eugene_b

Hi everyone,

5 years ago I posted a thread here to help me choose my 1st bike, and thanks to input from everyone, I have been a happy owner of Raleigh Talus 29er Comp which has quite some mileage on it by now and has seen many adventures. While I still very much enjoy my MTB, at some point I've discovered rail trails and started doing those as well. I've hit a wall pretty fast and then somebody suggested that I throw a set of skinny tires on it. I followed that advice and got Vee Rubber X-C-X 29 x 1.75" tires with little texture, put it on my MTB and pumped it up to 60psi. That definitely helped and added a whole bunch of new adventures to my list but then I hit a wall again. The most I've able to do with that configuration in one day so far is 90 miles. I probably can train harder and push it further but I don't think I can do much more than that.

To clarify the rail trails I speak of are good "hard" trails which typically consist of a mix of asphalt, packed dirt with occasional mix of gravel, very occasionally bigger rocks and patches of dirt overgrown with grass. So mostly good quality hard road, which is not always paved and in places can have some lower quality sections. Some of the things I badly want to do in future are
https://www.traillink.com/trail/john...pioneer-trail/
https://www.traillink.com/trail/pine-creek-rail-trail/
https://www.traillink.com/trail/grea...gheny-passage/

I've been contemplating about hybrids for a while but, having never ridden one, I wonder whether they would provide much of improvement? Would be very curious to hear your thoughts. I've been to the local bike shop and the guy there suggested me to try Specialized Sirrus Disc, which he says would be more efficient but he also said that it probably won't be a dramatic improvement over a MTB with 60psi skinny tires.

02Giant 

Maybe it is time for a cross bike.

MRT2

Or a road bike.

canklecat

You're probably at the point of fitness that you can benefit from a drop bar gravel bike. Especially if you can maintain a 15-16 mph pace for miles on decent gravel roads but find it difficult to maintain a faster pace for long. At around 15-16 mph even in still conditions you're hitting a significant increase in wind resistance with a flat bar bike.

Take a look at other riders you encounter and watch the torso and arm positions. Even with a narrow flat bar set as low as practical while still being ergonomically efficient, we're presenting more frontal area to catch the wind. That's one of the main hindrances I'm encountering in my own gravel rides on a 1990s mountain bike. But due to a permanent neck disability I can't handle lower flat bars or most drop bars. So I'm stuck with a less efficient riding position, topping out at around a 14-15 mph average speed and becoming pretty tired after a 40-60 mile ride (in fact I'm resting all weekend after 30 and 45 mile rides Thursday and Friday).

But if you can handle drop bars, you're probably ready for a drop bar gravel bike -- not a cross bike. Different events, distances, conditions, geometry, etc. If I could handle one, that's what I'd go for. And I'm hoping that with more conditioning and perhaps some physical therapy I might be able to handle a drop bar gravel bike to get a lower, more aerodynamic position. That way I could put the same energy into longer rides, or a faster pace on my usual 20-40 mile rides on a mix of pavement and gravel.

Also, if you don't need the suspension fork you'll save some weight with a rigid fork gravel bike. I still occasionally ride my comfort hybrid with heavy suspension fork for rough paved roads and gravel when my neck is aching. I can maintain only a 12 mph average but it's very comfortable. A reasonable compromise for me, but if I didn't have a bum neck I'd go for a rigid fork gravel bike.

For me, the next best compromise would be albatross bars at saddle height. A friend rides with those and it's more aerodynamic than the flat or riser bars typically found on hybrids and mountain bikes. When I ride behind him I see his arms are tucked into his sides, he isn't catching wind in his armpits like I am, yet he looks very comfortable and relaxed compared with those of us riding flat or riser bar hybrids and mountain bikes. And over the past year of riding with him I'm finding it harder to keep pace unless I draft him. On Friday evening's group ride he dropped me after a couple of miles when I lagged too far behind and lost the drafting advantage. So I'm seriously thinking about getting albatross or North Roads bars for my 1990s mountain bike. The hand/arm position would be closer to that of using the drop position on a drop bar with the stem elevated -- arms and elbows closer to the sides.

eugene_b

Yes, this has been precisely my experience - when the road is flat and good I can usually speed up to 15mph but cannot break this speed for any extended periods of time. Even maintaining 15mph sustainably is a challenge, I typically end up going at about 10mph on average. I didn't realize this was mostly a wind resistance issue, since I never road anything with drop bars.

