Stay away from turning trucks and busses.
#26
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Just make sure when you "take the lane" that you're not hidden in front of a humongous hood, or didn't sneak around the side of the vehicle to get in front of it.
When I'm in the middle of a long line of traffic, I like to be near the right rear quarter panel of the car in front of me. About where the exhaust pipe exits out
So, if a car doesn't stop from behind, I won't be sandwiched between the two vehicles.
I also tend to take left corners wide so that a car could safely get around me while in the corner if they desire.
When I'm in the middle of a long line of traffic, I like to be near the right rear quarter panel of the car in front of me. About where the exhaust pipe exits out
So, if a car doesn't stop from behind, I won't be sandwiched between the two vehicles.
I also tend to take left corners wide so that a car could safely get around me while in the corner if they desire.
Last edited by Chris516; 09-10-15 at 05:49 PM.
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The lack of a sign, on the back of a load. Was side note regarding the blind spots, when riding behind a rig.
Being hidden by a humongous hood is always a concern. So, I try to make sure, that I am far enough in front of a truck driver, that they can see. Gauging it on either a Kenworth 'convential' tractor(engine is in front of cab), or a Peterbuilt 'cabover'(engine under cab). I stay near the left quarter-panel. Because, The right quarter-panel is where cyclists' will either be expected and/or, demanded they be. By being on the left, it keeps a cyclist from being sandwiched between a vehicle, and the side of the lane. In terms of passing in a corner. Unless the lane is wide enough, I don't let a vehicle pass me in a corner. I feel it is too risky.
Being hidden by a humongous hood is always a concern. So, I try to make sure, that I am far enough in front of a truck driver, that they can see. Gauging it on either a Kenworth 'convential' tractor(engine is in front of cab), or a Peterbuilt 'cabover'(engine under cab). I stay near the left quarter-panel. Because, The right quarter-panel is where cyclists' will either be expected and/or, demanded they be. By being on the left, it keeps a cyclist from being sandwiched between a vehicle, and the side of the lane. In terms of passing in a corner. Unless the lane is wide enough, I don't let a vehicle pass me in a corner. I feel it is too risky.
Not sure how you "don't let" someone pass you as a determined person will do so, like it or not.
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Just like the "professional" operator who says all your lanes are belong to us.
So just how do I keep a truck from right hooking me?
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 09-10-15 at 07:16 PM.
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I don't let someone pass, where their passing would be on a two-lane road w/o standard-width lanes, and a blind hill, and/or blind curve. The blind curve also applies to a four-lane road.
I will change my lane position. To visually let them know. To not try passing.
You keep a truck(or any other vehicle for that matter) from right-hooking you. By taking the left-tire track or farther. When you are closer to the traffic light/stop sign.
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As with all things related to road usage, obey the law, maintain situational awareness, exercise common sense, practice mutual cooperation, and mitigate the failures of others.
As you're here talking about it, I figure its safe to assume you've already figured that out for yourself?
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This is how it looks today. How could anyone possibly think this is safe? Only a matter of time before someone else is killed here.
Last edited by PatrickGSR94; 09-10-15 at 10:27 PM.
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As someone who has driven large vehicles, I have a hard time assigning much blame to the driver of a rig when someone gets caught next to it. You couldn't pay me enough money to ride beside a large truck that was moving. It astounds me that anyone does; apparently people do not have any idea what the view is like from the cab of a big truck, and/or don't pay attention to what a truck does when it turns.
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Its a false premise to claim any infrastructure that isn't entirely free risk is a failure as all other options are also burdened by risk.
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How long have you been aware that trucks swing wide to the left to make right hand turns?
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the assumption of a lot of people in this thread seems to be that the cyclist was overtaking. This is not the case, the trucker murdered a rider that the truck driver was overtaking, and should have known they were overtaking. I'm not a mind reader, what kind of moron turns right while overtaking? This is very, very simple. This guy is a murderer.
I think there should be an intelligence test for truckers, the ones I've met are not exactly confidence-inspiring.
