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Please explain why headsets matter

Old 07-16-18, 03:19 PM
  #1  
brianinc-ville
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Please explain why headsets matter

This is a real question, not trolling:

Can you explain to me why any model of headset might be better than another (provided that they're all properly adjusted)?

I've ridden many, many bikes. I understand the difference the bearings in the drivetrain (BB, hubs, even pedals) can make. But I can't say I've ever gotten on a bike and even noticed the headset, unless it's A) set so loose that it clunks on bumps, or B) just worn out. All properly-functioning headsets seem the same to me.

Tell me why I'm wrong?
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Old 07-16-18, 03:24 PM
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I can't really speak for road bike. But with vintage BMX headsets the cheap ones would constantly loosen up on you. I imagine with road bikes the better = Much smoother turning, lighter, and feels more solid but that's a.bit of speculation on my part
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Old 07-16-18, 04:49 PM
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Some are prettier than others.

Some have fancy names.

Some are more expensive than others.

What's really the difference between Dura Ace, Ultegra and Claris? Stuff moves the chain from one gear to the next.

If it's important to you- it's important to you.
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Old 07-16-18, 05:10 PM
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Slippery slope here.
1st the headset, then the BB, hubs, FD, chainset, etc....... paint/decals/
This is C&V.
Diverse.
From inexpensive daily riders to museum quality collectors.
Use what works or use what’s original.
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Old 07-16-18, 05:19 PM
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Durability.
That's why Chris King headsets have been my preference for almost 40 years... but I think the first King headset was made in the late seventies so not period-correct for earlier bikes.
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Old 07-16-18, 05:36 PM
  #6  
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Because, eventually, regardless how much you try to stay on the straight and narrow path, you will have to turn. Beyond that, cheap ones cost less, might not be as purdy, or impress people (if you are into that). Expensive ones should be made of better materials (lighter, stronger) and held to better tolerances, so they should stay put when you adjust them.
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Old 07-16-18, 05:47 PM
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What I have found is that the lesser headsets are chrome plated, even the bearing races. Chrome is pretty hard, but the application is very thin and tends to flake, as it wears, creating a rough surface for the tiny balls to roll on. Also, the softer steel of the races are more prone to becoming dented, resulting in a headset that will, annoyingly, index or stutter as the balls seek out the dents in the race.

That said, when I build a bike I try to build it to the best of my ability. That does not mean top of the line everything, but it does mean no department store inferior components, even if they come from a bike shop or through an on-line purchase.
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Old 07-16-18, 06:31 PM
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Try riding a front loaded touring bike with a shimmy and then replacing the headset with one that has roller bearings, Major difference.
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Old 07-16-18, 06:32 PM
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More of a question of durability.

There's always a risk of damaging the frame or the paint during headset removal/installation. The fewer times you need to do this, the better.
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Old 07-16-18, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by thinktubes
More of a question of durability.

There's always a risk of damaging the frame or the paint during headset removal/installation. The fewer times you need to do this, the better.
I agree, and would add that lighter is almost always part of the equation, too.
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Old 07-16-18, 06:57 PM
  #11  
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The only headset I have noticed a difference on is the Stronglight with needle/roller bearings. One came off a donor so I tried it on my daily rider Klein. It felt better. I can't explain really.....seemed smooth and quick? stability? I repack all my headsets but this one just felt better and different somehow. It's still on there.
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Old 07-16-18, 08:15 PM
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Stronglight A9 headsets and their needle bearinged derivatives, are pretty much "install, adjust once" and you could forget it for years without touching it if you do not usually ride in wet conditions that can contaminate/remove the grease from the headset..... They just don't wear out!
This had been my experience with A9s on many bikes, since my first one in 84, on my PSV.
The A9s are definitely much better than most ball bearinged "equivalents"!
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Old 07-17-18, 03:10 AM
  #13  
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Dents in the races

Originally Posted by randyjawa
What I have found is that the lesser headsets are chrome plated, even the bearing races. Chrome is pretty hard, but the application is very thin and tends to flake, as it wears, creating a rough surface for the tiny balls to roll on. Also, the softer steel of the races are more prone to becoming dented, resulting in a headset that will, annoyingly, index or stutter as the balls seek out the dents in the race.
THANK YOU for using the description "dented".

