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Which would you choose?

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Which would you choose?

Old 05-24-17, 03:38 PM
  #26  
merlinextraligh
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We've run 28mm Continental GP 4000s on our tandem with Dura Ace Calipers with no issues.


And the 28 stands for 28mm wide, although I do understand the actual width can vary.


The "C" in the equation modifies the 700, not the 28, and refers to the fact that the tires are made for 700c rims.


The tire is desiginated 700c 28mm, although admittedly the 28mm is a nominal measurement that does vary by manufacturer, and rim width.


The problem on your Domane may be that it uses Trek's calipers not Shimano
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Old 05-24-17, 03:44 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by dksix View Post
What testing has been done with disc vs caliper brakes in a wind tunnel for drag? Legitimate question and I have no intent to engage in this debate with you again. 2 years more riding experience now and I have to think I pretty much agree with you on this matter now.


There has been some, you can google it.


The difference is getting better, and I think one Specialized bike claims almost no difference.


But if the whole purpose of this endeavor is to be able to use carbon rims, the aero advantage of carbon rims over a decently aero aluminum rim is going to be pretty small, so anything you give back on the disc is likely to make it a wash.


I'm not arguing that aero drag is a major reason not to runs discs, I'm just questioning what you're accomplishing if the purpose of running discs is to allow you to use CF rims.
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Old 05-24-17, 04:17 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
There has been some, you can google it.


The difference is getting better, and I think one Specialized bike claims almost no difference.


But if the whole purpose of this endeavor is to be able to use carbon rims, the aero advantage of carbon rims over a decently aero aluminum rim is going to be pretty small, so anything you give back on the disc is likely to make it a wash.


I'm not arguing that aero drag is a major reason not to runs discs, I'm just questioning what you're accomplishing if the purpose of running discs is to allow you to use CF rims.
Your word is good about the areo tests.

I don't have any issues with caliper brakes on my CF rims and still would prefer to prefer disc brakes but not for the additional cost and weight that hydraulic systems command.

Granted, I'm not fast and only get caught out in the rain occasionally.
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Old 05-24-17, 04:24 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by SkepticalOne View Post
Note I said 28c tires - not 28mm.
"28c" is gibberish shorthand for "700x28c" which is gibberish shorthand for 700c x 28mm, AKA a 700c tire that is 28mm wide. That is, a tire with a bead seat diameter of 622mm that inflates to 28mm wide. In a sane world, we would label such a tire something like 28 - 622.

Sometimes a "28c" tire won't inflate to exactly 28mm; different tires end up measuring slightly differently, and the rim width also affects inflated width.
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Old 05-24-17, 05:16 PM
  #30  
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Count me as a disc fan. My Roubaix came with the brand new eTap Hydro and the braking is incredible. The amount of control/modulation blows away any rim brakes I've ever used, though you have to be careful because it can literally throw you over the handlebars. For me the weight penalty was worth it, it only weighs about a half pound more than the eTap rim brake groupset.

My buddy was doing a long descent in Moab a few years ago and his CF rim brakes literally blew up his tire and he had a huge accident and was lucky he didn't die. That's an extreme example, but if you do mountain rides/descents then I feel discs are way, way safer with CF wheels. They're probably overkill if you live in Kansas or something.

Also your tire options are immense. I've got 28s on right now that really measure 30, and I could easily fit 34's or maybe bigger on this bike.
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Old 05-24-17, 05:35 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by elledgedmd View Post
you have to be careful because it can literally throw you over the handlebars.

and his CF rim brakes literally blew up his tire and he had a huge accident and was lucky he didn't die.
TL;DR

Carson Fidre clenchers = you could ded
Hydrolic enhanced brakers = you could ded


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Old 05-24-17, 05:39 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by elledgedmd View Post
Also your tire options are immense. I've got 28s on right now that really measure 30, and I could easily fit 34's or maybe bigger on this bike.
I've got a bike with rim brakes, 53mm tires, and full-length fenders running below the brakes with well over a centimeter of clearance over the tires.
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Old 05-24-17, 05:57 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
I've got a bike with rim brakes, 53mm tires, and full-length fenders running below the brakes with well over a centimeter of clearance over the tires.
Sshhhhhh. Those are called "Mountaning Bikes".
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Old 05-24-17, 05:57 PM
  #34  
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A vote here for disc brakes. My two newest bikes have them Aerodynamic drag and the bike weighing slightly more is not hindering my performance/enjoyment of cycling at all. Plenty of other things are but not those.
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Old 05-24-17, 06:05 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
We've run 28mm Continental GP 4000s on our tandem with Dura Ace Calipers with no issues.