There seems to be a pretty big push for automated long haul trucks. This possibly is going to make a bigger talent pool for the short haul guys. I know that short haul truckers are actually a higher class of drivers, but still, bigger pool might mean better drivers.
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the assumption of a lot of people in this thread seems to be that the cyclist was overtaking. This is not the case, the trucker murdered a rider that the truck driver was overtaking, and should have known they were overtaking. I'm not a mind reader, what kind of moron turns right while overtaking? This is very, very simple. This guy is a murderer.
I think there should be an intelligence test for truckers, the ones I've met are not exactly confidence-inspiring.
There seems to be a pretty big push for automated long haul trucks. This possibly is going to make a bigger talent pool for the short haul guys. I know that short haul truckers are actually a higher class of drivers, but still, bigger pool might mean better drivers.
I think there should be an intelligence test for truckers, the ones I've met are not exactly confidence-inspiring.
There seems to be a pretty big push for automated long haul trucks. This possibly is going to make a bigger talent pool for the short haul guys. I know that short haul truckers are actually a higher class of drivers, but still, bigger pool might mean better drivers.
Personally, I'm not a rocket scientist, but I have managed to not hit a vehicle, cyclist, or pedestrian in 25 years of professional driving. There are 5 drivers at my terminal that have over 20 years of safe driving, that's no tickets or incidents, on or off duty.
I broke a 10 year streak by bumping a bollard while backing blindside in an underground receiving dock of a high rise building.
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I've had a couple incidents where I was coming up the road the truck was turning into, and he turned so wide he just about came into me. They won't do that with cars -- they wait till the car is out of the way.
scott s.
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scott s.
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Originally Posted by MGL Chapter 90 Section 14
When turning to the right, an operator shall do so in the lane of traffic nearest to the right-hand side of the roadway and as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of roadway. No person operating a vehicle that overtakes and passes a bicyclist proceeding in the same direction shall make a right turn at an intersection or driveway unless the turn can be made at a safe distance from the bicyclist at a speed that is reasonable and proper.
As with all things related to road usage, obey the law, maintain situational awareness, exercise common sense, practice mutual cooperation, and mitigate the failures of others.
-mr. bill
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Here is a video about blind spots that someone posted a while ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV-rhiGRFTE
Just because you can see a truck doesn't mean it can see you.
If I can't get fully in front of a turning vehicle, and get a good part of the way through the intersection before they turn, then I'll stop behind them. Fortunately most vehicles around here use turn signals, and I look for them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV-rhiGRFTE
Just because you can see a truck doesn't mean it can see you.
If I can't get fully in front of a turning vehicle, and get a good part of the way through the intersection before they turn, then I'll stop behind them. Fortunately most vehicles around here use turn signals, and I look for them.
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I doubt you would ever see such ridiculous design even in the Netherlands or Copenhagen.
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Any infrastructure that violates the rules of normal movement and causes INCREASED risk is a blatant failure. Doesn't matter if it's for bikes, cars, trains, planes, boats, whatever. Requiring some traffic to turn right from the left side of other traffic going straight is a failure. A gross failure of engineering competence.
I doubt you would ever see such ridiculous design even in the Netherlands or Copenhagen.
I doubt you would ever see such ridiculous design even in the Netherlands or Copenhagen.
A divided roadway with no provision for merge or crossover at intersections is a recipe for disaster. We are all aware of the risks of right hooks, this design increases that significantly by blurring sight lines, and creating right of way confusion.
Consider how this would be handled if all the lanes were MV lanes, as we often see when through lanes are divided from the outer or service lanes. You'd see either signage saying no right from through lane / no left from service road, or traffic lights holding the right lane while the other was green.
This scheme impeded traffic flow for both bicycles and motor vehicles since neither can be assured of any right of way. The actions of both the cyclists and drivers in the video show the problem and confusion the dividers create.
One of the major issues with much of this kind of infrastructure is that it's designed around the assumption that bicycle speeds are low and bicycles are more like pedestrians than motor vehicles. That may be fine for bicyclists who move slowly and have plenty of time to get from point A to B, but it works against experienced cyclists that can move at speeds much closer to the urban speed limits.