I prefer the term "indented" because it describes the result not the cause.

Pet peeve rant:

People, mechanics, "experts" even some bearing manufactures use a lot of terms to describe different types of bearing failures. Brinelling, False Brinelling, Spalling, Abrasive Wear. These are all failure modes that need to be analyzed in a test lab to determine the cause. Everything else is an educated or uneducated guess.

Bearings DO NOT FRET! Fretting is a form of corrosion that occurs between interference fit parts like press fits and the precision ground tapers on machinery and machine tools. It's caused by inaccurate grinds or wear that allows microscopic movement between the matting parts. Fretting attacks both components and leaves a copper/rust brown surface. The damage can be up to .005" (0.13mm) deep in both surfaces.


End of rant.

Back to headsets...

Headsets are thrust bearings. Unlike the bearings in hubs and BBs which handle rotating forces, headsets distribute axial and impact forces while allowing the fork to move in a small part of an arc.

Cheap headsets are usually made of cheap steel that has been case hardened between .005 to .050 depth. The the bearing races are rarely ground and used as is after the heat treating scale has been removed and the parts chrome plated. As @randyjawa mentioned the thin chrome layer flakes off of the bearing tracks and the hard chrome wears the balls and races.

Between wear and impact the balls to go through the thin hardened surfaces causing indentations.

The dark regions of these 1/2" (12mm) test pieces show the depth of hardness.


Better quality headsets are made with alloy steel that is deep case hardened or through hardened. The bearing races "should" be about 60 Rc hardness (files are 56 Rc, Drills are 60+ Rc). They are more accurately manufactured and more resistant to indenting. When the head tube and fork crown are properly faced the fork should rotate smoothly side to side.

The original Stronglight A9 headsets used needle bearings which are ideal for thrust bearings.

@Chombi1 When I first saw one of these headsets I thought that they looked really cheap. I was going to replace it with a good quality steel headset until I took it apart and saw that it had survived 25+ years and was still working perfect.

They can work well slightly too loose or too tight.




The latest version uses precision sealed ball bearing cartridges. The seem to work as well but I think the needle bearing style was perfect. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.





NOTE: there are some black Stronglight A9 headsets being sold on eBay. They are painted steel not aluminum and they have plain caged ball bearings.



There are lots of other good quality headsets available like Chris King, Tange, VeloORANGE and others. Before you replace a headset do some homework.

Stack height


Easy was to check stack height capacity of frame.


My Flickr album has instructions, scroll below pictures:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...7625424641013/

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Old 07-17-18, 04:33 AM
  #14  
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I concur that it really boils down to durability, and then weight and appearance. Also manufacturing tolerance. But a modifying factor is how much you ride that bike.

I suspect I'll never wear out the HS on some of my bikes. Others I'm not so sure about.
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Old 07-17-18, 06:35 AM
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Another difference I've seen between headsets is bearing count. Some cheap 1" headsets will have 15 balls per race, whereas some better ones will have 20.
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Old 07-17-18, 06:56 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by verktyg
THANK YOU for using the description "dented".
. . . .

Back to headsets...

Headsets are thrust bearings. Unlike the bearings in hubs and BBs which handle rotating forces, headsets distribute axial and impact forces while allowing the fork to move in a small part of an arc.

Cheap headsets are usually made of cheap steel that has been case hardened between .005 to .050 depth. The the bearing races are rarely ground and used as is after the heat treating scale has been removed and the parts chrome plated. As @randyjawa mentioned the thin chrome layer flakes off of the bearing tracks and the hard chrome wears the balls and races.

