Newbie help! Are clincher tires on Enve 5.6 tubeless wheels a hassle?
#1
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Newbie help! Are clincher tires on Enve 5.6 tubeless wheels a hassle?
Hi all, I'm thinking about about buying a used racing bike--right size, good components, integrated power meter, deep dish wheels--all perfect for training and racing. The thing is I'm a clincher tires guy and the bike has tubeless Enve 5.6 wheels. The seller assures me that these wheels can take clincher tires but threads I've seen here seem to indicate that there can be lots of problems installing/removing tires on a tubeless wheel--I'm not sure if the problem is trying to put clinchers on a tubeless wheel or if it's putting *any* tire on a tubeless wheel. I'm happy riding clinchers--I'm only 145 lbs, never get pinch flats, rarely get any flats at all--but this bike has everything I need, the only problem is the tubeless wheels. If you have experience in this area, but let me know what you think about this potential purchase. I want the bike but I DON'T want any more hassles than I already have with bicycle maintenance!...
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If the rims are hookless you can use tubes but must use TL tires. I assume the current 5.6 are hookless, but the ones on the bike you're looking at might be a few years old?
My vote: buy the bike!
My vote: buy the bike!
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I only did a quick search, but from what I see, the 5.6 are "tubeless optimized" (not sure what they mean by that) but compatible with regular clinchers. Almost all recent, decent wheels are going to have similar, tubeless-ready rim profiles.
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Do you ever have issues installing new tires on your current rims? If not you will probably not have any big issues with a tubed tire on a tubeless rim.
If you do have issues, then you probably aren't doing something right.
How often do you have to change a tire?
If you do have issues, then you probably aren't doing something right.
How often do you have to change a tire?
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It seems that you're asking about installation difficulty. As a rule, tubeless tires are harder to install than tubed tires (and yet people manage). But there's variance between brands, models, units and even over time for the same tire.
Some tires are harder than others to install, but like someone above said, most tubed tires will not be that bad.
Some tires are harder than others to install, but like someone above said, most tubed tires will not be that bad.
#6
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You should be fine, except ENVE advices against cotton casing tyres.
"Smart ENVE System (SES) Tire CompatibilityModels: SES 2.2, SES 3.4, SES 5.6, SES 7.8, SES Disc Wheel
Tubeless Rim Type: Hooked-Bead
Inner-Tube Compatible: Yes
Inner Rim Width Dimension: 18-20.5mm
Aero Optimized Tire Size Recommendation: 25mm
Tire Size Range Compatibility: 23mm to 32mm
Rim’s Maximum Tire Pressure: 120psi
There are no limitations on tire compatibility with these wheel models. Your ENVE SES wheels may be set up and run with inner-tubes and non-tubeless tires or tubeless (TL) and tubeless ready (TLR) tires alike. We recommend the use of a Tubeless (TL) or Tubeless Ready (TLR) 700x25c tire set up tubeless to maximize aerodynamics, rolling resistance, crosswind stability, and your ride experience.
Non-Tubeless Setup (i.e. I want to run inner-tubes) – Each ENVE SES wheelset is delivered with one roll of RED, model specific, ENVE tested and approved tubeless rim tape. This tape should be installed regardless of whether you intend to run your wheels tubeless or not. Do not run cloth or plastic (including ENVE) non-tubeless compatible rim tape or strips. Plastic rim strips and cloth tapes are too thick, bridge the drop-center rim channel, and will make installation and removal of tires extremely difficult. Click here for our tubeless tape installation video.
Cotton and/or Natural Fiber Sidewall Tires – ENVE does NOT RECOMMEND the use of cotton or natural fiber sidewall non-tubeless tires with ENVE SES wheelsets for everyday use. These tires are intended for high-performance racing applications only. If you choose to run these tires, please inspect your tires after each ride for cuts, tears, and any signs of abrasion and/or wear in the sidewall and at the location of the rim/tire interface. If any wear and/or damage is identified, replace before riding. Riders who choose to run tires with cotton or natural fiber sidewalls do so at their own risk."
"Smart ENVE System (SES) Tire CompatibilityModels: SES 2.2, SES 3.4, SES 5.6, SES 7.8, SES Disc Wheel
Tubeless Rim Type: Hooked-Bead
Inner-Tube Compatible: Yes
Inner Rim Width Dimension: 18-20.5mm
Aero Optimized Tire Size Recommendation: 25mm
Tire Size Range Compatibility: 23mm to 32mm
Rim’s Maximum Tire Pressure: 120psi
There are no limitations on tire compatibility with these wheel models. Your ENVE SES wheels may be set up and run with inner-tubes and non-tubeless tires or tubeless (TL) and tubeless ready (TLR) tires alike. We recommend the use of a Tubeless (TL) or Tubeless Ready (TLR) 700x25c tire set up tubeless to maximize aerodynamics, rolling resistance, crosswind stability, and your ride experience.