Also consider that momentum is a serious issue for cyclists. Having to slow unnecessarily at every intersection greatly increases the energy needed to ride a bicycle, and change a 5 mile flat commute from a fast easy ride to a slow tiring grind, which will quickly discourage those very people infrastructure is supposed to attract.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#44
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^^^ Exactly. Also in this particular instance, the cyclists are coming down a hill off of the bridge, which makes cyclist speeds quite unpredictable.
Being a relatively slow rider, I relish whatever speed and momentum I can attain. So if I'm able to get up to 20 or so coming off this bridge, lights are green, you better believe I'm getting in the travel lanes so that I don't have to worry about a potential hook if I were to use the cycle track through that intersection.
Being a relatively slow rider, I relish whatever speed and momentum I can attain. So if I'm able to get up to 20 or so coming off this bridge, lights are green, you better believe I'm getting in the travel lanes so that I don't have to worry about a potential hook if I were to use the cycle track through that intersection.
#45
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Obviously the truck driver, It wasn't my intent to make excuses for that particular incident, just offer a reminder of the issue because its possible for one to enter into such a situation without the drivers knowledge as people do sometimes.
Last edited by kickstart; 09-11-15 at 11:34 AM.
#46
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^^^ Exactly. Also in this particular instance, the cyclists are coming down a hill off of the bridge, which makes cyclist speeds quite unpredictable.
Being a relatively slow rider, I relish whatever speed and momentum I can attain. So if I'm able to get up to 20 or so coming off this bridge, lights are green, you better believe I'm getting in the travel lanes so that I don't have to worry about a potential hook if I were to use the cycle track through that intersection.
Being a relatively slow rider, I relish whatever speed and momentum I can attain. So if I'm able to get up to 20 or so coming off this bridge, lights are green, you better believe I'm getting in the travel lanes so that I don't have to worry about a potential hook if I were to use the cycle track through that intersection.
Over the years I've only been hooked once at that intersection, when I was fully in the travel lane moving at speed, a driver swept around me and turned right.
One incident, Vs. many incidents on the same road in the 2 mile gap where there's no bike lane. IMO the trade off is still in favor of the bike lane.
Your standard for idiot proofness essentially makes infrastructure on any scale a virtual impossibility, yet the infrastructure you deem a failure is used by the vast majority of cyclists of all skill levels gladly and willingly.
#47
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First, this new intersection is a work in progress. The NO TURN ON RED sign has already gone up, but the lights have not been re-timed yet.
As far as I know there will be an exclusive right turn phase and an exclusive straight phase. In my dreams, there's a leading bicycle signal phase.
Pardon me, what's that I hear? People who don't ride through this intersection telling me how TERRIFIC the old "DESIGNS" were and how AWFUL the new configuration is.
This is the intersection as it's been for the years I've been riding through it.
14 serious bicycle/motor vehicle collisions between 2009-2012, and now one death.
Let's look at the old designs, shall we:
1980s-2011 Two lanes inbound with big OL' curb lane:
2012-2014: Three divided lanes with right turn only lane with bicycles allowed to to turn right or straight in the right lane:
2015: Three divided lanes (BTW, is that a right turn only lane, or an unmarked right turn only lane, or a bus stop?) with bicycles encouraged to be in middle thru lane:
Again, 14 serious bicycle/motor vehicle collisions in three years. And now one death.
So, strong evidence that the old designs were fail.
Evidence that the new design is fail? Oh, that's right, there is none.
-mr. bill
As far as I know there will be an exclusive right turn phase and an exclusive straight phase. In my dreams, there's a leading bicycle signal phase.
Pardon me, what's that I hear? People who don't ride through this intersection telling me how TERRIFIC the old "DESIGNS" were and how AWFUL the new configuration is.
This is the intersection as it's been for the years I've been riding through it.
14 serious bicycle/motor vehicle collisions between 2009-2012, and now one death.
