What do you think about during a fast descent?
08-22-17, 05:34 PM
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Recently I was on a 47+mph descent on a mountain road in Colorado. I needed to make a right hand turn into a parking lot at the end of my ride. I let go of the bars with one hand to signal the move into the turning lane, while applying the brakes with the other hand. The forward momentum of my body being restrained by the one hand had me quickly thinking "get your other hand back on the bars". Up to that point it was all fun and frivolity.
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08-22-17, 05:45 PM
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If I die during this decent, somebody please erase my browser history!
08-22-17, 07:10 PM
#53
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Recently I was on a 47+mph descent on a mountain road in Colorado. I needed to make a right hand turn into a parking lot at the end of my ride. I let go of the bars with one hand to signal the move into the turning lane, while applying the brakes with the other hand. The forward momentum of my body being restrained by the one hand had me quickly thinking "get your other hand back on the bars". Up to that point it was all fun and frivolity.
At 47 mph you should be halfway to 1955.
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08-22-17, 07:58 PM
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I live 5 miles from the Illinois River and have several 50+ mph drops that are only 1/4-1/3 mile long. Steepness and gravity is all that is required.
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08-22-17, 10:04 PM
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I recently posted a picture of my 3rd tandem. https://www.bikeforums.net/19811453-post153.html
I ran a 57X12. 10 years earlier I ran a 56X11 - but the 11 broke.
Anyway, at 400lbs and with a stoker that could dial up 2000W we hit mid 60s many times - inc that ride.
Things I noticed.
When in 20s I thought nothing.
Early 30s - then - I thought maybe I over inflated my tires.
Later, I thought it would be fun to do that again, but, better to stay home with wife and kids.
I ran a 57X12. 10 years earlier I ran a 56X11 - but the 11 broke.
Anyway, at 400lbs and with a stoker that could dial up 2000W we hit mid 60s many times - inc that ride.
Things I noticed.
When in 20s I thought nothing.
Early 30s - then - I thought maybe I over inflated my tires.
Later, I thought it would be fun to do that again, but, better to stay home with wife and kids.
08-23-17, 09:59 AM
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Mostly position and weight distribution. For me, those things create a successful descent, i.e. I pass everyone. I don't think about cornering at all, I just do it. I don't worry about anything. My wife can now keep her eyes open up to 42 mph.
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08-23-17, 01:25 PM
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Hookers and blow.
Just like pretty much all the time.
Duh.
Just like pretty much all the time.
Duh.
08-23-17, 02:39 PM
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Recently I was on a 47+mph descent on a mountain road in Colorado. I needed to make a right hand turn into a parking lot at the end of my ride. I let go of the bars with one hand to signal the move into the turning lane, while applying the brakes with the other hand. The forward momentum of my body being restrained by the one hand had me quickly thinking "get your other hand back on the bars". Up to that point it was all fun and frivolity.
Seems to work about as well as hand signals for gaining cooperation from drivers. Meaning, not at all.
08-23-17, 03:25 PM
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Periodically I remind myself of what to do physically, i.e., proper [sic] or prudent descending technique...but mostly I try to empty my mind so I can enjoy the sensation, and not be distracted by anything other than the moment.
08-23-17, 04:06 PM
#61
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I usually wonder why the front end of my Allez wobbles at high speed. My mountain bike with drop bars and street tires hurtles down long smooth descents like a Cadillac but the Allez is "shakey". Don't know why. The wheels spin true. Anything else I should check?
I don't do long fast descents on that bike often, so it hasn't been a frequent problem, but since the topic came up...
I don't do long fast descents on that bike often, so it hasn't been a frequent problem, but since the topic came up...
08-23-17, 10:28 PM
#63
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The title says it all: what is actually going through your mind while bombing a descent? ...
Then, I had a minor oopsie on a not very steep or fast descent. Nothing broken...other than my pride. Now, my mind fills up with bad thoughts when I hit the top of the hill: I imagine my tire flatting, hitting a deer, or my frame asploding. It makes descending far less fun.
...
Then, I had a minor oopsie on a not very steep or fast descent. Nothing broken...other than my pride. Now, my mind fills up with bad thoughts when I hit the top of the hill: I imagine my tire flatting, hitting a deer, or my frame asploding. It makes descending far less fun.
