Notices
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals. Use this subforum for all requests as to "How much is this vintage bike worth?"Do NOT try to sell it in here, use the Marketplaces.

1973 Windsor Profesional

Old 06-27-16, 05:26 AM
  #1  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,405
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 2,226 Times in 1,249 Posts
1973 Windsor Profesional

I have an opportunity to purchase a Windsor Pro in my size. I read all the stuff on this bike, it has a real interesting history. This particular bike has been changed slightly with Suntour Bar End shifters( I will change back to Campy downtube) and a newer stem. Other than that the rest seems to have survived ( Campagnolo Nuovo Record Group). It also has a nice Brooks Saddle. The hubs are Phil Woods sealed type, I would change back to Campy High Flange. Any thoughts on value? Joe
Kabuki12 is offline  
Old 06-27-16, 06:58 AM
  #2  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,325
Mentioned: 414 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3783 Post(s)
Liked 3,288 Times in 2,148 Posts
One thing to check on these is the interior of the shell. There was a batch which came through right at this time with heavy rust inside the shell.
juvela is offline  
Old 06-27-16, 08:15 AM
  #3  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 652 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4719 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,034 Times in 1,874 Posts
Most members will be reluctant to offer an appraisal without pictures, as condition is a major factor in value. When you say that it has a Campagnolo Nuovo Record group, does that include the brakes? Typically, the Windsor Pro came with Universal 61 or 68 brakes and an upgrade to Campagnolo Record brakes would warrant a notable increase in value.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 06-27-16, 09:00 AM
  #4  
Slash5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 1,891
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
I don't know much about Windors but you sure it's a Professional? My low end Windsor Carrera Sport came with Suntour bar ends.
Seems like every time someone sells a Windsor, they always say it's a Professional.
Slash5 is offline  
Old 06-27-16, 01:49 PM
  #5  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26250 Post(s)
Liked 10,231 Times in 7,100 Posts
...post some photos. I have two of them, from different years, and can tell you what I paid for them here four or five years back. An orange one in excellent original cosmetic condition with tubular rims (original) cost me 500 dollars cash money, and needed a complete overhaul, which is not unusual for me. A champagne beige one that had been stripped of decals, but still had the original components (mostly) was a real find at a yard sale here for 125 dollars. Repro decals are readily available, and pretty close to the originals. Close enough if you ride fast, anyway.

There was one on the SF Bay area CL a couple of weeks back for 1200 bucks, which is about twice what one in pristine condition ought to bring, but that whole Campy gruppo on e-bay insanity has probably driven up the price.

For 1200 bucks you can buy some pretty fine Italian or British small production bikes here, and the Windsor Pro originally sold for about half of those.

But I have to admit that both of the bikes I have are excellent riders, in the Italian/Columbus framed tradition. The lugs on a Pro ought to look like faux-Cinelli, with the little holes drilled in them.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 06-29-16, 02:56 AM
  #6  
eschlwc
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: on the beach
Posts: 4,859

Bikes: '73 falcon sr, '76 grand record, '84 davidson

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 16 Posts
mine was a windsor touring elite. awesome columbus sl/sp bike. it had an odd fade paint job (with some rattle can mixed in), and i sold it earlier this year for $500 with a leather saddle and a nice clincher wheelset.
eschlwc is offline  
Old 06-29-16, 07:15 AM
  #7  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,405
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 2,226 Times in 1,249 Posts
I am having trouble uploading pics of the bike. I am sure it is a Profesional , the seller is a bike mechanic who bought it from the original owner. It has the campy dropouts Cinelli like lugs and seat cluster . Campagnolo headset and b.b. ,crank, derailuers , seat post , and still has the flat record type skewers . The paint(silver) is fair and the decals are 80% intact, the chrome on the lugs still looks nice. It is scary how much it looks like an early Cinelli! The present owner rode it in the Eroica event last year. It is a 61cm frame size. Joe
Kabuki12 is offline  
Old 06-29-16, 07:17 AM
  #8  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,405
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 2,226 Times in 1,249 Posts
I forgot to mention that it has Universal Center pull brakes and early Cinelli bars. Joe
Kabuki12 is offline  
Old 06-29-16, 10:43 AM
  #9  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26250 Post(s)
Liked 10,231 Times in 7,100 Posts
Originally Posted by Kabuki12
I am having trouble uploading pics of the bike. I am sure it is a Profesional , the seller is a bike mechanic who bought it from the original owner. It has the campy dropouts Cinelli like lugs and seat cluster . Campagnolo headset and b.b. ,crank, derailuers , seat post , and still has the flat record type skewers . The paint(silver) is fair and the decals are 80% intact, the chrome on the lugs still looks nice. It is scary how much it looks like an early Cinelli! The present owner rode it in the Eroica event last year. It is a 61cm frame size. Joe
...yeah, that's a Pro for sure. Here's the one in the Bay area that's now listed for a grand:1971 Windsor Professional 60cm w/ Campagnolo Nuovo Record Group Set

