Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

M5 x 0.8 threaded bolts... Are there no standards?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

M5 x 0.8 threaded bolts... Are there no standards?

Old 12-21-18, 11:33 AM
  #1  
rhm
multimodal commuter
Thread Starter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,852

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times in 339 Posts
M5 x 0.8 threaded bolts... Are there no standards?

Pardon my rant, but...

I have M5 x 0.8 bolts on probably every bicycle I own. They hold on the fenders, water bottle cages, racks, and so on. I like them.

And I like being able to use Allen wrenches on them.

But some are stainless steel, some are black, some are chromed, and some are just rusty. Worse, they take every imaginable size wrench from 2 mm to 5 mm. Many of the smaller ones no longer take any known Allen wrench size, the hexagonal hole having gotten rounded out somehow.

I would like to replace them all with some standard size, in stainless steel. Any suggestions where to get good ones?
rhm is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 11:40 AM
  #2  
base2 
I am potato.
 
base2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,074

Bikes: Only precision built, custom high performance elitist machines of the highest caliber. 🍆

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1765 Post(s)
Liked 1,579 Times in 911 Posts
Ace Hardware. They are a hardware store, not a home improvement store...There is a difference.

Ace has a pretty remarkable stainless metric fastener selection. McClendon's might be helpful if you have one near by.

Then of course, Amazon if you need something particularly long. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XK...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Last edited by base2; 12-21-18 at 01:22 PM.
base2 is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 11:45 AM
  #3  
steelbikeguy
Senior Member
 
steelbikeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 4,450
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1820 Post(s)
Liked 3,330 Times in 1,564 Posts
McMaster Carr has just about every variation of hardware available.... https://www.mcmaster.com/

It's rather handy to just pick up a box of 10mm M5 socket head bolts in stainless, along with washers, nuts, etc, as needed.
Browse through their offerings and you'll be amazed at all the variations!

Steve in Peoria
steelbikeguy is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 12:16 PM
  #4  
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,127
Mentioned: 480 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3788 Post(s)
Liked 6,574 Times in 2,580 Posts
Hey, are you trying to disrupt your history of having every tool except for the correct one in your kit?
nlerner is online now  
Old 12-21-18, 12:25 PM
  #5  
oddjob2
Still learning
 
oddjob2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North of Canada, Adirondacks
Posts: 11,620

Bikes: Still a garage full

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 847 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 44 Posts
https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pro...yABEgLOUPD_BwE

$17 for 50 is a good deal, I did not search for 8mm.
oddjob2 is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 12:58 PM
  #6  
Hudson308 
Mr. Anachronism
 
Hudson308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Somewhere west of Tobie's
Posts: 2,093

Bikes: fillet-brazed Chicago Schwinns, and some other stuff

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 526 Post(s)
Liked 256 Times in 165 Posts
Originally Posted by base2
Ace Hardware. They are a hardware store, not a home improvement store...There is a difference.

Ace has a pretty remarkable stainless metric fastener selection.
+1 for Ace. They carry a commendable selection of Metric and SAE hardware in various materials/finishes.
I personally prefer the button head variations over socket heads.
__________________
"My only true wisdom is in knowing I have none" -Socrates
Hudson308 is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 01:16 PM
  #7  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
snowed in?

Here we have a Marine Hardware store with lots of Stainless steel hardware, because the Commercial fishing industry they serve is operating at Sea..



Industrial fastener stores offer boxes of hundreds..

cap screw button head, flat head.. or use all the same and in only one length?







.....

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-21-18 at 01:24 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 01:50 PM
  #8  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 652 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4719 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,034 Times in 1,874 Posts
You can say the same thing for every bolt of a given thread size. The threads will be the same but there's a huge variety of materials, finishes, heads, drives and lengths. If you want consistency, buy bulk and start replacing. My preferred source was Fastenal, until my local store stopped selling directly to the public. Now, they'll only deal with businesses and contractors.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 03:07 PM
  #9  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,414
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 27 Times in 25 Posts
I have used Bolt Depot.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 03:12 PM
  #10  
gugie 
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,641

Bikes: It's complicated.

Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4670 Post(s)
Liked 5,769 Times in 2,272 Posts
bulk buy thru McMaster-Carr is the way I go.
gugie is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 03:18 PM
  #11  
nfmisso
Nigel
 
nfmisso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,991

Bikes: 1980s and 1990s steel: CyclePro, Nishiki, Schwinn, SR, Trek........

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
https://www.amazon.com/TOPINSTOCK-St.../dp/B07119C2VW

50 for $8.99 delivered. Make sure to use a bit of lubricant when going into aluminum with stainless steel fasteners to prevent galling.
nfmisso is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 03:49 PM
  #12  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,522

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4559 Post(s)
Liked 2,798 Times in 1,798 Posts
I just received a batch ordered through Amazon. My neighborhood hardware store shut down and it's a hassle to get to the next closest hardware store. So I ordered this container of 110 bolts and nuts for $10. Stainless steel socket cap hex heads -- easier to start by hand, and my multi-tools already have the right tool.

