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Please, drivers

Old 09-11-20, 08:09 AM
  #51  
Notso_fastLane
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
I expect that if they have a driver's license they should have learned about bicycle hand signals. If they have taken any sort of driver's education in the past this is one thing they should have learned.
I would take a small exception to this.

The standard (that someone would have learned in driver's ed) is to use your left hand, and raise your hand up. That's the 'standard' right turn signal. Your driver at the intersection may have actually been familiar with that. Your pointing right may have been confusing for that reason.
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Old 09-11-20, 08:13 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
trolly tracks.) .

-mr. bill
I had to look that up because I'd never seen that spelling before, but it is a recognized variant of "trolley".

If there ever was a more apt venue for that alternate spelling, I've yet to see it. This forum is lined with trolly stuff.
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Old 09-11-20, 08:19 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane
I would take a small exception to this.

The standard (that someone would have learned in driver's ed) is to use your left hand, and raise your hand up. That's the 'standard' right turn signal. Your driver at the intersection may have actually been familiar with that. Your pointing right may have been confusing for that reason.
Most states allow the extended right arm signal. Example, NH:

NH RSA 265:47:
II. Right turn-Hand and arm extended upward. Or optionally, when on a bicycle, by extending the right hand and arm horizontally.

I just checked--Utah also allows the horizontal right arm.
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Old 09-11-20, 08:20 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
OK, I really am sorry for starting this thread. I just wanted to vent my frustration over local drivers not understanding standard bicycle hand signals and creating a dangerous situation, and it's devolved into a mess.
No worries. There's just a lot of "experts" here that feel the need to school us pathetic excuse for cyclists I've had a few of my threads turn into something similar....
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Old 09-11-20, 08:46 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Most states allow the extended right arm signal. Example, NH:

NH RSA 265:47:
II. Right turn-Hand and arm extended upward. Or optionally, when on a bicycle, by extending the right hand and arm horizontally.

I just checked--Utah also allows the horizontal right arm.
I'm not arguing that point. But what most states allow, and what is generally taught to drivers (which probably hasn't changed much since the 60s) are two different, sometimes vastly different, things.

But that's a whole 'nother ball of yarn.
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Old 09-11-20, 09:39 AM
  #56  
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One Cyclist's Approach

Originally Posted by livedarklions
...These techniques work very well for me, and I'm not interested in debating them. I have no interest in convincing others to use them, and I have no interest in people trying to convince me to change them. I like to read other people's approaches to the same problems I face, but as always, I assume people know a lot more about their own riding habits and their own environment than I do, and a lot less about my riding habits and environment than I do.
Very well said. Since my environment and adaptation is different, I'll outline my approach in that spirit.

My context is (was, rather, before corona) commuting and utility involving some high-speed (45 mph posted) roads and some rush-hour traffic, day and night. I use a mirror to help with my situational awareness.

Some of my signals are habitual, and for some the habit is part of looking. All are very brief; typically less than 3 seconds off the handlebar:

For left turns, I point left and look over my shoulder in one motion. I need to confirm my situational awareness was correct.
For right turns, I point right. I'm close enough to the right that I don't normally check over the right shoulder.
For slowing/stops, I use the left hand down "driver's ed" signal and check my mirror.

Some of my signals depend on the situation:

I often point directly forward while looking at a nearby road user to indicate that I'm proceeding straight. Easy when stopped at an intersection. When I have the ROW, I find that sometimes I do that "too late" in the sense that I'm not covering my brakes when I should be. Something I'm working on improving my habit.
I will put one foot down when I'm stopped at an intersection with other road users. I usually unclip my left foot and let if hang down limp 5-10 seconds before the stop. I think this is probably interpreted by more motorists as "that cyclist is slowing/stopping" than the "driver's ed" hand signal.