And the 28 stands for 28mm wide, although I do understand the actual width can vary.


The "C" in the equation modifies the 700, not the 28, and refers to the fact that the tires are made for 700c rims.


The tire is desiginated 700c 28mm, although admittedly the 28mm is a nominal measurement that does vary by manufacturer, and rim width.


The problem on your Domane may be that it uses Trek's calipers not Shimano
Not a problem at all...see my original comment...I choose disc because of the wider range of options...I ride 32c on my OEM rims for gravel riding.
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Old 05-24-17, 06:07 PM
  #36  
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The OP asked a simple question. My answer is to go with calipers on a road bike.
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Old 05-24-17, 06:08 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
The OP asked a simple question.
No such thing in the 41.
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Old 05-24-17, 06:52 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by SkepticalOne View Post
Actually, no.

Note I said 28c tires - not 28mm. 28c Continental GP4000IIs measure 30mm...Schwalbe Pro Ones measure 31.7mm.

I originally bought the direct-mount caliper of the Domane SLR. I needed to use the barrel adjusters to get anywhere close to clearing the tire through the caliper for quick wheel removal (note my original comment re: wheel removal). It was on this basis that I switched out to a disc version. I transport my bike regularly with the wheels removed. Discs free me up from all of the hassle of clearance issues.

Um yes!



Even 700 x 30!



Lots of factors come into play as to what tires fit a bike.
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Old 05-24-17, 07:00 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by dksix View Post
Can everything but weight be equal now? Last I considered a disc road bike price was very different between disc and caliper brakes. I'd be surprised to be able to buy a both an Ultegra caliper and Ultegra disc bikes for the same price. I would have expect that to be upwards of a $500 difference.
With some bikes it can, which surprised me as well. The MSRP on both the Tarmac Comps, disc and rim, is $3000. The weight difference is noticeable picking the bikes up as well but likely would be less so if they both had the "same" wheelset. That may be where they cut some cost on the disc, spec'ing it with the Axis wheels and the rim with DT Swiss wheels? Everything else on the bikes is the same though, except the colors available.
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Old 05-24-17, 07:10 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
Um yes!

[IMG]http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/163655075.jpg[IMG]

Even 700 x 30!

[IMG]http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/164433373.jpg[IMG]

Lots of factors come into play as to what tires fit a bike.
Ha! I love the vigilance with which these forums defend sacred ground of caliper brakes! Posting in these forums is like swimming with sharks

I chose a specific frame, I opted for the caliper version - Domane SLR - caliper. After riding it for 3 weeks and struggling with clearance offered when removing wheels for easy transport, I chose to upgrade to a disc version. And so, unlike may of the vigilant caliper die-hards that turn innocuous threads into flame-wars, I own both, ride both, and have weighed the merits of each in a real-life decision analysis, ultimately putting my money where my mouth is.

And to the OP's original query, I prefer the aesthetic of my disc Domane to my caliper Domane 4.5 for reasons previously provided.
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Old 05-24-17, 07:16 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by SkepticalOne View Post
Ha! I love the vigilance with which these forums defend sacred ground of caliper brakes! Posting in these forums is like swimming with sharks

I chose a specific frame, I opted for the caliper version - Domane SLR - caliper. After riding it for 3 weeks and struggling with clearance offered when removing wheels for easy transport, I chose to upgrade to a disc version. And so, unlike may of the vigilant caliper die-hards that turn innocuous threads into flame-wars, I own both, ride both, and have weighed the merits of each in a real-life decision analysis, ultimately putting my money where my mouth is.