Between wear and impact the balls to go through the thin hardened surfaces causing indentations.

The dark regions of these 1/2" (12mm) test pieces show the depth of hardness.


Better quality headsets are made with alloy steel that is deep case hardened or through hardened. The bearing races "should" be about 60 Rc hardness (files are 56 Rc, Drills are 60+ Rc). They are more accurately manufactured and more resistant to indenting. When the head tube and fork crown are properly faced the fork should rotate smoothly side to side.

The original Stronglight A9 headsets used needle bearings which are ideal for thrust bearings.

@Chombi1 When I first saw one of these headsets I thought that they looked really cheap. I was going to replace it with a good quality steel headset until I took it apart and saw that it had survived 25+ years and was still working perfect.

They can work well slightly too loose or too tight.




The latest version uses precision sealed ball bearing cartridges. The seem to work as well but I think the needle bearing style was perfect. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.





NOTE: there are some black Stronglight A9 headsets being sold on eBay. They are painted steel not aluminum and they have plain caged ball bearings.



There are lots of other good quality headsets available like Chris King, Tange, VeloORANGE and others. Before you replace a headset do some homework.

Stack height


Easy was to check stack height capacity of frame.


My Flickr album has instructions, scroll below pictures:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...7625424641013/

verktyg
My Peugeot PGN 10 has that same headset, but it's the plastic version:



Once the crown bolt is loose, the rest of the headset can be taken apart by hand, even the crown race is plastic and pops right off. It's lasted 33 years and is light as a feather. I wonder why this design never caught on, it's a definite winner.

I too have often wondered why headset parts need to be pressed and pounded into position with such great force, when the bearing mechanism itself does so little and is under so little stress.
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Old 07-17-18, 08:31 AM
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Three years ago, I put a Tange Passage headset on my Raleigh International. It was around $10. So far, so good. Some things really don't matter to me. Seat posts are another.
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Old 07-17-18, 08:41 AM
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According to the dictionary, a dent is "a slight hollow in a hard, even surface made by a blow or by the exertion of pressure".

And indent is, "deep recesses or notches in (a line or surface)".

Yup, those darn dents are actually indents. I can learns stuff all the time, eh.

Reminds me of a Smothers Brothers discussion on pumas. After a long discussion on the differences between pumas, mountain lions and cougars (the feline ones), the slower whited of the brothers finally agreed and then, turned away from the brighter one, quietly said, "But is sure looks like a puma to me".

Anyway, goods heads up on my poor choice of words. Good to get today's mistake out of the way early:-)
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Old 07-17-18, 11:41 AM
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Those strong light bearings are the same style as the ones on my motorcycle. Really it's a pretty good idea. With modern headsets I suppose another huge advantage with the more expensive ones is the bearings are sealed.
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Old 07-17-18, 11:52 AM
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I have never used any of the Stronglights but I have an Edco set on one of my Bikes and It is the nicest I have used.
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Old 07-17-18, 01:03 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by brianinc-ville

Can you explain to me why any model of headset might be better than another (provided that they're all properly adjusted)?
Precision IMO. Quality headsets are made to stricter tolerances than cheap/generic ones - more accurate dimensions, better machining. They should be more durable.
That said, I have seen many cheap headsets that lasted for years. When I disassemble/repack them I usually replace caged bearings by loose ones.
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Old 07-17-18, 01:32 PM
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I understand it's probably not a issue for road bikes, but I just wanted to add that with BMX cheap headsets always had a little slop to them. The problem is if there was too much slop and you took a jump you were risking cracking the headtube of the frame.

Hopefully this pic will show up

(Pic borrowed from Bicycle recyclery)
But that's a pic of an old Dura Ace headset. You will notice a huge difference is all the rubber gaskets to help seal the bearings and hopefully cut down on maintenance. Might be redundant if you are the type to ensure you keep up on cleaning bearings, but there's plenty of riders out there who are clueless about tuning up a bike.