If this one is fair paint and 80% on the decals, and working well (belongs to mechanic), and you don't have to build wheels for it, I'd put it at 500 bucks, +/- 100. A lot depends on where you are.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 06-29-16, 12:13 PM
  #10  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,405
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 2,226 Times in 1,249 Posts
Thank You for that. I think I saw that bike on eBay too. The paint is nicer on that one , the decals on the one I am looking at are a bit better...maybe. The Brooks saddle is new(he says $200 it is a B17). He is asking $300 and seems to be firm. It is a long drive to where the bike is and I am driving down Saturday to do final inspection. He sent 7 or 8 pictures of the bike . I am not hot on the center pull brakes , but they seem to be common for the early 70's. Joe
Kabuki12 is offline  
Old 06-30-16, 12:36 AM
  #11  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26250 Post(s)
Liked 10,231 Times in 7,100 Posts
Originally Posted by Kabuki12
Thank You for that. I think I saw that bike on eBay too. The paint is nicer on that one , the decals on the one I am looking at are a bit better...maybe. The Brooks saddle is new(he says $200 it is a B17). He is asking $300 and seems to be firm. It is a long drive to where the bike is and I am driving down Saturday to do final inspection. He sent 7 or 8 pictures of the bike . I am not hot on the center pull brakes , but they seem to be common for the early 70's. Joe

...the brakes work fine. They were the original dual pivot brakes, and work better than a lot of the single pivot side pulls from that era. I guess you could "upgrade" them to Campy sidepulls, but I've never felt the need. Universal centerpulls modulate as well as anything contemporaneous, and with the right setup and pads, will lock your wheel if you feel the need. If there's a drawback, it's in finding hoods that fit them, but yours might be good.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 06-30-16, 08:10 AM
  #12  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,405
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 2,226 Times in 1,249 Posts
Price

Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...the brakes work fine. They were the original dual pivot brakes, and work better than a lot of the single pivot side pulls from that era. I guess you could "upgrade" them to Campy sidepulls, but I've never felt the need. Universal centerpulls modulate as well as anything contemporaneous, and with the right setup and pads, will lock your wheel if you feel the need. If there's a drawback, it's in finding hoods that fit them, but yours might be good.
This one has no hoods on the levers. One thing I noticed is a bit of rust on the BB area as a previous member mentioned. It appears to be surface rust and not structural as inside the shell area. I think I would pull the BB and sand/grind and epoxy primer and paint as best I can to match the rest of the bike. I have asked for a price adjustment and have not heard back, so we'll see. Do you think$300 is fair for one that needs a little work ? i know it is hard without seeing pictures , but I am having trouble uploading with the new format. I am not a computer guy and am not familiar with the URL thingy they keep asking for! Thank you for all your help, I really like the look of these bikes and would love to own it but do not want to get into something that would eventually fail.
Kabuki12 is offline  
Old 06-30-16, 09:21 AM
  #13  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26250 Post(s)
Liked 10,231 Times in 7,100 Posts
Originally Posted by Kabuki12
This one has no hoods on the levers. One thing I noticed is a bit of rust on the BB area as a previous member mentioned. It appears to be surface rust and not structural as inside the shell area. I think I would pull the BB and sand/grind and epoxy primer and paint as best I can to match the rest of the bike. I have asked for a price adjustment and have not heard back, so we'll see. Do you think$300 is fair for one that needs a little work ? i know it is hard without seeing pictures , but I am having trouble uploading with the new format. I am not a computer guy and am not familiar with the URL thingy they keep asking for! Thank you for all your help, I really like the look of these bikes and would love to own it but do not want to get into something that would eventually fail.
...I think 300 bucks is probably an OK price. The Phil hubs are a considerable upgrade, even though you'd rather have Campy...but from his perspective that's on you. You can get the cheap hoods from Cane Creek to fit with considerable modification and some coaxing. You have to trim them to allow the adjusters to clear, and IIRC I also had to split them on the bottom and rewrap with bar tape. Or you can just carefully remove the bottoms and go with the styling that suits you.