...
But to answer your question, I think about what I need to think about. The thoughts come and go and don't get recorded. A steep, fast descent is not the time to waste brain cells and time recording thoughts into long term memory.
Something I explicitly DO NOT think about is what could go wrong. If something goes wrong, it goes wrong. Things are moving much too fast for me to think my way out of a bad situation (such as something breaking, a car popping out from nowhere, a flat tire, etc.). My body/brain will react without conscious interaction; it's simply not something the conscious mind has time to comprehend and react. I trust my body/brain to do the right thing. If something happens too fast for my non-conscious mind to deal with, engaging my conscious mind is not going to be of any more help. To break the cycle of the yips is simply to acknowledge this fact.
If the conscious mind wants to do something to mitigate risk, most of it happens long before the ride even starts... I ensure my tires are inflated before the ride, there is no debris embedded in my tire (I check before each ride), and my bike is in good mechanical condition. The rest is simply to practice best practices when descending: weighting the inside handlebar on turns, deliberately choosing lines, avoiding road debris, keeping my head up and my eyes scanning, etc.
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Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 08-23-17 at 10:39 PM.
08-24-17, 04:38 AM
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You are asking the wrong question. You have the yips, a loss of confidence. The way to get out of that bad head space is to get yourself back into descending. You don't do that by over thinking... you do it by regaining trust in your mind and your machine to keep yourself safe. It's not a question of technique. It's a question of trust. You first need to decide if riding is something important to you... and you keep riding, you need to learn to trust yourself. Acknowledge that sometimes bad things happen and if they do, you'll simply deal with it when it happens.
But to answer your question, I think about what I need to think about. The thoughts come and go and don't get recorded. A steep, fast descent is not the time to waste brain cells and time recording thoughts into long term memory.
Something I explicitly DO NOT think about is what could go wrong. If something goes wrong, it goes wrong. Things are moving much too fast for me to think my way out of a bad situation (such as something breaking, a car popping out from nowhere, a flat tire, etc.). My body/brain will react without conscious interaction; it's simply not something the conscious mind has time to comprehend and react. I trust my body/brain to do the right thing. If something happens too fast for my non-conscious mind to deal with, engaging my conscious mind is not going to be of any more help. To break the cycle of the yips is simply to acknowledge this fact.
If the conscious mind wants to do something to mitigate risk, most of it happens long before the ride even starts... I ensure my tires are inflated before the ride, there is no debris embedded in my tire (I check before each ride), and my bike is in good mechanical condition. The rest is simply to practice best practices when descending: weighting the inside handlebar on turns, deliberately choosing lines, avoiding road debris, keeping my head up and my eyes scanning, etc.
But to answer your question, I think about what I need to think about. The thoughts come and go and don't get recorded. A steep, fast descent is not the time to waste brain cells and time recording thoughts into long term memory.
Something I explicitly DO NOT think about is what could go wrong. If something goes wrong, it goes wrong. Things are moving much too fast for me to think my way out of a bad situation (such as something breaking, a car popping out from nowhere, a flat tire, etc.). My body/brain will react without conscious interaction; it's simply not something the conscious mind has time to comprehend and react. I trust my body/brain to do the right thing. If something happens too fast for my non-conscious mind to deal with, engaging my conscious mind is not going to be of any more help. To break the cycle of the yips is simply to acknowledge this fact.
If the conscious mind wants to do something to mitigate risk, most of it happens long before the ride even starts... I ensure my tires are inflated before the ride, there is no debris embedded in my tire (I check before each ride), and my bike is in good mechanical condition. The rest is simply to practice best practices when descending: weighting the inside handlebar on turns, deliberately choosing lines, avoiding road debris, keeping my head up and my eyes scanning, etc.
One thing, though: I can understand favoring the inside handlebar in a turn, but I'm cautious about weighting the bars. Making sure ones grip is light goes a long way to making descents (especially over less-than-perfect surfaces) enjoyable. I get the sense you know what you're talking about, but it seems weighting the pedals, and the outside pedal especially, is much more important. Thinking about how to make the descent more like flying usually helps me; being tense hurts, so to mitigate that, I sort of direct any tension I feel down through the legs, which has the benefit of unweighting the saddle and making adjustments for turns smoother and more natural.
