Daniel4

Has anybody ridden through fresh snow on an e-bike? The biggest problem with peddling is getting rolling momentum to continue peddling. So imagine if the electric motor can keep the wheel turning, going through the snow might not be as big a problem as trying to peddle.

DrkAngel

[h=1]See - Forum: Winter Cycling[/h]

Daniel4

I did. I won't go into the details of my search but before starting this thread I thought somebody was sure to tell me to search in the Electric Bikes forum if I had posted in the Winter Cycling forum.

fietsbob

Battery performance is always reduced when the Battery Is Cold.

No I Have not ... I have a Studded tire Mountain Bike .. Lower gear starts and upshifting as the speed increases is 2nd Nature .



You are Welcome to Go Ahead and Try it yourself, with out prior testers having done things for you, to make you feel less adventurous ..

Daniel4

Thanks for the reply. I don't have an e-bike either. I also have a mountain bike with studded tires. I couldn't any rolling momentum going or even the peddle to turn in fresh 5cm snow.

powell

Hi Daniel
It is completely understandable that you ask about winter riding on ebike forum, you want to know about winter electric bicycle riding not reg bicycle.
From my location you can see I experience quite brutal winters here in Alberta, that's despite climate warming which Alberta contributes so much to through its environmental crimes - tar sands.
But I ride Tidal Force /DD hub, throttle only/ in winter - legend designed and made in USA /originally on order from US Army/. It is 7-phase silky smooth , sinus PWM controller edrive.
On actual winter riding/tried PAS sensor Bionx also/ :
I found that throttle allows me to quietly travers slippery patches while PAS pedalling can cause bike to rock.
Riding TF through deep 30cm/around 1 foot/ snow is not a problem. TF control alogarythm is set up so on demand for torque TF reacts by drawing more power trying to maintain speed. It is quite an experience when I "plow" through deep snow with slow pedalling.
If it comes to winter commuting number one for me is
RELIABILITY
example
When I there riding in minus 15C the last thing I need is to stop and push back shoddy, cheap crap connectors /like powerpoles/
or tighten loose screws because they are shoddy.

To give you idea of USA-designed quality look at the pictures of TF after over 24,000kms of riding in snow, rain, salt,
, in contrast, can you imagine how run-off-the mill cheap hub motor would look like after 24000 km plus in winter conditions??
the ONLY hub ebike drive I can recommend right now is FALCO /5 years warranty!!!/ designed by the same USA laboratories as Tidal Force.

?

DrkAngel

OK ... I guess ...
You want thin studded tires for cutting through snow and getting traction on road or ground.
Big - wide knobby tires for riding on top of packed snow.

There is the option, for loose snow - off road, of a front ski replacing wheel.
This packs snow enough that a wide knobby rear tire finds some purchase.
Snowmobile type ski seems to work best.

Not good enough?
Add a rear boogie wheel behind the rear wheel and run a track around ... effectively creating a snowmobile.

DrkAngel

Mid drive add on kit would make this an impressive snow machine



]

Burton

Myself and several other people here in Montreal drive ebikes late into the winter and a couple drive all winter.
A torque sensor such as is found on the Bionx system or a front wheel drive work best because an ebike motor puts out more torque than a person can and throttle response or a pedal assist sensor isn't precise enough to keep the rear wheel from spinning out on anything except bare asphalt.

Of course battery life sucks in cold weather but the main reason I don't use an ebike all winter is because changing tires on the rear is a real nuisance and studded tires are indispensible here. The main advantage of an ebike anytime is a higher average speed and in slippery conditions speed is NOT your friend. So a regular mtb with studded tires and a bit of patience work better for me.

powell

on high quality DD gearless edrives like FALCO throttle response is very linear , predictable and precise so maybe you are talking about those cheap on/off type of response found of cheap kits. it depends what edrive throttle you talk about? the one with 3 LEDs? There are primitive, bad design.
miro13car

Burton

I'm sure everyone thinks that what they're driving is the best thing since sliced bread. You're entitled to your opinion.

