences, it's that people have varying degrees of psychological attachments to food - beyond its purpose as fuel, that makes it easier/harder to follow those principles successfully.

That doesnt make light of those issues. They are real and need to be addressed but they don't invalidate physical reality. Unfortunately, many people avoid looking at that by saying this or that diet didn't work and there is a whole industry willing to sell the notion of an easier, softer way.

Hey, you can still eat as much as you want, have a pound of bacon for breakfast and put a stick of butter in your coffee AND still lose weight.

I exaggerate of course, but surprisingly, not that much for some.

Milton Keynes

Happy Feet

We generally have see how opinions are skewed through the lens of perspective. Sure, on an organized tour of some stages of the TdF, one will see all sorts of body types. During the running of the TdF (the actual endurance event) you will not see any pot bellied overweight athletes. The event favors those who have less weight (but are still well muscled) and the output of energy in such events accounts for a lot of calories consumed. Polar explorers (endurance skiers usually) can expect to burn 10,000 calories a day. It's pretty hard to haul and consume that much food daily for several months.

Even the notion of putting on weight during a multi-day tour needs to be qualified. 500 miles in five days (5 consecutive centuries) will not add 5 pounds of weight. 500 miles over 30 days, stopping at lots of pastrie shops and beer halls probably will.

steine13

>> Hey, you can still eat as much as you want, have a pound of bacon for breakfast and put a stick of butter in your coffee AND still lose weight.

That's a pretty good description of my experience.
Maybe not "lose weight" but it doesn't tack on fat the way sugary foods do.
That sort of diet is great fun for a day or two and then gets old real fast.

Happy Feet

Thats true. Sugars, starches and refined carbohydrates break down very easily and require little energy to do so. Proteins and fats require some of the calories consumed in the metabolic process. Sugars and refined carbs also create bloodsugar spices that set up a whole lot of issues with insulin resistance over time and pre diabetes that effects weight gain.

But it's still a pretty lousy diet. I think downstream, many will have their weight loss rebound and find their mental perception of healthy portion size and choices skewed. You just can't eat all you want of super flavourful food and expect weight control long term.

Sorg67

No form of exercise is good if it is all you do. I cycle, run, walk and strength train. I cycle more than any of the rest since I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and cycling is really good at a strenuous workout with minimal stress on joints.

Exercise is of minimal value for weight loss. It is mostly diet. I generally gain weight when I pick up the pace on my fitness since I am hungry all the time.

I have wondered if long fat burning forms of exercise train the body to want to store fat since you are training it to need fat.

Happy Feet

We have to discern between single incidence occurrences and habitual trends. A single piece of cake or one pound of bacon will not unduly effect anyone, except perhaps brittle diabetics. Another exception being people who struggle with food control issues in which a deviation make create a relapse into unhealthy binge eating.

But many people who habitually tend towards those things probably also make other unhealthy choices which, when taken in combination, add up to poor outcomes. Always having desert, sugar in the coffee, cookies or muffins for breaks, snacks of sweets or chocolate bars, sugary sodas, calorie dense drinks from Starbucks, beer after work everyday... start ticking the boxes and for some consistent trends appear to develop.

That is why a period of accurate calorie counting is useful for some. It allows one to get a better understanding of one side of the equation ie. true calories in

livedarklions

Yeah, no. The biggest thing I learned from my experience was how worthless other people's advice was. Where it was right, it was obvious and I'm not an idiot. Where it wasn't obvious, it was either wrong, contradictory or completely contrary to my experience. You'd be amazed by how many well-meaning people want to talk you out of things that are working for you.

Study after study show that people can't adhere to diets developed by other people or that if they do, the results are usually quite underwhelming. There's a reason there's a weight loss industry --they can keep selling alternative plans because none of them really work.


I maintain a level of activity that really isn't achievable or practical for the vast majority of people my age. I'm happy to tell people what I'm doing, but I'm always clear that I don't give advice.

Happy Feet

I think one thing that happens is that we become better adapted to particular forms of exercise the more we do them and burn less calories as our performance becomes more efficient. It's one arguement for cross training.

Cycling is a great cardio exercise because it is non load bearing and allows entry for those who may have weight, joint, impact issues. So is swimming.

But one needs to push the effort envelope to see cardio gains, especially with multi geared bikes. One can add hill climbing or ride a SS or FG to shake things up or.. as I am now doing, SS/FG hill climbing

Happy Feet

Ha ha! What an excellent philosophy for life.

