23mm vs 25mm tires
#76
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No, actually, it's more like the tallest mountain in Pennsylvania. It's pretty obvious that you're extrapolating your experience with other Forte tires to the Pro+ tires, which are better than the others. They are 120 TPI tires with good flat protection. I've ridden them for well over 5000 miles and I flatted exactly once when I rode over a bunch of broken glass. Vittoria Corsa Evos are better tires, but they cost 3-4 times as much. The Forte Pro+ tires are directly comparable to the Vittoria Rubino Pros, except that the Fortes last longer. Sure, $50+ tires are better than $20-30 tires, but that's not news. What IS news is that the Forte Pro+ tires, which can be gotten for under $15 when they are on sale, are as good as any $25-30 tires. If you wanted to argue that the higher end tires might be more supple and have lower rolling resistance, I wouldn't disagree. But you're simply mistaken as it relates to flat resistance.
You are right, I am extrapolating a bit. But even at that there are two different Forte Pro+ tire models with completely different constructions. They are definitely more similar in class to the GP4000S (120 tpi vs 110 for the foldable).
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It is very hard to make an absolute statement about a tire's flat resistance based on personal experience. Different areas of the country have different road quality. People also have different ride experiences; some ride in groups that point out hazards, some don't. Also, solo vs group riding can have an impact.
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A light 23 (say Veloflex Record 22) will be faster for an uphill smooth pavement TT than a light 25 - all in, meaning rim and tires.
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Nobody is stopping you from riding slower, more puncture prone and less comfy tires. Who cares if nobody rides the tour. They know what they are doing.
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You are funny. I was becoming an EE then just got hired to do secret magnetic stuff and never became one. That was good because it was starting to get real hard (80s and I was with the boat people in class). I tend to agree with you from the standpoint of how smarts are measured by people that care. So anyway after hours in our secret lab and on weekends we used to sneak in bike parts and test all kinds of things. We had test equipment for the B2 put together with bike parts. The quick release is a very useful tool. We found Epoxylite 6203 was both great for bonding brake pads to metal heat sinks on the bike and for tests - and then holding space shuttle parts together. We found Permecel Kapton 222 tape (polyimide) was both great for insulating coils and the best rim tape ever (still is). We use Nomex for coils and also tire casing boots. At that time Continental tires were cotton casing and since they use polyimide casing which is I think a great all around material.
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On sale the Vittorias are easy to find at $38 each -- twice the price of the Fortes, not 3-4.
You are right, I am extrapolating a bit. But even at that there are two different Forte Pro+ tire models with completely different constructions. They are definitely more similar in class to the GP4000S (120 tpi vs 110 for the foldable).
You are right, I am extrapolating a bit. But even at that there are two different Forte Pro+ tire models with completely different constructions. They are definitely more similar in class to the GP4000S (120 tpi vs 110 for the foldable).
In any case, thank you for acknowledging that you've never actually ridden the tires you are dissing, and so we can consign your opinion to being just another uninformed one.
Last edited by D1andonlyDman; 01-02-16 at 02:09 PM.
#85
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I'm kinda new to this section of the forum, but I thought the thread was about who's smartest. What has price got to do with anything?
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#87
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I paid less than $12 for the Forte Pro+ on black Friday - Actually $11.40 to be exact. Pretty sure that $38 is at least 3 times that much. And the Forte Pro+ tires that both Lazyass and I were referring to are the 120 TPI folding bead tires. In any case, the Vittorias are normally $50 tires, and the Forte Pro+ are normally a $16-19 tire. It's still around 3x as much. For a more accurate comparison, the Pro+ are nearly identical tires to the Vittoria Rubino Pros in terms of construction and ride characteristics. Which are fairly easily found for $25-30, but which is still twice as much as the recent sale price on the Forte Pro+.
In any case, thank you for acknowledging that you've never actually ridden the tires you are dissing, and so we can consign your opinion to being just another uninformed one.
In any case, thank you for acknowledging that you've never actually ridden the tires you are dissing, and so we can consign your opinion to being just another uninformed one.
My opinion is not completely uninformed, but I will admit that I am not going to waste $34 and potential time with flats on the side of the road in the interest of finding out for sure.
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BTW, back to the subject of this thread: I tend to ride 23mm tires up front, and 25mm tires in the rear. The Forte Pro+ tires are available in both sizes, but more colors in the 23mm size, and the 25mm have been in and out of stock at the best prices, whereas the 23mm ones have been available all along, and in a range of colors.
Last edited by D1andonlyDman; 01-02-16 at 03:20 PM.
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Now, I'm not going to lie and claim I've had the Vittoria's just to help my argument. Not that anyone here ever does that of course. I would like to try them someday. But I've researched enough about them to know that no one will convince me they will last near as long at the Forte nor have as good puncture protection with the thin casing they have. From the reviews I've read the general consensus seems to be that the flat protection of those tires isn't really very high up in the chain.