I have never had experience with drop bars and not sure I am ready for a pure road bike yet ( but pretty sure it will be my next purchase in a couple years ), mostly since I do want to have some ability to go off road and I am afraid I might have problems keeping it from crashing. I've googled about cyclocross and it does sound very interesting.

What is the difference between drop bar gravel bike and a cyclocross, I've never heard about gravel bikes before? Also could you share some popular cyclocross and a gravel bike model so that I can do some reading and comparison? My budget is ideally $1000, but up to $1500 is ok; I prefer mechanical disk breaks and probably would prefer rigid forks because if I do want to go on something that rough, I'll just use my hardtail MTB that has lockable front fork.

jase33

The bikes appear to be very similar but have many subtle differences. Check out THIS article as it explains those differences pretty well.

If your looking for a good gravel bike take a look at the Niner Bikes.

The Niner RLT 9 is a good bike to look at. It has mechanical disc brakes and is at the top end of your budget.

katsup

Also look at the Jamis Renegade series and Salsa Vaya. Every brand has one so if you are partial to one brand, you can usually spot their gravel / adventure modes. They make them in Steel, Aluminum and Carbon Fiber, but the later is likely out of your budget.

eugene_b

I've been exploring this category of bikes and have also stumbled on these ones in addition to the ones mentioned above: Diverge Elite A1, Raleigh Mustang Elite, Giant Revolt 1. Do you by chance have any strong preferences for or against these models or the ones you already mentioned above (e.g. Niner RLT 9)? All of these bicycles seem to be in approximately same price range and have very similar positive reviews online so I am struggling to choose between the models. I kind of like the visual look of Raleigh Mustang Elite but wanted to try to compare the specs and people's experiences first.

Also just now stumbled on Raleigh Merit Sport which seems to be carbon and Raleigh USA lists it on a pretty big sale.

gsa103

You need a drop bar bike.

The problem is basically wind resistance, not tires. A hybrid won't be any faster, and may be slower.

eugene_b

Sorry for spamming you with questions but I am a bit confused on the other side of the spectrum now: what is the difference between road bike and gravel bike then? It looks like a lot of bikes tagged as gravel/adventure bikes on the internet, are just listed as road bikes on manufacturer websites. Which specs should I be looking at to differentiate purely road bikes designed for pavement from the ones I can comfortably use to the long rail trails (and potentially carry some luggage for multi day trips with camping).

canklecat

One of the main differences between road and gravel bikes is clearance for wider tires. If you're more comfortable on 700x32 or wider tires, gravel bikes will have the clearance. Many bikes designed specifically for road racing/serious road riding won't handle wider than 700x28. Some gravel bikes may use 650b wheels and somewhat wider tires.

Some may offer vibration dampening devices in the frame or seat post, without getting into full suspension. Although some of the Cannondale Slate bike have not only the left-side-only front support (technically not a fork), some have a front suspension.

There may be some differences in compatibility with accessories -- eyelets for racks and panniers, etc.

fietsbob

Wheel a little smaller 26" with a less fat tire, so gears will feel lower , a little bit.

Craptacular8

I'm apparently the oddball here. I started out riding gravel on a 26" hard tail mtb with gravel "slicks." It worked quite well, and it would turn in fairly respectable performance on pavement thanks to the tires fairly narrow tire contact patch, but, I seldom had pavement to ride, and with the constant wind I encounter riding gravel on the prairie, it could feel at times that I was nearly going backwards. When I look at the bike in profile, it should have put me in nearly the same position as riding a drop bar from the bars/hood, as my seat was substantially higher than my bars, but it never seemed to help my wind resistance much.