It doesn't change the fact that it's still battery powered and still only has two wheels. There isn't an existing battery technology on the market that isn't affected by low temperatures. It's also no coincidence that 2 wheeled scooters and motorcycles get put away for the winter - electric or gas driven. Control and stability are severely compromised.

its also a mistake to generalize - Bionx makes some well recognized gearless motors too - so do a bunch of Chinese companies producing much lower quality motors. In case you're unaware - that throttle that you think is such a problem solver is an option on a lot of FALCO models.

Kopsis

This is really more of a motor controller issue than a throttle issue. On basic brushless controllers, the throttle input is used to set a desired speed. The controller will dump full current into the motor until that speed is reached. A system that lets you control power (current) is preferable in low traction conditions. This type of operation tends to be standard in torque sensing variable assist systems but there are also controllers that allow a conventional throttle control input to manage power rather than speed.

andersson121

Well, Electric bike is an exiting concept to be honest but the paddeling issue is something which cause headech, also somestimes battery problem occours.

powell

exactely Kopsis.
How throttle input is implemented into ebike drive makes all the difference and has to do with type of controllers used.
As you said on basic /just say cheap/ controllers they dump power in response to throttle input until speed is reached.
On such systems you are basically jerked on/off and it also contribute to Whours of energy wasted as you constantly overapply throttle and back up over and over again meaning throttle is not even close to linear.

Ch00paKabrA

Yup, I like riding in the snow. Just went out today and it was a hoot. It has to be really cold to affect your battery to any great degree. It was 27 when I was riding and there was no discernible difference in my battery's performance. If it was 27 below, well, that is a different story.

Bottom line... Its a blast go for it!!



This is gonna need to be washed though.

heywood

Battery issues, cleaning gears, salt..whole bunch of reasons i keep mine in the bedroom over the winter.. i've got a IHG bike for winter conditions..when temps drop below -6 it's public transit or hibernation.. not fun at those temp..

powell

Heywood,
on my winter ride no battery issues, just a bit of performance drop, but I power my TF on A123 20Ah 12S cells and they really perform.
I ride in minus 10C regularly with almost zero issues. But again my TF is really build to withstand weather elements,
to last , not cheap of course.

chas58

just be careful going fast in slippery conditions. I'm thinking of getting some hakkapeliitta snow tires
Studded Bicycle Tires

powell

I think everybody has different winter route condition.
Where I ride 99% of the time snow is cleared off the path in 24 hours after snowfall, of course icy patches here and there occasionally.
But this not justify installing studed tires, riding them on asphalt and concrete does not make sense.

robbie_d

Hi all,

It's 2020 and winter is coming. I want to ride a fat tire ebike 500Watts and with as many volts and amp hours as possible (i think). I am very experienced in winter conditions on a mountain bike without studded tires.
I am thinking about hydraulic brakes. I need to know what else i should be thinking about. I live in downtown Montreal and winters get messy here. I hear many different opinions about ebikes for city winter usage.
I need a real weather-proof fat ebike. Any suggestions?

Could i buy the Daymak fat ebike (20" wheels) that Walmart sells online for like CDN $1600.00 and use that, or should i invest in a much better ebike. Are there ebikes designed for winter use?

With a chain or chainless?

What are the pros and cons when using 20" or larger wheels in city winter conditions?

I live on the second floor and might have to carry it upstairs.

I am tired of sweating in the cold.

chas58

robbie_d found an old thread here!

I did get some hakkapeliitta studded snow tires. Friggen amazing.
I kinda hate snow tires on a pedal bike, because they have so much drag, my speed feels like is is about 1/2 of my summer road bike norms.

But, on an ebike - that goes away. I do most of my ebiking in the winter because I can maintain my summer speeds with 700 heavy studds on my tires and no real negative impact.

I don't really have any problem. Just be aware that snow will get everywhere it can, and when it melts, it turns to water (quelle surprise!). So, I guess waterproofing could be an issue. My biggest problem is keeping the iron parts (i.e. chain) from rusting on the bike. That and of course some of the cables don't like to be pulled in the winter (gear changes can get cranky).