The situation I have the most trouble with is the "nicehole", usually at four-way stops signs but there are other situations. (I recently had a motorist on four lane 35 mph posted who had unimpeded ROW stop when I'm waiting on a cross street. ARRRGH.) I don't have a good, reliable solution to this one; interested in any better techniques. I don't like my current practice of both feet on the ground, hands at my side and looking down at the ground because I lose situational awareness and ability to move quickly. However, I have to not look toward the "nicehole" because they keep waving for me to go on...

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Old 09-11-20, 10:00 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by flangehead
Very well said. Since my environment and adaptation is different, I'll outline my approach in that spirit.

My context is (was, rather, before corona) commuting and utility involving some high-speed (45 mph posted) roads and some rush-hour traffic, day and night. I use a mirror to help with my situational awareness.

Some of my signals are habitual, and for some the habit is part of looking. All are very brief; typically less than 3 seconds off the handlebar:

For left turns, I point left and look over my shoulder in one motion. I need to confirm my situational awareness was correct.
For right turns, I point right. I'm close enough to the right that I don't normally check over the right shoulder.
For slowing/stops, I use the left hand down "driver's ed" signal and check my mirror.

Some of my signals depend on the situation:

I often point directly forward while looking at a nearby road user to indicate that I'm proceeding straight. Easy when stopped at an intersection. When I have the ROW, I find that sometimes I do that "too late" in the sense that I'm not covering my brakes when I should be. Something I'm working on improving my habit.
I will put one foot down when I'm stopped at an intersection with other road users. I usually unclip my left foot and let if hang down limp 5-10 seconds before the stop. I think this is probably interpreted by more motorists as "that cyclist is slowing/stopping" than the "driver's ed" hand signal.

The situation I have the most trouble with is the "nicehole", usually at four-way stops signs but there are other situations. (I recently had a motorist on four lane 35 mph posted who had unimpeded ROW stop when I'm waiting on a cross street. ARRRGH.) I don't have a good, reliable solution to this one; interested in any better techniques. I don't like my current practice of both feet on the ground, hands at my side and looking down at the ground because I lose situational awareness and ability to move quickly. However, I have to not look toward the "nicehole" because they keep waving for me to go on...

I ride flat pedals, so my habit is to put my feet down to signal a stop as well. I've become very adept at going from very fast to standing over the bar on one of my bikes so it's a really clear signal in the one place where I think it really matters.

I'll go on a "nicehole" situation only if I have a clear view of all lanes and can see no one is behind the stopped car. Any other situation, and I'll either shake my head "no" or just plant my feet down and glance at the other traffic and then stare at the guy with a "are you kidding" face. Oddly, I find I have to do this while driving as well. I get the impulse to be nice, but some people don't seem to realize that their courtesy doesn't extend to an ability to stop other drivers from running into me.

I like how you talk about "habit". It makes sense to me that some of this may revolve around how well signalling works into our general style of riding. I'm riding at close to the speeds the cars are going, and for me I'm focusing a lot on avoiding potholes and watching out for pedestrians. Having to take my hand off the bars for a signal I consider useless is a real distraction.
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Old 09-11-20, 10:05 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
...... shake my head "no" ....
I'll give that a try; haven't done it. Thx.
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Old 09-11-20, 11:46 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I had to look that up because I'd never seen that spelling before, but it is a recognized variant of "trolley".

If there ever was a more apt venue for that alternate spelling, I've yet to see it. This forum is lined with trolly stuff.
Actually, no, it is not. This forum is often lined with opinion, conflict, and sometimes misinformation. You throw those terms: 'troll" and 'trollish behavior' around quite liberally in your posting. A lot of it directed at me personally. I don't think you really know what a troll is. So I suggest you do some research and see what objective definitions of those terms are. If after doing some Googling or Urban Dictionary review you still feel that Leisesturm, in particular, is deserving of such nomenclature ... well, there is this, "it takes one to know one" -anon.
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Old 09-11-20, 01:43 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by leisesturm
actually, no, it is not. This forum is often lined with opinion, conflict, and sometimes misinformation. You throw those terms: 'troll" and 'trollish behavior' around quite liberally in your posting. A lot of it directed at me personally. I don't think you really know what a troll is. So i suggest you do some research and see what objective definitions of those terms are. If after doing some googling or urban dictionary review you still feel that leisesturm, in particular, is deserving of such nomenclature ... Well, there is this, "it takes one to know one" -anon.