So, I built up a gravel bike with drop bars, and 700x38 tires. It is a much more pleasant experience, but then I didn't want to get it quite so dirty all the time in the mud, so I bought a hybrid as a foul weather ride....from what others are saying, you'd think I'd be back to the kind of performance I had with the mtb, but that hasn't been the case. I can hit pretty similar paces to the drop bar for most rides. When I'm in a 30mph headwind, it sucks, and I wish I'd taken the drop bar bike on those occasions, but it still never quite has the extreme resistance I had with a heavier mtb on substantially fatter tires. Profiling the hybrid, it appears to have nearly identical position for me as riding on the hoods, as the seat is level with the bars, and most gravel/adventure bikes do have you more upright than a traditional road bike....so, unless you ride predominantly in the drops, the performance increase from less wind drag might not be as extreme as you'd expect. That said, there is a noticeable performance increase over the mtb whether I'm on the gravel bike, or a newer hybrid. I would average 11.5 on gravel on the mtb....that would include some miles that I could pull of 13.5, and some absolutely horrible miles where I was just averaging 8 something fighting the freaking wind. On pavement, it would allow me to roll along 14-15, but never even had the screaming downhill speed I've had in subsequent bikes. YMMV

rumrunn6

oh man, nice trails! so jealous!

travbikeman

Absolutely love the Pine Creek Rail Trail and the Great Allegheny! Looking forward to riding those again this year! I'm looking forward to one day, in a few years, to riding the John Wayne trail also!

I use my hybrid for these trails, and while it works. I keep going back and forth about either keeping the hybrid for these trail rides or getting a gravel bike so I could go further with the same energy I put into riding.

Kayaksalone

You should be looking at adventure bikes. New Term for gravel bikes. Here's a list of some bikes that fit in that field and ones I'm thinking about. Some of these will have the rack and fender eyelets needed for small touring or bike packing.
Salsa Cutthroat Carbon X9
Raleigh Roker Pro
Jamis Renegade Expat
Diamondback Haanjo Trail
BH Quartz Disc
Cannondale Slate
Canyon Endurance CF SLX

eugene_b

Yeah, I've done a lot of reading these last couple day - gravel/adventure bikes is a completely new category that I've learnt about only after having posted this thread. The bikes you mentioned are a bit out of my price range. For now I want to get something cheaper and juice out as much adventure out of it as I can. But at some point later, once I settle down (I want to end up in the North West in the next couple years), I definitely want to get something fancier, like the bikes you mention.

For now, I think I narrowed down my search to Specialized Diverge A1, Giant Revolt and Niner RLT 9. At the moment I am emailing bike shops around me and arranging to try these out. It's a bit of a pain because I am 6'3" and they typically don't carry such sizes but I think I am finding some places already. I am particularly curious about Niner RLT 9 - many people seem to be very happy about it but I am curious what puts it apart from bikes like Giant Revolt for instance (because the price difference is very noticeable).

travbikeman

There are many affordable gravel bikes out there. Check out Fuji Treads

Performance Bike - bikes, bike accessories, bike gear, cycling equipment, cycling apparel, and more

Or check out what Nashbar has also (which has a current 25% off on bikes):

Nashbar - Welcome!

dplevy81

I put some touring tires and more road friendly gearing on an old well specd MTB I had laying around for my girlfriend to ride. She did one season and a few hundred miles on it last year and really enjoyed it. Last week I surprised her with a brand new Trek FX 7.0. We did a 22 mile ride on paved bike ways around new york city and she said the difference was night and day. She REALLY likes the Trek better on pavement. And this is a base model FX being compared to a MTB with much better components. Hope this answers your question.