Larger diameter tires are going to do better going over the bumps and ruts that are normal in winter biking.

Snowy ebike riding is kinda fun!

robbie_d

Hi Chas,
Yea, i came to this thread to avoid opening a new one on the same topic (which i think i did already but with no response), so responding to an existing thread brought me a response.

YES! Tires. Important.

By the way, i bought a DYAD Banana Boss Ebike, 8 days ago. It has an
- IP65 weatherproof rating,
- 500 watts Bafang rear hub motor (Canadian maximum),
- The battery and controller are under the seat 48 Volt, 17.5 aH,
- Great headlight that can be adjusted,
- There is a rear red-light built-in to the battery that comes on when the headlight is activated,
- 20X4 inch wheels. (This bike comes only with smooth summer tires)
- Motorcycle-sized long-seat and two foot-pegs (the front of the seat, closest to the handle-bars, is lower to the ground than the rest of the seat. I have 29" long legs and when i sit way up front on the seat, both feet comfortable touch the ground while sitting.
- Hydraulic disc brakes (mineral oil),
- 5-level peddle assist with an attached (ringing) bell (The website says a 9-speed PA is optional),
- 7-speed gears,
- Shocks on the front forks (no rear shocks),
- Full rear-fender which is great,
- Half-sized front-fender that drenches me, from the waist down, when the streets are wet (when it rains) because the water shoots off the top of the fender and gets sprayed back onto me.
**The warranty is transferrable. I contacted the store and transferred the purchase to my name.

I bought it second hand, and it came with a
- Back rack,
- Mirror,
- Abus chain lock,
- Some sort of thing which i think is used to attach a phone to the handlebars.
- The previous owner had, also, bought a second battery 48V, 17.5 aH. So, that means i have two batteries.

I bought it from my neighbour across the street from me.
He bought it on Aug 20 2020, so he could do delivery for Uber - but they banned him (for some undisclosed reason).
- It's only two months old. and still under warranty for two years (basically).

I had to change a brake pad and that was about CAD $28 with taxes in.

My neighbour paid just over $4000.00 (taxes in) for the bike (as listed here) and he asked me for only $2500.00. So, i really couldn't refuse.

I made a corrugated-cardboard, temporary, template for a wind-shield. I will try it out when it rains next time to see if it's large enough to stop the water backsplash from the front wheel.
When i decide on the right height and width, i will use the template to cut some thin plexiglass and slide the Plexiglass in behind the light and drill some holes for some velcro to attach it to the handlebars and the forks.

The winter tires (Kenda, i think they will be) are going to cost me CAD $85.00 each.

The studded tire link you posted doesn't work, by the way.

robbie_d

I have a DYAD Banana Boss Ebike.
To see the bike go to triple w dyadcycles dot com and look for the Banana Boss.

I am wondering how i can insulate the battery-area to prolong the charge in cold temperatures.
The battery, itself, slides snuggly into a "wall-less box-structure" located under the seat.
I don't think i can wrap anything around the battery itself. I can wrap something around the frame (top, bottom and the four sides) where the battery is.
I am thinking of placing some feet/mitten warmers into the insulated compartment, somehow, to keep the battery warm.

Does anyone have any suggestions, ideas or advice?
Could anything go wrong?

Thanks

chas58

Well, I'd make sure it stays dry - sounds like you are building a fender.

I don't really worry about cold when riding - the batteries generate their own heat when operating. You don't want the battery to freeze and lower states of discharge, or it may never charge again. I don't think insulation will help - that only works to keep any heat being generated from dissipating. But if its just sitting for long periods at low temperature there is no heat to retain.

(that like I posted almost 6 years ago is, yeah, out of date. ;-)

gsa103

During riding the battery should keep itself warm. Maybe a little bit of wind blocking around it is all you need. With that amount of drag, it'll have no trouble generating enough heat to stay warm, while you're riding. Leaving it outside for 8hr, there's no way to keep it warm enough, bring the bike (or at least the battery) indoors. Or at a minimum into a space above freezing.