Non-Tubeless Setup (i.e. I want to run inner-tubes) – Each ENVE SES wheelset is delivered with one roll of RED, model specific, ENVE tested and approved tubeless rim tape. This tape should be installed regardless of whether you intend to run your wheels tubeless or not. Do not run cloth or plastic (including ENVE) non-tubeless compatible rim tape or strips. Plastic rim strips and cloth tapes are too thick, bridge the drop-center rim channel, and will make installation and removal of tires extremely difficult. Click here for our tubeless tape installation video.
Cotton and/or Natural Fiber Sidewall Tires – ENVE does NOT RECOMMEND the use of cotton or natural fiber sidewall non-tubeless tires with ENVE SES wheelsets for everyday use. These tires are intended for high-performance racing applications only. If you choose to run these tires, please inspect your tires after each ride for cuts, tears, and any signs of abrasion and/or wear in the sidewall and at the location of the rim/tire interface. If any wear and/or damage is identified, replace before riding. Riders who choose to run tires with cotton or natural fiber sidewalls do so at their own risk."
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I ride with tubed wheels, but I'm old school and those are all the rims I've been familiar with when I've built up the wheels I'm using. Honestly though, it if came with tubeless already set up, I'd just ride it with those until I needed to replace the tires (or until there were problems). Then I'd decided if I'd liked it enough to spend the extra $20 or so each on tubeless tires and keep going that way or spend $20 on a tube and a spare for each wheel to go with the ~$20 cheaper tube-requiring tires. Especially if they're hooked rims like these that can easily take a hooked tire.
Oh and buy yourself a couple sets of really nice tire levers and a couple Kool-Stop tire jacks. One for your took kit at home and one for your saddlebag. Some tire/rim combos you can do barehanded, most you can do with the VAR tire jack that's a lot smaller/easier to fit into your saddlebag, but absolutely all tire/rim combos that it's possible to match will work with the Kool-Stop jack. Heavier/requires a bigger bag, but, if you're worried about getting your tires back on the wheel, this will give you the confidence to know you'll never be stranded on the side of the road.
Oh and buy yourself a couple sets of really nice tire levers and a couple Kool-Stop tire jacks. One for your took kit at home and one for your saddlebag. Some tire/rim combos you can do barehanded, most you can do with the VAR tire jack that's a lot smaller/easier to fit into your saddlebag, but absolutely all tire/rim combos that it's possible to match will work with the Kool-Stop jack. Heavier/requires a bigger bag, but, if you're worried about getting your tires back on the wheel, this will give you the confidence to know you'll never be stranded on the side of the road.
Last edited by himespau; 07-12-22 at 10:23 AM.
#8
Dopamine Junkie
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So, what do y'all think? I've read in these forums about people struggling to install and remove tires on tubeless rims. Could it happen with these?
#9
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I ride with tubed wheels, but I'm old school and those are all the rims I've been familiar with when I've built up the wheels I'm using. Honestly though, it if came with tubeless already set up, I'd just ride it with those until I needed to replace the tires (or until there were problems). Then I'd decided if I'd liked it enough to spend the extra $20 or so each on tubeless tires and keep going that way or spend $20 on a tube and a spare for each wheel to go with the ~$20 cheaper tube-requiring tires. Especially if they're hooked rims like these that can easily take a hooked tire. Oh and buy yourself a couple sets of really nice tire levers and a couple Kool-Stop tire jacks. One for your took kit at home and one for your saddlebag. Some tire/rim combos you can do barehanded, most you can do with the VAR tire jack that's a lot smaller/easier to fit into your saddlebag, but absolutely all tire/rim combos that it's possible to match will work with the Kool-Stop jack. Heavier/requires a bigger bag, but, if you're worried about getting your tires back on the wheel, this will give you the confidence to know you'll never be stranded on the side of the road.
Regarding my current setup, I don't have problems. My concern is that the "tubeless optimized" rims might be harder to work with, and I don't want any more hassles than I already have with maintaining my 3 bikes!...
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I alluded to it in my post, but I'll be more explicit - almost every good, current wheelset is going to be tubeless compatible (or have a tubeless rim profile, in the case of a couple of Specialized offerings), so you're not likely to dodge any difficulty inherent to tubeless rim profiles (if there is such a thing) by going with something else. If the bike ticks all the boxes, these wheels shouldn't stop you.
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I just wouldn't let the wheels on the bike nix the purchase if you like the bike and don't have any other contenders. If you don't flat often and go 5000 miles between tire changes then you'll be fine. If they are tougher to install, you'll just simply get better over a few times of changing them and they'll eventually be easy for you.
I wouldn't even be in a hurry to change them from tubeless tires. You might even find you like tubeless tires.
I haven't had to use a lever on a tire for many years. Not even to remove them. Yet I hear people griping that they can't seat the same tires on their rims even with a lever. Mine aren't tubeless rims though, but certainly I won't fear changing tires on them if I ever have too.
I wouldn't even be in a hurry to change them from tubeless tires. You might even find you like tubeless tires.
I haven't had to use a lever on a tire for many years. Not even to remove them. Yet I hear people griping that they can't seat the same tires on their rims even with a lever. Mine aren't tubeless rims though, but certainly I won't fear changing tires on them if I ever have too.