Oh: I bet you ride in the drops all the time, Brian, but there may be a few people out there who don't know to do that on long, fast descents - it's not just for aero.
Last edited by kbarch; 08-24-17 at 04:48 AM.
08-24-17, 06:33 AM
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Yeah, not sure what he meant, either. All it takes for high speed is steepness and there is plenty of that in Illinois and Wisconsin.
I live 5 miles from the Illinois River and have several 50+ mph drops that are only 1/4-1/3 mile long. Steepness and gravity is all that is required.
I live 5 miles from the Illinois River and have several 50+ mph drops that are only 1/4-1/3 mile long. Steepness and gravity is all that is required.
08-24-17, 07:47 AM
#66
Senior Member
Great summary.
One thing, though: I can understand favoring the inside handlebar in a turn, but I'm cautious about weighting the bars. Making sure ones grip is light goes a long way to making descents (especially over less-than-perfect surfaces) enjoyable. I get the sense you know what you're talking about, but it seems weighting the pedals, and the outside pedal especially, is much more important. Thinking about how to make the descent more like flying usually helps me; being tense hurts, so to mitigate that, I sort of direct any tension I feel down through the legs, which has the benefit of unweighting the saddle and making adjustments for turns smoother and more natural.
Oh: I bet you ride in the drops all the time, Brian, but there may be a few people out there who don't know to do that on long, fast descents - it's not just for aero.
One thing, though: I can understand favoring the inside handlebar in a turn, but I'm cautious about weighting the bars. Making sure ones grip is light goes a long way to making descents (especially over less-than-perfect surfaces) enjoyable. I get the sense you know what you're talking about, but it seems weighting the pedals, and the outside pedal especially, is much more important. Thinking about how to make the descent more like flying usually helps me; being tense hurts, so to mitigate that, I sort of direct any tension I feel down through the legs, which has the benefit of unweighting the saddle and making adjustments for turns smoother and more natural.
Oh: I bet you ride in the drops all the time, Brian, but there may be a few people out there who don't know to do that on long, fast descents - it's not just for aero.
I used to think like you do. I had trouble in crits and downhill corners, fighting my bike around the corner. I experimented with pushing my outside bar (seemed intuitive to "steer" into the corner)... this had the opposite effect as intended: my bike tended to straighten out. So I went the other way pushng my inside bar and the bike just railed through the corner. Later I found this is exactly how motorcyclists and cyclists are taught to corner.
I had to learn the hard way. Turns out cornering has nothing to do with steering your bike around the corner and has everything to do with moving your center of gravity to the inside your wheel track. Pushing your inside bar steers the bike out from under you (countersteering) moving the wheel track out from under your center of gravity allowing the bike to turn.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 08-24-17 at 07:55 AM.
08-24-17, 08:08 AM
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Your front tire is what steers your bike. Unless traction is super spotty, you want weight on your front wheel so your bike goes where you want it to go. Try it. Your bike just rails around corners if you put the weight on the inside handlebar. Good cornering technique is weight on the inside handlebar and outside pedal. You don't need to be in the drops to do this, but drops are more stable.
I used to think like you do. I had trouble in crits and downhill corners, fighting my bike around the corner. I experimented with pushing my outside bar (seemed intuitive to "steer" into the corner)... this had the opposite effect as intended: my bike tended to straighten out. So I went the other way pushng my inside bar and the bike just railed through the corner. Later I found this is exactly how motorcyclists and cyclists are taught to corner.
I had to learn the hard way. Turns out cornering has nothing to do with steering your bike around the corner and has everything to do with moving your center of gravity to the inside your wheel track. Pushing your inside bar steers the bike out from under you (countersteering) moving the wheel track out from under your center of gravity allowing the bike to turn.
I used to think like you do. I had trouble in crits and downhill corners, fighting my bike around the corner. I experimented with pushing my outside bar (seemed intuitive to "steer" into the corner)... this had the opposite effect as intended: my bike tended to straighten out. So I went the other way pushng my inside bar and the bike just railed through the corner. Later I found this is exactly how motorcyclists and cyclists are taught to corner.
