botty kayer

@CyclesMakaron I don't know if you have any interest in them, but does your amazing encyclopedic knowledge of Merckx bikes include titanium ones built by Litespeed in the mid to late 90's?

I've got a Merckx EX titanium, and can find little about them online really and was just trying to find out any more info about these bikes I can. All I know is unlike the AX model which was all 3/2.5 ti, the EX has some cool ovalised 6/4 tubes to improve with stiffness. It has my favourite Merckx decals ever with blue script and with a deep yellow shadow, and came with a 1 inch threaded carbon Kestral fork which is of the time and has the Merckx logo stamped on the rear drop outs.

From my admittedly not great google skills, the only ones I found online with a date that had the same graphics were from 1995 and the other I think was 1997. As I understand it the early Merckx ti bikes built by Litespeed were all built to Eddy's geometry, Century geometry? From what I can see it looks like Merckx started making its Titane frames in Belgium from about 1997??, and I assume when they started doing ti in house they stopped using Litespeed, so I assume my frame is from before 1997, but don't know if there was any overlap or what periods exactly Litespeed built frames for Merckx.

I thought I'd check with you first before posting some pics, which I can do here later if you approve/are interested, or if I was better advised trying to date frame and find other info from Litespeed. I was also keen to know if these frames ever used in any pro races, do you or anyone know, and if so who rode them and what races?

Any info gratefully received, many thanks.

Dan

CyclesMakaron

"Eddy Merckx Titanium frames" has not interested me yet, the only information about Ti (as well as Al) I collect "by the way" digging in steel The topic is difficult and requires patience, but:
1) "American Eddy Merckx Ti" - manufactured by Litespeed, without EMC serial numbers and without EMC paint and stickers: AX, EX, Majestic, Millenium (all century geometry). Start of production probably 1994. Your frame belongs to this category.
2) Titane EM produced in EMC from Litespeed tubes (painting and EMC stickers) - custom or team frames, small quantities were produced. Probably the beginning of production in 1994.

3) Titane EM produced at EMC from Columbus tubes. Start of production probably 1997. Painting and stickers - as 2)
So it won't be too easy:
- Armstrong won the World Championship in 1993 - most sources say he used the EM EX model (where was it built?)
- There are frames built by Litespeed, then sent to EMC - painted there - and sent back to the US (do they have EMC markings?).


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botty kayer

Thanks again @CyclesMakaron, despite it not being your area of expertise that's more than I knew.

No my frame does not have any EMC markings, and as the decal on it says it was designed by Eddy but built by Litespeed I'm sure its a USA made one.

While rummaging around on the internet I came across this too which may be a stage prior to the point 1) you listed above.

This is from a 94 Merckx catalogue and mentions the launch of the new 'Titanal'...careful how you type that into google

It says Merckx had worked with an Austrian metallurgical firm (no idea who that was) who supplied titanium that was bonded together with special alloy lugs. I'd never heard of a bonded ti frame before. As it seems Merckx started using Litespeed in 1994, I'm guessing the bonded ti option was not a great success.

Anyway thanks again.

CyclesMakaron

I know the topic superficially: the material, i.e. sheets(!) of laminate consisting in the absolute majority of aluminium (steel and Ti were additives) were formed into tubes. This material was also used to build ski poles and masts. The problem is that the material had a tendency to "return" to its natural shape, i.e. to... spread on the weld! The material was produced by AMAG, frames for EMC were produced by Hagan - 93/94, the number of frames is unknown (if someone gave me such a gift, I would gladly accept it - it's unique; if he told me to ride it - well...)

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botty kayer

After a few recent tweeks this is now done. 1996 Eddy Merckx EX Titanium, features oversize 6/4 biaxially ovalised ti tubing down and seat tube. Designed by Eddy, built by Litespeed.

Although it rides great I don't like the look of the carbon fork, and yearn to return the bike to a full carbon-free status, which apart from the fork it is. As the frame has Merckx Century geometry I think an oversize curved bladed Columbus Max fork, like that fitted to a Merckx MX Leader would fit it perfectly and look the mutts nuts. However finding a 1 inch threaded one with a steerer length of approx 240mm to fit my large frame sounds like a real long shot, but if anyone has one I'll gladly pay shipping from anywhere, and I don't mind considering a tatty one that I can get repainted or re-chromed. Anyone help me turn this from a looker into a stunner?