From your description, it is a Columbus tubing frame with enough Campy and Phil parts on it to be worth 300 bucks or more even parted out. So that's what I'd be thinking as the seller.

I personally am not worried about some rust in the BB shell, they are pretty solid parts in the frame.

The reports you read about BB failure are related to some of the early production due to overheating in brazing by the inexperienced Mexican workers. By the time 1973 rolled around, they had plenty of experience.

But paint means a lot to me in a project bike. I hate painting, and it's a PIA. Then you have to set it aside for a while so it's dry when you work on it...less of a problem in California summers. I am reluctant to take on any more projects that require much painting, and have even taken a few frames to a local powdercoater here...so if it needs that figure another 125 bucks in your project costs. Plus 40 bucks for decals. If you are set on Campy brakes, hubs, etc. it might end up costing you more than you want to invest.

Again, I can't see how good or bad the paint appears. Good luck with it.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 06-30-16, 09:49 AM
  #14  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,405
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 2,226 Times in 1,249 Posts
Thank you I think I am going to get this bike. You are right about the parts adding up to cover the $300 investment.The brooks saddle is pristine and the rest of the Campy parts with todays eBay prices would probably turn a profit. Thanks again
Kabuki12 is offline  
Old 07-02-16, 08:36 AM
  #15  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,323
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3449 Post(s)
Liked 2,800 Times in 1,974 Posts
Be sure to drop the fork and inspect the steerer brazing.
Yes, the brake bolt will hold things together.

These bikes were a deal back in the day, bought as a budget pro level bike.
Some were decent, some were scary, all were inexpensive.

More than one guy bought one then later bought an big name Italian frame and transferred the components.
repechage is offline  
Old 07-04-16, 10:57 AM
  #16  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,405
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 2,226 Times in 1,249 Posts
Well I now own a 1973 Windsor Pro! What a great ridding bike. I ended up changing the bar end shifters to Campy down tube type, wrapped the early Cinelli bars with blue and yellow tape , polished the rear wheel , checked the bike out and decided this morning to put it back together and go for a ride. The bike was raced heavily through the 70's. The original owner was a racer who , unfortunately was dying and decided to pass the bike along to a young man in a bike shop. The bike was just a little too tall for him so he sold it to me. The old man is now gone , but his spirit is still on that bike. I feel it when I am riding, seriously. I just rode 17 miles to my office and checked my mail. After writing this I am heading back home, maybe the long way?
Kabuki12 is offline  
Old 07-04-16, 11:48 AM
  #17  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26250 Post(s)
Liked 10,231 Times in 7,100 Posts
Originally Posted by Kabuki12
Well I now own a 1973 Windsor Pro! What a great ridding bike. I ended up changing the bar end shifters to Campy down tube type, wrapped the early Cinelli bars with blue and yellow tape , polished the rear wheel , checked the bike out and decided this morning to put it back together and go for a ride. The bike was raced heavily through the 70's. The original owner was a racer who , unfortunately was dying and decided to pass the bike along to a young man in a bike shop. The bike was just a little too tall for him so he sold it to me. The old man is now gone , but his spirit is still on that bike. I feel it when I am riding, seriously. I just rode 17 miles to my office and checked my mail. After writing this I am heading back home, maybe the long way?
...yeah. That's the nice thing about them. The good ones ride like a swell Italian frame. If yours was raced, it sounds like it has been pretty well tested for construction defects already. Glad you feel good about it.

I am just finishing up a restoration/ city wheels modification to an olde Carabela track bike, which came from the same manufacturer. It had been rode hard and put away wet bu the time I got it, but I'm looking forward to finishing the whole project this week or next and putting some miles on it.
3alarmer is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Kadams36
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
2
04-12-19 05:42 PM
rideandgoseek
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
10
01-24-18 11:03 AM
retyred
Classic & Vintage
33
11-18-13 09:19 PM
zach.hope
Classic & Vintage
10
07-07-10 10:20 AM
s70rguy
Classic & Vintage
6
04-16-10 11:51 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.