How that jibes with honest participation in a discussion forum is a curiosity though

FWIW, no one here is trying to talk anyone out of doing anything healthy (except the OP who left long ago). If anything, the thrust is to be more intelligent and fact based in those health choices. Of course, we now realize those concepts are worthless unless they originate from you.

livedarklions

Where you're totally off the beam is where you assume there's a clear line between psychological and physiological. The brain isn't some rational calculator divorced from the body systems it's a part of. The brain and the gut interact in all sorts of ways through multiple pathways that are not particularly well-understood at this point.

I'm always amazed at the level of expertise people on bf seem to think they have on this subject

Happy Feet

No as you've already said, the problem is you think other peoples opinions are worthless. When you start from that POV its pretty hard to find value.

You also read a lot into what people say that isn't true so you can then attempt to discredit. Its pretty transparent.

I did not say there was a clear line between psysio and psycho logical or claim the brain was some sort of rational calculator divorced from the body. Quite the opposite. I said most issues arise not because the formula for weight loss doesn't work but because people struggle with the mental aspect of adopting it. This acknowledges the mind/body philosophy of health care.

Maybe if you had a higher opinion of your fellow man you might find more of them have ideas that are worthwhile to discuss

livedarklions

There's certain subjects where people all seem to think they're experts and feel free to pass judgment on others. I'm pretty convinced your interpretation of those principles are quite worthless, actually. Not because it doesn't originate with me, but because you grossly oversimplify.

I do think people are going to be the best source of information on what will and won't for themselves for the rather obvious reason that they are the only ones actually capable of keeping track of what they're doing and the results. Sorry if that's a radical concept to you.

as to discussion, I'm good with people explaining what works for them, but when they start in on the "all people have to do" and "it's obvious" stuff, it always falls apart into well-meaning gibberish that assumes fat people are weak or stupid.

livedarklions

Nice backpedal on the physiological/psychological dichotomy you posted. You a fixie rider?

We're done here as far as I'm concerned. You're reduced to cartooning my position on this, and I'm not bothering to read any more of it.

I-Like-To-Bike

During a six month work assignment in Afghanistan, I decided to change my diet in order to lose excess pounds. I didn't count calories or miss a meal and took regular portions of food at each meal, but did cut out all pastry , desserts, and sugared/sweetened drinks. Most importantly, I cut out all between meal eating or drinking; no snacks, no chips, no candy, no nothing. My exercise regimen, such as it was (several miles of bicycle riding per day) was less than I was doing previously. Result - I went from 224 lbs to 188 lbs and have managed to keep it off in the 8 years since then.

Sorg67

I find other people’s advice is very often useful even though I rarely follow it. I find the rationale behind the advice is more useful than the advice itself. There is almost always some validity in the rationale behind opinions. Even if the opinion does not follow from the rationale or the opinion is not appropriate for my circumstances, it is often useful to understand the supporting rationale.

Happy Feet

Similar experience. I have an interest in food from an endurance/exploration perspective. When I became a vegetarian 20 years ago I had to become more educated so as to make good food choices that would work in endurance sports. Each year as a thought exercise I conduct experiments to see the effects of different regimes on my body and psyche. Not as weight loss attempts.

Three years ago I ate only eggs for a month which, coincidentally, coincided with a pure keto diet. After that time I began reintegrating my beforehand food items but found I had broken several habits that I decided not to renew. No more sugar in my oatmeal and coffee, cookies and other sugary, carby coffee break items, and high carb meals like pasta and garlic bread.

Weight stabity since then combined with continued work into portion size which for me has been skewed by years of endurance sports where I could eat as much as I wanted without penalty.

Happy Feet

Sure. That's how most intelligent people make decisions. Listen to other peoples experiences, sift through what does or does not apply, and move forward readjusting as issues arise.

One might note that, contrary to one person's view, I have not suggested any particular food items someone should consume - other than in the most general terms. Low sugar, moderate carb (preferably the slow release complex variety if possible). Hardly preaching a particular diet.

If I were to get more specific the first filter one would have to run my ideas through would be that I am a long time vegetarian ( not vegan) so my food choices would be along those lines. From a dietary sense though, I don't think it matters if someone is one way or the other so I don't feel a need to be so specific.

It probably matters more when someone goes to the extreme spectrums of vegan or carnivore diets but, nutritionally speaking, I am not attracted to either as better than a more moderate/general approach.

If I were to offer such advise though, which I don't, I would tell someone my biases up front, as I just did without issue.

raceboy

So you are talking about body acceptance. I'm all for that. I never said what the number should be. My experience is that the scale is amore effective tool for keeping me at at my happy weight than a mirror.