Anyway here it is, also features my favourite Merckx decals ever.

merziac

I know its not what you want but I would paint the fork in the short term until you can properly correct it. A paint supply should be able to closely match the Ti with a 2 part spray can that could hold you over. Just a thought.

CyclesMakaron

American EM logo has inverted "stripes order" ("rainbow over the Belgian flag" instead of "Belgian flag over the rainbow"). Planned differentiation or a loose approach to the subject - anyone knows?

botty kayer

@merziac yes that had crossed my mind as a last resort, and in truth looks the most likely option, but I will try and search out a steel one for a bit first.

I did actually write to EM HQ in Belgium to ask if they had any forks they could sell or knew of any of their stockists that might have any I could buy. I've not heard back yet.

And blimey @CyclesMakaron you are observant, top skills. I never noticed that and I had my two Eddy's with differing deacls sat right next to each other.

merziac

At the end of the day it would be a fairly easy workaround and of course could be changed up if you procure a real fork.

I have a slightly similar dilemma, but mine is already painted, be forewarned that some here have found it offensive in more ways than one, I however have no problem with it.

MV 10th Anniversary Tribute

Mocked up with DA and Rotor cranks, have a Campy SR 11 crank that I may try too

Millfield Velo

Looking very good, Van ✅✅✅

merziac

Tx Steve, just spitballin with some of the best stuff I have on hand.

So DA over ROTOR for the crank?

Saw Crack

Fun day yesterday in Sydney. Plenty of Merckx goodies including a replica of the Hour bike. Faithfully copied from the bike in Eddy’s house right down to the drilled steerer!

rccardr 

This is the bike I've owned the longest. Was repainted back in 2011, and at the time I knew the chrome was not in the best condition. Over the years, despite careful waxing and cleaning, the chrome got worse and worse. Even though the paint was in great shape, made the decision to go through a total paint & chrome restoration by Jack Trumbull at Franklin Frames. He had done my Davidson, so I knew what to expect in terms of quality.

While we were at it, decided to do a total makeover. The only parts remaining from the prior build are the saddle and frame, everything else is new. Big fan of Dura Ace 740X series, so this mid '84 Pro SLX (thanks for the dating, @CyclesMakaron!) got the full treatment: 7410 crankset with 53/39 rings, correct DA 7410 BB, 7403 brake calipers, 7402 downtube shifters (stripped and polished) and 7402 brake levers. Wheelset is 7700 hubs laced to polished H Plus Son RB-14 rims, with Vittoria Graphene 2.0 skinwalls in size 25. Shimano aero seatpost, Nitto stem, Nitto Noodle bars.

Very happy with the way it turned out, still rides like a dream and the 8 speed DA shifts like buttah. The paint and chrome work...perfect. I may fiddle with the wheels in the future.

Anyway, enough of the description. Here are some pics:

CO_Hoya 

botty kayer

I've just finished building up my new to me Eddy, a Domo Farm Frites MX Leader.

WimVDD

Seen this one before. ^ ;-)

Finished my latest Merckx too: a 1992 Corsa Extra (Columbus Max tubing) "team Kelme".

cycledog1

my favorite era/color of Merckx. well done!

botty kayer

Hi Jacek, do you remember this post you made on my Litespeed built Titanium EX up thread?

I didn't notice myself until you pointed it out, and I've noticed a few other Litespeed built EX's and AX's have the stripes that way round, so I guessed it was maybe something that Merckx specified for bikes built under his name outside Belgium.

But being bored and looking on ebay I just came across this 753 Grand Prix model, which I must point out I am not in the market for, its way too expensive for me.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eddy-Merc...YAAOSw5CNekxCv
I noticed it also has the stripes the same way round as my EX and the other Litespeed ones. As Reynolds 753 required certification/approval from Reynolds, I guess it was usually done by a company's best frame builders, so I assume all the Grand Prix models were made in Belgium, is that correct? It also has the 'Belgium handmade' sticker on the downtube, so I guess yes, though I know care has to be taken assuming frame materials just from decals as they can be added at any time.