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You are funny. I was becoming an EE then just got hired to do secret magnetic stuff and never became one. That was good because it was starting to get real hard (80s and I was with the boat people in class). I tend to agree with you from the standpoint of how smarts are measured by people that care. So anyway after hours in our secret lab and on weekends we used to sneak in bike parts and test all kinds of things. We had test equipment for the B2 put together with bike parts. The quick release is a very useful tool. We found Epoxylite 6203 was both great for bonding brake pads to metal heat sinks on the bike and for tests - and then holding space shuttle parts together. We found Permecel Kapton 222 tape (polyimide) was both great for insulating coils and the best rim tape ever (still is). We use Nomex for coils and also tire casing boots. At that time Continental tires were cotton casing and since they use polyimide casing which is I think a great all around material.
We EE's also tend to be the most laziest people ever. So don't expect me to take the time to try to understand you.
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I have ridden both. I have Vittoria EVOs on my carbon wheels and the Forte Pro+ on a pair of training wheels I use as backups. I haven't used the wheelset enough to wear the tires out yet, but for my needs the Fortes have been fine. These wheels have been used mostly for solo mileage in the winter. The Vittoria tires ride much better than the Performance tires. Road conditions in the Seattle area are not bad. There is not a lot of debris on the roads compared to other places I have seen, such that I have not had a flat issue with any tires.
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I have ridden both. I have Vittoria EVOs on my carbon wheels and the Forte Pro+ on a pair of training wheels I use as backups. I haven't used the wheelset enough to wear the tires out yet, but for my needs the Fortes have been fine. These wheels have been used mostly for solo mileage in the winter. The Vittoria tires ride much better than the Performance tires. Road conditions in the Seattle area are not bad. There is not a lot of debris on the roads compared to other places I have seen, such that I have not had a flat issue with any tires.
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Now, I'm not going to lie and claim I've had the Vittoria's just to help my argument. Not that anyone here ever does that of course. I would like to try them someday. But I've researched enough about them to know that no one will convince me they will last near as long at the Forte nor have as good puncture protection with the thin casing they have. From the reviews I've read the general consensus seems to be that the flat protection of those tires isn't really very high up in the chain.
23's btw because the available 25's were way more expensive, more than double in some colors.
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I just today put on some Vittoria Rubino Pro tires @ $21 each not so much more than the Forte Pro's I think. No clue how long they'll last but the casing is thin compared to my usual tires (Forte Prima, Strada etc). I'll let you know, but I'm on the other bike mostly until Spring
23's btw because the available 25's were way more expensive, more than double in some colors.
23's btw because the available 25's were way more expensive, more than double in some colors.
NO! That CAN'T BE! You found the same tire model for cheaper in the 23mm version than the 25mm version??? I learned from here on this Forum THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO BE THE SAME PRICE! You must too must be very dumb.
I learn a lot on the Forums!
#96
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I just today put on some Vittoria Rubino Pro tires @ $21 each not so much more than the Forte Pro's I think. No clue how long they'll last but the casing is thin compared to my usual tires (Forte Prima, Strada etc). I'll let you know, but I'm on the other bike mostly until Spring
23's btw because the available 25's were way more expensive, more than double in some colors.
23's btw because the available 25's were way more expensive, more than double in some colors.
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My wife opined that probably no one wants that particular color and shade on their bike, hence the low price. While she may have a point, and a casual look at my bike would tend to bear that out, I took the opportunity to impress the wife with my knowledge and smarts, as we all tend to do from time to time. I explained that while she was right that it was a matter of fashion, it was the 2mm smaller tires that have fallen in fashion favor. Due to the 2mm wider tire now being faster according to conventional wisdom. And I do need some excuse for the disturbing discordant color since none of us, myself included wish to be thought of as cheap by their own wives.
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I just today put on some Vittoria Rubino Pro tires @ $21 each not so much more than the Forte Pro's I think. No clue how long they'll last but the casing is thin compared to my usual tires (Forte Prima, Strada etc). I'll let you know, but I'm on the other bike mostly until Spring
#99
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For the high performers, only tires I have ridden where Michelin Pro's. I want to try something else as well as try 25mm. I am heavily leaning towards the Vit Open Corsa Evo over the GP4000's. I love the Michelins, but it seems both the GP4000 and Vit OCE overall gets much better reviews from guys that have tried all 3. The Vitt seems to be a better roller and performer over the GP4000s, but they also seem to be more fragile. Right now on EBay, I can get 25mm Vit OCEs for $72 per pair while the GP 4000 25mm go for about $90 per pair. The roads where I ride are in good shape, so the toughness of the GP4000s is not really a crucial requirement for me.
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As I said, I ride the Forte Pro+, and I ride the Vittoria Rubino Pros. I consider them to be equivalent tires, and very similar to one another, and they are basically the two tires I ride by far the most. The lowest price I ever paid for Rubino Pros is $17.50, the lowest price I ever paid for the Forte Pro+ is $11.40. If there's any difference at all, it would be that the Vittorias are slightly more supple, and the Forte Pro+ are slightly longer lasting. I've also not ever seen the Forte Pro+ available in yellow, whereas the Vittorias are.