qed

Last edited by livedarklions; 09-11-20 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 09-11-20, 11:06 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
qed
non sequitur
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Old 09-12-20, 12:59 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
non sequitur
Res ipsa loquitur.

You're now trolling for a fight about trolling. Sorry, this kiosk is closed.

Last edited by livedarklions; 09-12-20 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 10-13-20, 08:05 PM
  #63  
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Can anyone here please share some bicycle signals? It will be of great help
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Old 10-14-20, 04:49 AM
  #64  
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When I arrive at a stop sign and wave a motorist on, because they were there first, I immediately look down at my bike so they can't in turn wave me thru...That's my signal for motorists that don't follow the rules of the road
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Old 10-14-20, 05:10 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Alan Bikes
Can anyone here please share some bicycle signals? It will be of great help
https://www.google.com/url?q=https:/...esnP7j-LcnsxqI
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Old 10-14-20, 05:21 AM
  #66  
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I made up my own hand signals, the official ones suck and don't get the message across. I'm too lazy to do a tutorial.
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Old 10-14-20, 06:49 AM
  #67  
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I just point in the direction I am turning...If there is lots of traffic, I waggle my hand, or make a stabbing motion while pointing, to get drivers' attention.
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Old 10-14-20, 07:12 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by work4bike
I made up my own hand signals, the official ones suck and don't get the message across. I'm too lazy to do a tutorial.

Making up your own hand signals is a really terrible idea so I'm just as glad you're sparing us the tutorial. Trying to direct traffic from a bike is not a habit I'd like to see spread.
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Old 10-14-20, 07:56 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by work4bike
I made up my own hand signals, the official ones suck and don't get the message across. I'm too lazy to do a tutorial.
Some times a single finger gets the point across.
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Old 10-20-20, 03:17 PM
  #70  
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I find that most motorists around here WANT to be polite, but they often don't understand what the best action is. Then there are the real POS drivers, but that is a different story.

On one particular road, I often get passed in the left turn lane by drivers who are not turning. And just when I am needing to move over there to make a left turn myself. I am normally in the low to mid 20s, the limit is 30, and the nicer drivers stay behind me until I am in the turn lane. They seem to know what an extended arm means.

And after dark, particularly on the tandem, I have some LED bracelets that look to have been made for kids walking after dark, but they add visibility.
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Old 10-21-20, 08:53 PM
  #71  
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recent scare

I had a recent scare. I'd signalled left with an extended left arm with a van behind me. I had nearly completed my turn into the intersection and was in the opposing traffic lane when the rear driver's side of the van brushed against my right hand and bumped my bike.
She stopped about 50 yards down the road to say she was "sorry", but I was too mad to talk to her. On my way home, it occured to me that she thought my extended left arm was a signal for her to pass me, but I though the extended left arm was a pretty universal signal. I guess it could have been a lot worse.
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Old 10-22-20, 07:34 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Helldorado
Please, drivers:
Slow down
Be patient
Pay attention
Is that so f*****g hard?
Unfortunately it is.
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Old 10-22-20, 06:28 PM
  #73  
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Never assume that any form of communication will be effective so always have an escape route. I usually signal when I feel that it "should" work to communicate my intent, but sometimes I will intentionally avoid signalling because I don't trust the driver. I can't explain it, but sometimes you get a feeling that certain motorists just aren't all there.

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Old 10-23-20, 01:23 AM
  #74  
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Nobody is ever going to understand your signals, I let them go first if possible, if not then I just go.
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