I was re-doing the fenders and racks on one bike and realized it was a hodge podge like the OP described -- a mess of stainless and rusted carbon steel, socket cap hex heads, button heads, Philips, a couple of slotted screws, a couple that needed an 8mm wrench (probably the strongest but not as convenient). Wotta mess.

I settled on socket caps with knurled edges because even if the hole gets buggered it's still possible to remove them with pliers or Vise Grips.

I'll probably order another batch of button heads to avoid interfering with other nearby stuff. Only problem with button heads is there's nothing to grab to remove one that's jammed, so we'd need to slot them or file the edges to have something to grab. But the knurled socket caps are handy for most stuff.

I also need to order a tap to chase the threads on one lug that was already buggered when I bought the bike used. Didn't notice it until I removed the fenders and racks but the M5 bolt was basically just jammed, crammed and cross-threaded into a buggered lug. I might need a tap to thread it to the next size up.

If you need washers, solid or lock washers, it might be necessary to order those separately. My $10 kit didn't include washers.

Ditto Loctite for instances where there isn't enough room for even a single thin washer.
canklecat is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 05:30 PM
  #13  
79pmooney
Senior Member
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,830

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4746 Post(s)
Liked 3,861 Times in 2,510 Posts
I actually like the various options. Different applications are best met with different style fasteners I like hex heads better for FD cable clamps on bikes with close rear wheels. Allen heads for the same clamp on the RD.

Ben
79pmooney is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 07:34 PM
  #14  
wesmamyke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 76 Posts
The non metric Blackburn hardware is the most annoying, that stuff is just everywhere in the bolt bins. Metric thread, but they take an American standard allen wrench.
wesmamyke is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 08:03 PM
  #15  
RiddleOfSteel
Master Parts Rearranger
 
RiddleOfSteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portlandia's Kuiper Belt, OR
Posts: 4,680

Bikes: 1982 Trek 720 - 1985 Trek 620 - 1984 Trek 620 - 1980 Trek 510 - Other luminaries past and present

Mentioned: 221 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1553 Post(s)
Liked 2,006 Times in 984 Posts
Originally Posted by wesmamyke
The non metric Blackburn hardware is the most annoying, that stuff is just everywhere in the bolt bins. Metric thread, but they take an American standard allen wrench.
That's pretty much as convenient as working on my '97 Camaro. "Hey, would you like to need SAE, metric, AND Torx bits on your car, perhaps on a single component??? Have we got a era of vehicles for you to choose from!"

To the OP, yeah, McMaster-Carr is fantastic. So much to choose from! And when you're working on any CAD projects and need bolt models or specs, they're right there.

If local hardware stores are available and good, then that's always nice because you can actually hold them in your hand and find thin washers to go with them etc. McClendons, spoken like someone who lives in the greater Seattle area.
RiddleOfSteel is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 09:15 PM
  #16  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,323
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3449 Post(s)
Liked 2,800 Times in 1,974 Posts
Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel
That's pretty much as convenient as working on my '97 Camaro. "Hey, would you like to need SAE, metric, AND Torx bits on your car, perhaps on a single component??? Have we got a era of vehicles for you to choose from!"

To the OP, yeah, McMaster-Carr is fantastic. So much to choose from! And when you're working on any CAD projects and need bolt models or specs, they're right there.

If local hardware stores are available and good, then that's always nice because you can actually hold them in your hand and find thin washers to go with them etc. McClendons, spoken like someone who lives in the greater Seattle area.
I have grown to accept the silliness of GM fasteners. Blame it on Roger Smith who wanted to go metric. He was able to push Saturn that way.
The rest of the company resisted as they could. One reason was in the USA metric fasteners were much more expensive compared to SAE. The bean counters often prevailed.

Now, Volkswagen... Spline drive, triple square drive.... some other standard that kind of looks like torx, but has 5 points...
If you have ever taken apart a 10-12 year old Jetta interior... you will be cursing the quantity of times you must change drive bits. And amazed at the wide range of fastener diameters heads and lengths. Stupid.
Diabolical.
Expensive, if they put some thought into it, they could reduce the cost of assembling a vehicle by a very measurable amount.
The probable best in class is Mazda. Followed by Toyota. they tried to really use the same style and size of fastener as much as possible. A #2 phillips and a 10 mm socket and you can do a lot quickly.

Tesla? Oh dear, now there is a short position profit "investment".
repechage is offline  
Old 12-21-18, 10:03 PM
  #17  
RiddleOfSteel
Master Parts Rearranger
 
RiddleOfSteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portlandia's Kuiper Belt, OR
Posts: 4,680

Bikes: 1982 Trek 720 - 1985 Trek 620 - 1984 Trek 620 - 1980 Trek 510 - Other luminaries past and present

Mentioned: 221 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1553 Post(s)
Liked 2,006 Times in 984 Posts
The Japanese tend to nail that stuff really well. Germans...being Germans. I think I'll take my three drive standards + crummy interior fasteners over a Jetta's any time.