So that looks like a Belgian made Merckx with the WC stripes in front of the Belgian stripes, which would make my guess about it being because it was foreign built, wrong. Anyway just thought it interesting and worthy of a mention, if you or anyone else has any guesses for the reason for the head badge decal differences, I'd love to hear them. You think its anything to do with repaints/refurbishments?

I've never seen one with the Belgian colours like the one in the link above either, was this an original or a re-paint do you think? Have you managed to find all the Merckx catalogue pics of the 753 Grand Prix models? I recall seeing another claimed 753 Merckx on ebay back at Xmas that was in a lovely camo colour like my Team Panasonic but it was in green instead of blue, which I'd not seen before, I think it was from about 1988. It had chrome lugs, fork and rear triangle, which surprised me as I thought Reynolds advised against chroming 753. But if Eddy Merckx felt it was OK to chrome 753, then that's good enough for me. Or did they maybe just use 753 for the top, seat and down tubes, and then maybe 531 for the seat and chain stays, and then chromed them?

I've not seen any catalog pics of any chromed 753's so wondered if you have ever come across any? I guess it would only really be for a custom order if it was done, and therefore quite rare, as I imagine no pro team would bother adding chrome to a 753 frame as it adds weight to a frame. None of the 753 frames I've seen, by Merckx or anyone else were chromed, not that I can recall anyway.

CyclesMakaron

Hi! Funny, because right now I'm gathering information about titanium Merckx, I'll probably finally put it all on the next thread (it's gonna take a while, because the topic is... difficult).
You're absolutely right about the "inverted stripes" - This was a pattern designed exclusively for titanium frames built by Litespeed for the US market and sometimes for export (like the "3D" EDDY MERCKX stickers), to begin with in the AX and EX models.
I wrote to the guy from this incredibly expensive 753 (it really is a Corsa Extra 753 and not a Grand Prix). All stickers are wrong (!), those with "stripes" too.
Chrome plating of R753 is another "mysterious" topic - for sure the serial frames were not chrome plated until 1990, but if the customer "insisted"... I wrote to this guy from chrome green 753 - the markings and weight of the frame match the 753, who knows?
The strangest thing is the R653 chrome plating: in all "serious sources" they say that the main triangle was built with R531, and all "stays" with R753 - but it is the stays that are chrome plated... so I thought Merckx might have done the opposite (no evidence). By the way: a story like Merckx "ordered" to create a set of R653, because R753 was too delicate is - as it seems - untrue... A few years before EMC R653 was used by a few large companies, Merckx was building from this frame only for a year... and with R753 - for 10 years (until 1994!).
I come back to titanium Merckx - it's a bit crazy world

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botty kayer

As always, thank you, very interesting as usual.

So the super expensive Belgian Merckx is not what it says it is, that's a bit cheeky for that kind of money.

Funny what you say about the R653, so it possibly had no virtually no 653 in it

If it was only used for a year compared to 10 years for 753, I guess 653 Merckx' are rarer than the 753 ones. I'd always assumed the 753's were rarer, but I assume the 753 Reynolds was more expensive, and sold in lower numbers in any given year than the cheaper alternatives.

I have read somewhere online that if 753 was chromed there were fears it could rust unseen from the inside out, but I've not seen any evidence of this. And people that I know who have ridden 753 have loved it, and if Eddy used it for 10 years he must have thought it pretty good.

Anyway thanks again for sharing your detailed knowledge, good luck with your research, and I look forward to your titanium Merckx update

regards
Dan

CyclesMakaron

The difference between Corsa Extra 753 and Grand Prix is... only in the name - it's not a drama R653 is really rare - in my secret register the score R753 - R653 is 31:7 ! Chrome really masks the rust (masks - does not cause) - currently on ebay is an incredibly beautiful Corsa Extra 753 from 1994 with a... A huge portion of chrome (I just explained the factory markings to the owner - previously he used cadre.org, unfortunately). Back to titanium Merckx... a mild madness Regards

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Saw Crack

The boys were out for a bit of morning sun...

CyclesMakaron

Yeah, this is definitely the right picture for "good morning"...

Saw Crack

And then a very enjoyable 60k on the Panasonic in glorious Canberra autumn weather.

AUPedla

I have the almost identical bike, mine is two tone and has Super Record, 8CP 9516Z, it also does not have the Columbus sticker on the frame or fork, at least you have one.

Coincidentally, the previous owner of my bike found it hanging in a restaurant also.