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Factory lube on KMC chain sticky

Old 09-14-15, 09:21 AM
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IrishBrewer
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Factory lube on KMC chain sticky

I know that there have been countless threads on the best lube for chains, however...

I recently replaced my chain with a new KMC 10.93 chain and when I installed it, the factory lube (which many consider to be the best possible lube for the chain) seemed to be rather thick and sticky. I like to run a pretty clean chain and my go-to chain lube is the wax-based White Lightening product.

I decided to just run it with the factory lube for a while but after just a couple of typical road rides (not wet), the chain had already started to pick up a lot of dirt - more than to my liking so I did a couple applications of White Lightning, cleaning with a rag in between applications to get most of the dirt and sticky factory lube off of the surface of the chain.

Like I said, it seems to be conventional wisdom that the factory lube is good stuff but I don't personally care for it too much. I haven't resorted to paraffin waxing just yet but I may give that a try someday. I do some bike commuting so I need something that will hold up and stay clean under varying conditions.
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Old 09-14-15, 09:22 AM
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So? rub a rag with solvent over the chain once it's on.
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Old 09-14-15, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
So? rub a rag with solvent over the chain once it's on.
Yea, wasn't much of a problem - just expected that the new chain would have a "drier" lubricant that would allow it to stay a little cleaner for a while on its own. I used the liquid wax lube so it would still be well protected after I rubbed the factory lube off of the surface.
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Old 09-14-15, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by IrishBrewer
I know that there have been countless threads on the best lube for chains, however...
Countless plus one, now.
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Old 09-14-15, 09:36 AM
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Factory lubed chains are dipped hot 'oil' (there are videos of this in various places like YouTube). When cool the lubricant/rust preventive coating is quite sticky. One can simply dampen a rag with, say, WD40 (mostly solvent) and drag the chain through the rag. This will remove most of the now unneeded layer of lube from the exterior of the chain without affecting lubrication of the moving parts.

The most effective chain lubricant you can currently buy is Chain-L (Home Page Chain-L High Mileage Bicycle Chain Lubricant). It is thick and stays in place for a very long time.

Joe
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Old 09-14-15, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by IrishBrewer
Yea, wasn't much of a problem - just expected that the new chain would have a "drier" lubricant that would allow it to stay a little cleaner for a while on its own. I used the liquid wax lube so it would still be well protected after I rubbed the factory lube off of the surface.
No, the new chain has a thicker lubricant that allows it to sit on the shelf for a really long time without corroding.

Rubbing a liquid wax lube over the outside of the chain accomplishes nothing. The inner roller bits need the lube, not the outer plates.
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Old 09-14-15, 09:49 AM
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I know I don't need any lubrication on the plates, just corrosion protection - I ride in an area that heavily salts the roads in the winter so even when it's not snowy or icy, the water splashing on the chain can be highly corrosive. Mufflers don't last long here.
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Old 09-14-15, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by andr0id
No, the new chain has a thicker lubricant that allows it to sit on the shelf for a really long time without corroding.

Rubbing a liquid wax lube over the outside of the chain accomplishes nothing. The inner roller bits need the lube, not the outer plates.
This.

There's a name for it, but at the moment I can't remember it. It comes on lots of things that would rust in storage. New weapons for one. Is it cosmolene?
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Old 09-14-15, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 2manybikes
This.

There's a name for it, but at the moment I can't remember it. It comes on lots of things that would rust in storage. New weapons for one. Is it cosmolene?
Yes, I know exactly what you are referring to but it's not that. The best way I could describe it is like bar oil for a chainsaw - very tacky.
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Old 09-14-15, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by IrishBrewer
I like to run a pretty clean chain and my go-to chain lube is the wax-based White Lightening product.

I haven't resorted to paraffin waxing just yet but I may give that a try someday.
The above is in direct conflict with the below.

Originally Posted by IrishBrewer
I do some bike commuting so I need something that will hold up... under varying conditions.
Originally Posted by IrishBrewer
I know I don't need any lubrication on the plates, just corrosion protection - I ride in an area that heavily salts the roads in the winter so even when it's not snowy or icy, the water splashing on the chain can be highly corrosive. Mufflers don't last long here.
Wax and wax-based lubes are not the best application for high-salt / high-corrosion environments. A sticky oil is generally the best choice. Corrosion resistance is generally incompatible with a sparkly clean chain, although if you lube your chain frequently enough, even a wax-based lube protocol will be better than the usual neglect regime most riders use...
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Old 09-14-15, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Minton
Factory lubed chains are dipped hot 'oil' (there are videos of this in various places like YouTube). When cool the lubricant/rust preventive coating is quite sticky. One can simply dampen a rag with, say, WD40 (mostly solvent) and drag the chain through the rag. This will remove most of the now unneeded layer of lube from the exterior of the chain without affecting lubrication of the moving parts.

The most effective chain lubricant you can currently buy is Chain-L (Home Page Chain-L High Mileage Bicycle Chain Lubricant). It is thick and stays in place for a very long time.