If you look at the tech sheet you will see that they went as far as to coat the lower cone in titanium to reduce wear.

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Old 07-17-18, 01:58 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Colnago Mixte
My Peugeot PGN 10 has that same headset, but it's the plastic version:



Once the crown bolt is loose, the rest of the headset can be taken apart by hand, even the crown race is plastic and pops right off. It's lasted 33 years and is light as a feather. I wonder why this design never caught on, it's a definite winner.

I too have often wondered why headset parts need to be pressed and pounded into position with such great force, when the bearing mechanism itself does so little and is under so little stress.
The Stronglight B10 headset with the plastic (Delrin) cups tend to have too much flex in them that would translate to play if you do not put a good amount of preload on the bearings when you install them.
I experienced this not too long ago on my 1984 Gitane TdF, that had this headset. I just could not get the slight clunking/play out of the headset unless I had it too tight that there was just too much drag coming from the bearings. A9s are also installed with preload on the bearings, but nowhere near what the B10 seem to require......so I decided to just change out the B10 headset to one of the A9s in my stash.....and all was finally good with my Gitane....
BTW, the Delrin plastic cups on the B10 also tends to dry up and crack after some years if exposure to UV light.
I've actually seen B10s in bikes with parts of their greyed and dried up cups cracked off, but fortunately, it does not result in a catastrophic failure of the headset, as the captured steel races will still retain the needlebearings and cage, unless you lose most of the cup material.
I highly recommend the Stronglight A9 but cannot recommend the B10 because of the above....
The Stronglight Delta, a later derivative of the A9 is a very good headset too. Maybe even better than the A9 as it adds in o rings at the races to seal it off from dirt and moisture. Some do not like its looks though....

Last edited by Chombi1; 07-17-18 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 07-17-18, 02:51 PM
  #24  
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It's really very simple. Two, sometimes three things matter.

1) The headset must do its job of allowing free steering with no rattle.
2) Be an acceptable compromise between cost and overhaul/replacement intervals
3) (very important to some) be light sexy and hip - good for 0.5 watts for those of the right mindset.

For me, 3) doesnm't matter. Headsets don't weigh very much, even all steel ones. If it does 1) well, I never think of it when I am riding and rarely any other time. I buy $16 to $30 Tange headsets because they work very well. I get 8,000 miles usually completely trouble free except once a year (if I am piling the miles on that bike) I tighten the races ~1/8 of a turn (threaded). At 8000 miles (or when I start to feel the indents happening) I replace the lower balls with one size large and start looking for a new headset. No rush; I probably have 2-4000 miles left.

Now, if changing headsets is unacceptable or a major operation for you, that changes the balance of 2) and that $30 headset might not be the best, (I have far more miles on my roller bearing Stronglight that I paid 3X as much for.) But more money doesn't guarantee better. I had the Chris King "Grip Nut" threaded headset (I think that was what it was called) installed on my custom. Yes, I got 8,000 miles out if it and it was as good as new when I took it off, but it drove me crazy. 400 miles was as far as I could go on an adjustment; an adjustment made by me, by mechanics, some very good and by the Chris King factory itself. I finished many rides on a rattling headset. The cheap Tange I replaced it with has been a joy.

Oh, and this being C & V, the Tange headsets are completely traditional chromed steel. High quality chrome that holds up to wrenches well. Nice big nuts that also accept wrenches well. You can mix and match the various levels of Tange headsets to get different stack heights. (The $8 OEM headset for cheap bikes is VERY low. You can use the races and bearings of the better headsets and the rest of the parts from the $8 and make headsets of quite low stack. My custom has just that since the steerer was sized for the King, not a Tange.)

Ben
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Old 07-17-18, 11:21 PM
  #25  
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True confession time. In 54 years, as the original owner, I've never had this Campy headset apart or serviced. There, I said it. Amazing quality, still as smooth and tight as when it arrived from Italy.
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