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Just get the bike. If you end up having too many hassles with the wheels, sell them on ScamBay and get another set you prefer.
p.s. please call them "deep section" wheels, as wheel dish refers to offset for the rear wheel. #Pedantry
p.s. please call them "deep section" wheels, as wheel dish refers to offset for the rear wheel. #Pedantry
Last edited by datlas; 07-12-22 at 12:44 PM.
#13
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Thanks for everyone's input! Unfortunately, there's been a glitch: even though he originally said "they can take a tube like any other clincher", now he's saying in response to my question about hooked bead or hookless, "Enve SES 5.6 (which I believe are hookless). I wouldn’t recommend running them with tubes, but I carry a tube in case I flat and the sealant doesn’t plug it." So, needless to say, this is very frustrating... I've written a frank response to him listing the reasons for my reluctance to switch to a permanent tubeless setup; hopefully he will offer a discount to make the sale. I think that's the only thing that would persuade me to switch. I'll give y'all an update once it's decided one way or the other. Thanks again everyone, for helping me out! I'm sorry I took up people's time due to the bad information that was given to me...
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Thanks for everyone's input! Unfortunately, there's been a glitch: even though he originally said "they can take a tube like any other clincher", now he's saying in response to my question about hooked bead or hookless, "Enve SES 5.6 (which I believe are hookless). I wouldn’t recommend running them with tubes, but I carry a tube in case I flat and the sealant doesn’t plug it." So, needless to say, this is very frustrating... I've written a frank response to him listing the reasons for my reluctance to switch to a permanent tubeless setup; hopefully he will offer a discount to make the sale. I think that's the only thing that would persuade me to switch. I'll give y'all an update once it's decided one way or the other. Thanks again everyone, for helping me out! I'm sorry I took up people's time due to the bad information that was given to me...
And, FYI, even hookless rims don't need to be run tubeless. They need to be paired with tubeless tires, but you can pop a tube in them if you really want to (not that I would).
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#15
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You're absolutely right--thanks so much for posting! I just checked Enve's tire compatibility table and the 5.6 is not listed under 'hookless'. Well I'll be goddamned! This story has more plot twists than a dime store novel...
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Yes, thanks for digging into it for me. I saw those warnings about the cotton casing, that's not a problem.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to remove the tires right away because I doubt the seller has bothered to do it in a long while. The wheels only have 1,000 miles on them and the sealant has probably dried out.
.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to remove the tires right away because I doubt the seller has bothered to do it in a long while. The wheels only have 1,000 miles on them and the sealant has probably dried out.
.
#17
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You don't have to remove tires to add sealant. Just remove the valve core and inject sealant through the open valve stem. Much less hassle than changing an inner tube. I have been riding road tubeless for about 12 years and in all that time I have only once had to repair a puncture out on the road for my own bike. I have helped other people who had tubeless flats install an inner tube out on the road. Takes about the same time as replacing an inner tube on regular clincher wheels.
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Almost all higher-quality modern wheels are tubeless-ready, and most have carbon rims that are hookless. All this means is that you must use tires that are compatible, i.e., that are tubeless-ready. It doesn't mean that you can't stick tubes in them if you would rather do so. It just means that you have to use tires that are sized carefully so that they won't blow off the rim (which is also less of a potential problem if you run tubes).
Those tires will, by necessity, be a tight fit.
Those tires will, by necessity, be a tight fit.
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I never have had to do that. I install my tires, inflate to seat them, then deflate and add sealant through the valve, and then ride them until they wear out
#20
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Almost all higher-quality modern wheels are tubeless-ready, and most have carbon rims that are hookless. All this means is that you must use tires that are compatible, i.e., that are tubeless-ready. It doesn't mean that you can't stick tubes in them if you would rather do so. It just means that you have to use tires that are sized carefully so that they won't blow off the rim (which is also less of a potential problem if you run tubes). Those tires will, by necessity, be a tight fit.
Just an update: While it has turned out that the wheels are not a deal breaker, I have decided to not purchase this bike. It had all that I needed--good quality Ultegra groupo and deep section wheels, power meter, etc.--but it is a 2016 Pinarello GAN, and the bike is heavy. This bike would probably weigh in (with pedals and bottle cages) at 18 1/2 or 19 lbs whereas my current bike, a 2007 Giant TCR, is 18 lbs. To my mind, a heavier bike is hardly an upgrade...
Thanks to everyone who posted thoughtful and well-informed comments--HUGELY helpful!
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Personally I couldn't see going through the hassle of mounting and unmounting tubeless tires every time I need to swap a tube. The whole point of tubeless tires is so you don't get flats, and the mounting of them is a one-time task you do every 2000-3000 miles or whatever. Using tubes brings you the worst of both! Once you have tubeless wheels with tubeless tires, forget about tubes and use sealant... Seriously.
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#22
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Personally I couldn't see going through the hassle of mounting and unmounting tubeless tires every time I need to swap a tube. The whole point of tubeless tires is so you don't get flats, and the mounting of them is a one-time task you do every 2000-3000 miles or whatever. Using tubes brings you the worst of both! Once you have tubeless wheels with tubeless tires, forget about tubes and use sealant... Seriously.