Joe
No, the original lubrication on a chain isn't an "oil". It is a wax but a particularly soft one. It's more similar to Vaseline than to oil although both belong in the same class of organic compounds.

As for one lubricant being better than another, there is lots of disagreement on that point...hence the infinity +1 threads on chain lubrication.

Originally Posted by andr0id
No, the new chain has a thicker lubricant that allows it to sit on the shelf for a really long time without corroding.

Rubbing a liquid wax lube over the outside of the chain accomplishes nothing. The inner roller bits need the lube, not the outer plates.
You are misunderstanding what Irishbrewer is doing. He removed the outer wax on the chain but I doubt that he just "rubbed" liquid wax lubricant over the outside of the chain. Any wax lubricant...or even most wet lubricants...have a solvent that is used to penetrate into the chain and remove the old lubricant while leaving behind fresh lubricant. Of course simply dripping on a sovlent with new lubricant does nothing to force the old lube out and simply mixes with the new stuff while leaving some of the old stuff still there.
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Old 09-14-15, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx
Wax and wax-based lubes are not the best application for high-salt / high-corrosion environments. A sticky oil is generally the best choice. Corrosion resistance is generally incompatible with a sparkly clean chain, although if you lube your chain frequently enough, even a wax-based lube protocol will be better than the usual neglect regime most riders use...
There is no reason that a proper wax based lubricant wouldn't be just as adequate as a "sticky" oil. A wax lube should "stick" better than an oil since the viscosity...i.e. "stickiness"...is better than oil.

Now least mtnbke comes along and starts calling me an idiot again, a wax lubricant like White Lightning's "Clean Ride" might not be the best choice. Epic or Wet Ride might be better. That said, I've used the original Clean Ride for all of my bikes in all kinds of weather for around 15 years and never had problems.
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Old 09-14-15, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
There is no reason that a proper wax based lubricant wouldn't be just as adequate as a "sticky" oil. A wax lube should "stick" better than an oil since the viscosity...i.e. "stickiness"...is better than oil.

Now least mtnbke comes along and starts calling me an idiot again, a wax lubricant like White Lightning's "Clean Ride" might not be the best choice. Epic or Wet Ride might be better. That said, I've used the original Clean Ride for all of my bikes in all kinds of weather for around 15 years and never had problems.
I've not had good luck with wax-based lubes or hot wax dipping in coastal New England, with ocean salt in the air and where they mercilessly salt the roads in winter. Constant battle against rust. Heavy, sticky oil seems to work best for me, but I'm slightly negligent when it comes to regular chain lube maintenance...
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Old 09-14-15, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
No, the original lubrication on a chain isn't an "oil". It is a wax but a particularly soft one. It's more similar to Vaseline than to oil although both belong in the same class of organic compounds.
Shimano's factory lube is a grease. Never heard of any manufacturers waxing their chains at the factory.
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Old 09-14-15, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx
I've not had good luck with wax-based lubes or hot wax dipping in coastal New England, with ocean salt in the air and where they mercilessly salt the roads in winter. Constant battle against rust. Heavy, sticky oil seems to work best for me, but I'm slightly negligent when it comes to regular chain lube maintenance...
Everyone in all states is using more salt on the roads. 20 years ago, when my father was plowing snow on Colorado passes, they used sand with about 20% salt. Now they use liquid deicers and they use the liquid deicers more heavily in cities here. My bikes are crusted with salt after a winter ride but I still use wax based lubricants without problems. You can use what you wish but the wax based lubricants work very well for me during the winter.

My only problem with them is applying them. They don't go on easily when it is cold since the solution is saturated and tends to precipitate when it hits a cold chain. That's not a huge problem for me since I keep my bike inside at work and just lubricant when it needs it there.

Originally Posted by dr_lha
Shimano's factory lube is a grease. Never heard of any manufacturers waxing their chains at the factory.
You need to learn the difference between grease and wax. Grease is a mixture of an oil with surfactants that emulsify the oil and keep it semisolid. A wax is a longer chain molecule of the same kind as the oil but because of it's longer chain length and higher molecular weight is a semisolid. Both feel "greasy" but for very different reasons. At higher molecular weight, a wax can be come "hard" which is what most people would call "paraffin" although that name can be applied to the soft waxes as well.

I've handled chains from all kinds of manufacturers and they all use similar stuff. It's not "grease" but a soft wax. "Grease" isn't easy to apply hot. Wax is. Shimano's representatives may have called the lubricant "grease" in some articles but if you were to talk to their chemist, they would call it wax.
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Old 09-14-15, 07:23 PM
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The KMC lube feels much more like a grease to me. It sticks to the metal like Phil'so tenacious oil and has the same feel as this oil. Not a waxy feel at all. When I think of a wax, I think of something that is slick but doesn't stick to your hands or dirt particles which is why it is more desirable in this application.
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Old 09-14-15, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
I've handled chains from all kinds of manufacturers and they all use similar stuff. It's not "grease" but a soft wax. "Grease" isn't easy to apply hot. Wax is. Shimano's representatives may have called the lubricant "grease" in some articles but if you were to talk to their chemist, they would call it wax.
Nice words as usual from you cycocommute. Care to back them up with any citations to actual facts that prove what you're saying?