I had to learn the hard way. Turns out cornering has nothing to do with steering your bike around the corner and has everything to do with moving your center of gravity to the inside your wheel track. Pushing your inside bar steers the bike out from under you (countersteering) moving the wheel track out from under your center of gravity allowing the bike to turn.
) and recognized that old feeling again. Thanks for the reminder.
08-24-17, 08:15 AM
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During the ride last night I was more cognizent of what I think about during decents for 2 reasons. 1) this thread. 2) A friend of mine scared the crap out of himself last week because he incured a speed wobble on a decent.
So I paid attention to what I was doig last night. The first thing I noticed was while tucking I insticively grip the seat tighter with my thighs and bring my knees in closer to the top tube. I am also looking way ahead which came in handy last night. I was catching up to another rider and I was closing in on 43mph. He was riding more to the left of the lane. I didn't want to take my eyes of the road to look back to see if it was safe to move further right to get around him. So I barely crossed the yelow line. As I did, a Jeep came around the corner coming up at me. At this point I knew my pass wasn't going to happen so I sat up, applied minimal brakes, checked my rear and moved right.
So while decending I think about how fast I can go, where other vehicles are, where other riders are. The thought of wrecking never enters my mind, I don't need that fear entering my mind. If it happens it happens and I will deal with it after. I also wonder why I decend faster than other riders. A few times last night I was just tucking and I was still catching riders that were pedaling down the hill.
So I paid attention to what I was doig last night. The first thing I noticed was while tucking I insticively grip the seat tighter with my thighs and bring my knees in closer to the top tube. I am also looking way ahead which came in handy last night. I was catching up to another rider and I was closing in on 43mph. He was riding more to the left of the lane. I didn't want to take my eyes of the road to look back to see if it was safe to move further right to get around him. So I barely crossed the yelow line. As I did, a Jeep came around the corner coming up at me. At this point I knew my pass wasn't going to happen so I sat up, applied minimal brakes, checked my rear and moved right.
So while decending I think about how fast I can go, where other vehicles are, where other riders are. The thought of wrecking never enters my mind, I don't need that fear entering my mind. If it happens it happens and I will deal with it after. I also wonder why I decend faster than other riders. A few times last night I was just tucking and I was still catching riders that were pedaling down the hill.
08-24-17, 12:38 PM
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Her, "Well, it's only 3 miles from you office to our house. You better get to walking fast if you want to make it back there by dark. It's supposed to rain also."
Me, "Ok, I'll see you when I get there."
I hang up the phone and go into a fast walk. After I got back to the car, I went to Lowes and got a magnetic key box with a spare. It was a brisk 6 mile walk. The rain also came earlier than expected.
08-24-17, 01:15 PM
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08-24-17, 01:43 PM
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40+ mph is no big deal if you have the proper road for it.
I am doing 43mph at 2:20.
At 2:25 I am braking hard to get down to 30mph, (or less), as I cross the pedestrian zebra crossing.
Cops have been know to hang out there to ticket cyclists.
I used Youtube stabilization due to the wind shaking the camera in the first half, and the lumpy asphalt shaking the whole bike in the second half.
Map of the ride: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.9...e3!4m2!4m1!3e0
The whole area is in sort of a large bowl, protected on the North, West, and South sides, so there is rarely any significant wind there. However, on one rare day I did that descent with a tailwind and was doing 55mph before braking for the crosswalk. In the winter it is common to have a strong tailwind on the last third and be able to cruise the last portion at 35mph.
Points for anyone who can identify the movie that featured the building at the beginning.
I am doing 43mph at 2:20.
At 2:25 I am braking hard to get down to 30mph, (or less), as I cross the pedestrian zebra crossing.
Cops have been know to hang out there to ticket cyclists.
I used Youtube stabilization due to the wind shaking the camera in the first half, and the lumpy asphalt shaking the whole bike in the second half.
Map of the ride: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.9...e3!4m2!4m1!3e0
The whole area is in sort of a large bowl, protected on the North, West, and South sides, so there is rarely any significant wind there. However, on one rare day I did that descent with a tailwind and was doing 55mph before braking for the crosswalk. In the winter it is common to have a strong tailwind on the last third and be able to cruise the last portion at 35mph.
Points for anyone who can identify the movie that featured the building at the beginning.
Last edited by Shimagnolo; 08-24-17 at 01:50 PM.