Let's look at the old designs, shall we:
1980s-2011 Two lanes inbound with big OL' curb lane:
2012-2014: Three divided lanes with right turn only lane with bicycles allowed to to turn right or straight in the right lane:
2015: Three divided lanes (BTW, is that a right turn only lane, or an unmarked right turn only lane, or a bus stop?) with bicycles encouraged to be in middle thru lane:
Again, 14 serious bicycle/motor vehicle collisions in three years. And now one death.
So, strong evidence that the old designs were fail.
Evidence that the new design is fail? Oh, that's right, there is none.
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 09-11-15 at 01:46 PM.
#49
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Unter, mr bill,
Thank You for your voicea of reason!
The Boston Cyclist's Union put a very simple cheap design together for a protected intersection involving flex posts. The City rejected it.
Even adding a single flex post in line with the others would have cars taking the turn wider and help make both pedestrians and cyclists more visable. In fact, an additional cone appeared on wednesday evening at the edge of the crosswalk, cars and trucks still made the turn with ease but stopped cutting the corner and stayed several feet away from the curb apex.
The City's design misses the point. It's not the lane that needs protection, it's the intersection. Of course, you do need a protected lane to get to the protected intersection, so maybe it's a start.
There is a Boston City Council hearing on Monday about the state of bike infra and building the bike infra masterplan. I think many people, including myself. Will have the chance to vent at the City for not doing nearly enough for far too long.
Thank You for your voicea of reason!
The Boston Cyclist's Union put a very simple cheap design together for a protected intersection involving flex posts. The City rejected it.
Even adding a single flex post in line with the others would have cars taking the turn wider and help make both pedestrians and cyclists more visable. In fact, an additional cone appeared on wednesday evening at the edge of the crosswalk, cars and trucks still made the turn with ease but stopped cutting the corner and stayed several feet away from the curb apex.
The City's design misses the point. It's not the lane that needs protection, it's the intersection. Of course, you do need a protected lane to get to the protected intersection, so maybe it's a start.
There is a Boston City Council hearing on Monday about the state of bike infra and building the bike infra masterplan. I think many people, including myself. Will have the chance to vent at the City for not doing nearly enough for far too long.
#50
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I have to ask, in all those previous designs above, were all the injured cyclists riding where the sharrows directed them to ride, centered in either the 2nd lane or the RTO except bikes lane? Or were they somewhere else? Going the wrong way? Shoved over in the gutter? Or were some injuries due to things like jumping red lights where it wouldn't matter were in the lane they were located?
Wait, there's going to be a separate straight and right turn signal phase for the combined straight/right turn lane? I can tell you first-hand that will be a failure among motorists, as there will invariably be some waiting to go straight on the RTO phase, with others screaming behind them who want to turn. And vice versa there will be motorists waiting to turn right on the straight through phase, with others behind them pissed off that they can't go straight.
There is a town near here where they installed combo straight/left turn signals on a 4-lane road with no left turn lanes. So the first one or two cars in the left lane at a light might want to go straight, with others behind them wanting to go left, but no one can go at all while the left turn arrow is activated. That leads to dangerous situations of the left-turning motorists cutting across the oncoming lanes to get around the corner, or suddenly moving right and then cutting back left in front of those waiting to go straight.
Separate directional signal phases from a single combined directional lane is a BAD idea.
First, this new intersection is a work in progress. The NO TURN ON RED sign has already gone up, but the lights have not been re-timed yet.
As far as I know there will be an exclusive right turn phase and an exclusive straight phase. In my dreams, there's a leading bicycle signal phase.
As far as I know there will be an exclusive right turn phase and an exclusive straight phase. In my dreams, there's a leading bicycle signal phase.
There is a town near here where they installed combo straight/left turn signals on a 4-lane road with no left turn lanes. So the first one or two cars in the left lane at a light might want to go straight, with others behind them wanting to go left, but no one can go at all while the left turn arrow is activated. That leads to dangerous situations of the left-turning motorists cutting across the oncoming lanes to get around the corner, or suddenly moving right and then cutting back left in front of those waiting to go straight.
Separate directional signal phases from a single combined directional lane is a BAD idea.