FYI Sheldon Brown called it grease too.
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Old 09-14-15, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by IrishBrewer
The KMC lube feels much more like a grease to me. It sticks to the metal like Phil'so tenacious oil and has the same feel as this oil. Not a waxy feel at all. When I think of a wax, I think of something that is slick but doesn't stick to your hands or dirt particles which is why it is more desirable in this application.
You are thinking of hard wax, like candle wax, which is what most people think of when someone says "wax". But think more of Vaseline which is not a grease at all but a soft wax.

I have tried waxing chains in the past and never found it to be effective. That may have been because I used candle wax which is just too hard to stick to the chain. A soft wax does would penetrate better and stay on better. White Lightning actually uses soft wax and harder waxes in their mixtures. The Wet Ride formulation uses the most of the soft wax.
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Old 09-14-15, 08:40 PM
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There are many items in our world that are referred as one term but technically are something else. The other example that I think of is "sealed bearings" as opposed to "preassembled cartridge bearings". Another is the tires that most of ride being called clincher instead of wired on. I suspect that 99% of readers never handled a real clincher. Andy.
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Old 09-14-15, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
There are many items in our world that are referred as one term but technically are something else. The other example that I think of is "sealed bearings" as opposed to "preassembled cartridge bearings". Another is the tires that most of ride being called clincher instead of wired on. I suspect that 99% of readers never handled a real clincher. Andy.
You don't know the half of it. Everyone calls the alcohol they drink "alcohol" but there are somewhere around 100,000 compounds that have the functional group that makes an "alcohol". Sucrose is what most people call "sugar" but carbohydrates can be refered to as "sugar".

The most galling to me, however, is the term "salt". "Salt" that you use on your table is only one "salt". A salt is an ionic compound that results from the reaction between an acid and a base. Baking soda (not the correct name) is a salt. Baking powder is a mixture of a couple of different salts. The wall board you have in your house is made from a salt. If you have cement products in your house, that's a salt. There are, again, hundreds of thousands of "salts" in the world.

Gleitmo made by Fuchs is the material used by Sram (and possibly others) as the original chain lubricant.
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Old 09-14-15, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by IrishBrewer
Yes, I know exactly what you are referring to but it's not that. The best way I could describe it is like bar oil for a chainsaw - very tacky.
Incidentally, I have some bar oil, and decided to give it a try on my bike last winter. Not for the chain, but as a coating on any exposed steel surface that I could find, kept in a tin can and applied with a little brush. That stuff is sticky as hell, and picked up a lot of black dust, but the parts that I coated remained rust free. I plan to do it again. The bits that I overlooked -- rusted.
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Old 09-15-15, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by IrishBrewer
Like I said, it seems to be conventional wisdom that the factory lube is good stuff but I don't personally care for it too much.
I don't much care for it either. You've got to work at getting it off the outside of the chain. Usually these days I wet a rag in solvent and wipe down the chain. Takes a fair bit of time. Helps to be generous w/the solvent. Easier to wipe the chain clean before putting it onto the bike.

If using White Lightening like the OP, then I'd soak the chain in solvent to strip off all the existing lube and start fresh with the White Lightening.
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Old 09-15-15, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C
Incidentally, I have some bar oil, and decided to give it a try on my bike last winter. Not for the chain, but as a coating on any exposed steel surface that I could find, kept in a tin can and applied with a little brush. That stuff is sticky as hell, and picked up a lot of black dust, but the parts that I coated remained rust free. I plan to do it again. The bits that I overlooked -- rusted.
Have you ever tried Lucas Oil Heavy Duty oil stabilizer? Now that stuff really sticks to metal. I thought I might try mixing some of that with mineral spirits for a good winter lube.
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Old 09-15-15, 06:56 AM
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Some people swear by the factory lube based on comments by Sheldon Brown, but I've found that on both SRAM and KMC chains, the factory lube attracts grit and grime like a magnet. I clean my new chains in mineral spirits and then lube with either Dupont Multi-Use Teflon lube or WD40 Bike Dry Lube. I have to say, that the WD40 dry isn't all that dry and doesn't leave my chains any cleaner than the Dupont Multi-Use that I use in wet or winter conditions. I'm interested in Dupont's new dry film Teflon lubricant and will give it a try soon.
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Old 09-15-15, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Gleitmo made by Fuchs is the material used by Sram (and possibly others) as the original chain lubricant.
Yup, and Gleitmo is a grease, not wax.

I believe that in the old days new chains may have been pre-packed in Cosmoline, which is a oil/wax combo, but I don't think anyone uses that any more.

BTW I enjoyed your rant about what a salt is. You should try Swedish Salty Licorice, that would blow your mind, the salt is Ammonium Chloride!
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