And to the OP's original query, I prefer the aesthetic of my disc Domane to my caliper Domane 4.5 for reasons previously provided.
LOL, has nothing to do with defending caliper brakes. Just a simple correction of bad information is all. Use what ya want. But just to make you feel better I go the extreme and point out I'm even running 42mm tires with caliper brakes, so there, LOL!!
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Old 05-24-17, 07:27 PM
  #42  
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Unless I really needed discs for some application, I'd go caliper. I know caliper. It works. I know it works. Changing wheels is easy. All my existing wheels (of the right dropout spacing and gear type) work. I do not need another standard!

Ben
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Old 05-24-17, 07:45 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
LOL, has nothing to do with defending caliper brakes. Just a simple correction of bad information is all. Use what ya want. But just to make you feel better I go the extreme and point out I'm even running 42mm tires with caliper brakes, so there, LOL!!
What bad info? I parlayed my specific experience...the issue is not fundamental clearance once installed, but the clearance of the caliper to enable the tire to pass through on each install/uninstall. Once the caliper is tensioned for a particular rim width, the amount of incremental clearance provided by the release lever provides a restriction on wider tires when trying to remove wheels for transport, as experienced by yours truly.
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Old 05-24-17, 08:49 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by dksix View Post
Can everything but weight be equal now? Last I considered a disc road bike price was very different between disc and caliper brakes. I'd be surprised to be able to buy a both an Ultegra caliper and Ultegra disc bikes for the same price. I would have expect that to be upwards of a $500 difference.
The Pinarello GAN models to which I alluded in my OP are sold at the same pricepoint. I can get full Ultegra with caliper brakes on a variant with their "T700" carbon fiber, or an almost identically-outfitted one with disc brakes, but with their slightly heavier "T600" carbon fiber frame (the brakes and wheels might also be adding a little of the extra weight - other components are identical).
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Old 05-24-17, 09:00 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by SkepticalOne View Post
What bad info?
Depending on how someone combs through the thread, it could look like your "actually, no" comment was claiming that caliper brakes in general can't clear 28mm tires very well.
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Old 05-24-17, 09:15 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by travelerman View Post
The Pinarello GAN models to which I alluded in my OP are sold at the same pricepoint. I can get full Ultegra with caliper brakes on a variant with their "T700" carbon fiber, or an almost identically-outfitted one with disc brakes, but with their slightly heavier "T600" carbon fiber frame (the brakes and wheels might also be adding a little of the extra weight - other components are identical).
I often carry 2 water bottles on rides I know will be less than 2 hours........If the only difference is truly 1.5 pounds I'd go hydro disc
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Old 05-25-17, 01:21 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
Depending on how someone combs through the thread, it could look like your "actually, no" comment was claiming that caliper brakes in general can't clear 28mm tires very well.
Not my assertion at all...for example, the Caliper version of the Domane that I trialed came with OEM 28C tires - They absolute fit within both the frame and the caliper.

As per my original post, not only did I need to open/release the caliper, but I needed to exhaust the full extent of barrel adjusters in order for that particular tire to clear the caliper upon removal. For other 28c tires with wider profile, namely the GP4000IIs and the Schwalbe Pro One, the issue was even greater.

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Old 05-25-17, 01:40 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by SkepticalOne View Post
Not my assertion at all...
Yes, but if someone just read that post and the post before it, without connecting it to previous posts, it vaguely looks like that.
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Old 05-25-17, 06:34 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
Depending on how someone combs through the thread, it could look like your "actually, no" comment was claiming that caliper brakes in general can't clear 28mm tires very well.
Yep, that's how I saw it and the only reason I said anything. Personally I could care less what brakes someone uses.
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Old 05-25-17, 07:39 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Unless you're planning on running tires wider than 28mm, caliper setup every day.

Modern road calipers stop just fine, and 1.5lbs is a lot of weight.

If you're going to use the bike on dirt/gravel roads, or are doing loaded touring and want wider than 28mm tires, then discs become a viable option.
Well said, I have 2 bikes, one with hydraulic discs and one with rim brakes. There isn't much of a difference on the road.
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