...I'll also take the not insignificant V8 horsepower and torque, too. That thrust and the accompanying soundtrack help dissolve much frustration.
RiddleOfSteel is offline  
Old 12-22-18, 09:18 AM
  #18  
AZORCH
Senior Member
 
AZORCH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Liberty, Missouri
Posts: 3,132

Bikes: 1966 Paramount | 1971 Raleigh International | ca. 1970 Bernard Carre | 1989 Waterford Paramount | 2012 Boulder Brevet | 2019 Specialized Diverge

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 40 Posts
We have a local-to-us family-owned hardware store, not affiliated with any chain. They've been around for about a hundred years and have a remarkable selection of even the most difficult to source bolts and other fasteners, all sorted and stowed away in drawer after drawer in aisles of antique wooden storage. Used to be that every town or section of the city had a place like this and we're fortunate to still have ours - there's a similar place in the next town over from here. Anyway, it's not unusual for me to visit them in search of some odd or end, and they nearly always have what I'm looking for, no matter how esoteric.

I don't buy in bulk - there's no need, they're a quarter mile away. They sell nuts and bolts one at a time, so if I need an M5 it sets me back seven cents. A matching washer? Another two or three cents. It actually keeps those stray pennies in my car sort of relevant. I have no idea how they stay in business with me buying things 23 cents at a time.
AZORCH is offline  
Old 12-22-18, 12:36 PM
  #19  
rhm
multimodal commuter
Thread Starter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,852

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times in 339 Posts
Originally Posted by nlerner
Hey, are you trying to disrupt your history of having every tool except for the correct one in your kit?
Not at all. If I can ensure that all the bolts on my bike have the same size head, I will know exactly which one not to bring. It leaves less to chance this way.
rhm is offline  
Old 12-22-18, 12:37 PM
  #20  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,936

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3571 Post(s)
Liked 3,368 Times in 1,916 Posts
Originally Posted by wesmamyke
The non metric Blackburn hardware is the most annoying, that stuff is just everywhere in the bolt bins. Metric thread, but they take an American standard allen wrench.
IIRC, those weren't metric thread, but rather SAE 10-32, which is close enough to work in a 5 x 0.8mm hole. And they came with a 1/8" Allen key.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 12-22-18, 01:18 PM
  #21  
wesmamyke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 76 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
IIRC, those weren't metric thread, but rather SAE 10-32, which is close enough to work in a 5 x 0.8mm hole. And they came with a 1/8" Allen key.
That would make more sense, also means I have a bunch of 10-32 nylock nuts in my misc metric hardware.
wesmamyke is offline  
Old 12-22-18, 02:02 PM
  #22  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times in 3,338 Posts
Hmm

Time to order some more bolts.

You know, if I had my preference, I'd standardize everything to 5mm Allen wrenches. That seems to be one of the most versatile bike wrench sizes.

I think they're called "socket cap" or "socket head" with the cylinder shaped heads. Titanium also has "tapered head" bolts that are popular.

These look like they will work well. Unfortunately I can't tell the wrench size. They appear to be 4mm or 5mm, but not specified.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10X-Bike-Bi...w/253349799400

For the Amazon users, and Knurled (4mm wrench).
https://www.amazon.com/M5-0-80-Socke.../dp/B01L0E1B2U

Actually, thinking about it, there may be strength benefits of going with one wrench size smaller than the bolt size, so 4mm? Although, I don't think I've ever had a bolt sheer at through the wrench socket.

I really don't like the round head 5mm bolts with say 2 or 3mm Allen Wrench sockets.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 12-22-18, 02:53 PM
  #23  
rhm
multimodal commuter
Thread Starter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,852

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times in 339 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK
...Unfortunately I can't tell the wrench size. They appear to be 4mm or 5mm, but not specified....
​​​​​​
That's the problem with a lot of these.

I would be fine with either, but I think I have a lot of 4 mm ones already, so I'd start there.
rhm is offline  
Old 12-22-18, 06:22 PM
  #24  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,664 Times in 2,497 Posts
there isn't a standard for the wrench size, unfortunately. I recently back-filled my selection of 5 and 6mm bolts from McMaster, and they are shipping Chinese hardware now instead of U.S. made. At least for the stainless bolts I got. They seem fine though.

I would just pick one bolt style. I like button head screws if they will work, so that's another size.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 12-22-18, 08:53 PM
  #25  
Reynolds 531 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reno nevada
Posts: 784

Bikes: a few that I can't recall

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked 287 Times in 142 Posts
Originally Posted by nfmisso
https://www.amazon.com/TOPINSTOCK-St.../dp/B07119C2VW

50 for $8.99 delivered. Make sure to use a bit of lubricant when going into aluminum with stainless steel fasteners to prevent galling.
And actually, these bolts are all China sourced and not that great of thread quality, so I recommend lubricating just in general. I use a copper-free anti-seize and a $13 bottle will last me until I die..
Reynolds 531 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.