Izzy77

I really like these models! Great advice

DMC707

I agree ---

My case study is the same route on Strava with 2 high end bikes - but separated by 25 years. There is roughly a 6 pound overall weight difference between these 2. My vintage steel bike is also wearing Gatorskins vs the nice cotton open tubulars on the Specialized.

Both using deep section wheels except one set is current technology carbon and the other set was state of the art (in 1993)

The modern bike felt faster and easier to ride --- The Gatorskin tires on the vintage rig feel sluggish

However --- Strava doesn't lie and I rode the exact same loop 2 days apart -- the new bike was marginally faster due to the gearing -- I had to dismount and walk a couple of hills on the old race bike with its aggressive cassette and 53/39 chainrings. But interestingly enough on the speedy sections, I was 1 mph faster on the old bike (even though the much heavier wheels felt sluggish at takeoff and when coasting ) -

With equivalent gearing, my gut feeling is the results would be very close between the 2.

Midou

Oh i like, look great

PoorInRichfield

Um, WOW... that DeBernadi is gorgeous! Who cares how fast you go on that bike, you'll look good no mater what! How on earth are you keeping the seat and bars so sparkly white?!?

That's an interesting test. Dang, now I want a vintage bike to "do some testing". That sounds like a great reason/justification to fulfill the N+1 thing... I'm doing it for science!

bruce19

As I've said MANY times here, I am all in on Mavic USTs. And, for under $500 for wheels and tires I don't know how you can go wrong.

icemilkcoffee 

That De Bernardi bike is a thing of beauty!

Pratt

I'd opt for diamond, myself

DMC707

Keeping the bars and seat white is easy -- just replace 'em every 2 rides ! -- LOL . But seriously. The bar wrap is a LizardSkins product which is kinda rubbery and it wipes clean with Simple Green fairly easy. The seat is just too new to show too many miles, its a modern production Turbo saddle and I think uses synthetic leather, so should be able to keep pretty clean also --- this was one of my old bikes I restored a few years ago and haven't put many miles on it since the restoration

But I thought id trounce my Strava results with the 2018 bike (I ride the loop on the older bike first) --- it just didn't happen . I will agree the lighter bike has a completely different feel though

smashndash

I’ll echo this. Not to mention that the deep carbon wheels feel worse on climbs (they’re not as springy as my light alloy rims), they’re way stiffer on bumps (which hurts my rear end more), they chip when I hit sharp rocks, and I’m always afraid of cracking them on potholes.

I would say a REALLY nice alloy wheelset is a much better upgrade for rim brake users and possibly even disc brake users. Something like the top end fulcrum wheels.

That being said, the deep carbon wheels are definitely faster once I start going over 20mph. But it’s quite subtle.

pullings

My findings:
My bike: entry level Giant Advance Defy. Has seen better days, but it is a good ride.
My rides: Flat. Smooth Paved fast surface.
I upgraded to carbon wheelset (inexpensive SuperTeam 50mm rim brakes, slatted spokes). No other major changes. Same bike, same tires, same tubes.
I have been base-training now for over two years riding about 100 miles/week on same bike and stock aluminum Giant T2 wheelset.. Rides are around 1.5 hours, and I try to squeez in a 2.5+ hour ride each week.
My target riding intensity for 75% of my riding is Zone2 heart rate (for me that is 116 to 124BPM).
With carbon wheels, my rides (I have 5 routes I rotate) have all increased on average by .75 MPH for duration of the same routes in zone 2 ride. I have shredded my PB times of all 5 rides by almost 1MPH!
I'm not fast, but aero wheels increased my average speed from 16,25MPH to over 17MPH. PS my PB speed is just under 17.65 MPH for my 33 mile route.
Note: Braking is worse on carbon....would not like these for hills.....maybe an aluminum skin brake surface, or better yet, disc brakes if you do a lot of climbs?


Here are the upgrades that I have found gave me real increases in speed.
Of all upgrades, the one that made the biggest difference is to monitor your intensity (power-meter and/or Heart-rate monitor) and engineer your training routine around it. This gave me the biggest performance gain! I cant stress this enough.
Good/fitted road-bike pants/jersey. Helped increase speed a bit compared to loose shorts and tank-top, and I was more comfortable as well. Cost me about $40.
Good tires...I got a good bit of improvement with this upgrade....only cost me about $50. :-)
Carbon frame (not aero).....not a lick in improvement...went back to Giant Advance Defy Alux (aluminum frame).
Carbon aero 50mm wheels w/bladed spokes....biggest "upgrade" performance speed increase of all my upgrades. Frankly, I was very skeptical.
2x10 upgrade to 1x11....not really a speed increase, but I really like my 1X setup. FYI most of my riding is flat in FL, so I do not miss the small ring.

Lilly18

That was really informative. Thanks for sharing!

Sy Reene

So, a bit of a contradiction.. was the PM/HR monitoring and training the biggest contributor over the last 2 years to you now going .75mph faster than you were, or the wheels?

Also, related to the topic, I don't think you really know that the wheels being carbon were the reason your new wheels might be faster. Looking up online for the weight of entry level alloy wheels on Giants from a couple years back, suggest wheelset weight was probably 2-2.1kg. IOW, any halfway decent replacement alloy wheelset could have shaved about 500g off your wheels and may have offered some decent improvement right there. I think finding your size of an improvement when speeds are only in the 16-17mph range, and attributing to solely to CF aero benefit is a bit off.

pullings

Wheels, not training.
I adjusted my training to a structured zone-based HR routine about two years ago. It is an established conditioning base in which my performance has practically plateaued.
Before that I averaging about 15MPH. 15MPH was slow, even for a 58 yr old. I was training wrong.
I bought the wheels 3 months ago after having already established my aerobic base using above routine.
I believe the benefit I am seeing is due to the deep 50mm profile, improved tire-to-rim transition, thinner profile, bladed spokes, and improved hub, not necessarily the carbon material. WHICH CARBON WHEEL is very important and what type of riding (the faster you are to begin with the better aero improvement you will see). 500g of weight also is not much of a factor for me in that my rides are on the flats. When compared to my old wheels, weight difference is minimal.
Every single ride I do for past two years I log distance, zone (HR), time while MOVING (bike computer is GPS distance/speed w/HR) on bike, calculated average. The improvements I am representing here are extrapolated from recorded data metrics over a long period of time. I am very pleased with the improvement I am seeing when compared to my old nothing-special aluminum wheels. :-)
Question: For a person who rides average 17.5MPH (a few 7% hills....up 11MPH, down 25+), what kind of improvement could one see by shaving off 500g of weight?

shelbyfv

I know it's counterintuitive but a wider rim actually does make a given tire both wider and taller. Don't ask me to explain how

but here is a graphic that's been around awhile.

asgelle

How is it the tires go through the rims?

shelbyfv

You'll have to ask HED!

asgelle

Or maybe we should just ignore it (and stop reposting it) since it fails even a cursory test of accuracy.

shelbyfv

Seriously? I don't have any physics past high school much less any mechanical engineering. I'm not going to pretend to understand any of this. If you can explain to HED why it's wrong maybe they'll put out something different.

asgelle

But you have eyes and common sense don't you? Look at at how the tires contact the rim. They don't go around the hook, but emanate from the top of the hooked section. It should be obvious this isn't physically possible.

shelbyfv

Sy Reene

These diagrams were taken from plaster casts of mounted and inflated tires.. hence would be a bit of difficulty getting around the hooks,etc

https://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/...view_4056.html

rydabent

Carbon rims only if you have disc brakes. Rim brakes will just scab up your expensive new rims. Carbons for disc brakes will be lighter and more aero.