jcoll003

So I know a Campy ergo 8 speed shifter will work with an 8 speed Campy rear derailleur with shimano-compatible 7 speed freewheels on 126mm rear spacing. My question is will that same setup work with 7 speed Campy RD's?

I know the 7 speed Campy stuff won't have been engineered for indexing, but if it still has the same throw, shouldn't it work just as well? I only ask because there is a dearth of 8 speed Campy RD's, and 7 speeds would give me more options.

Thanks in advance!

Soody

I'm not sure sorry, but you could also use an old style 9 speed campy RD with 8 speed ergos on a campy 8 or Shimano 7 rear block.

Campy old 9 and 8 speed derailers are interchangeable like with Shimano.

A third rear wheel option for 8 speed ergos is an 8 speed Shimano cassette with 7 speed shimano spacers (or just the 8 cassette, although it won't be perfect).

Another option i'm thinking of doing with my 8 speed Carbon Ergos is to have them serviced and upgraded to 9 speed internals. That would allow use of a 7 speed shimano cassette with a 7 speed shimano rear mech, or a 9 speed campagnolo cassette with an old 8/9 speed mech (9 campy cassette fits on 11/10 speed campy wheels), or with a new 9 or 10 campy rear mech & an 8 speed shimano cassette. If i lived in America, i would send them off to Branford Bike to have this done. I'm pretty sure they have all the necessary parts.

https://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-libra...gears/shimergo

plonz 

I sure hope it does because I plan to put an 8 speed cog on my Colnago using the 2nd gen Campy record derailleur. I'm going to stick with friction shifters though. IIRC, I read the derailleur can handle an 8 speed. Not sure if indexing creates an issue though.

RobbieTunes

Basically, no. 7 is 7, 8 is 8.
Anything else is pretty much luck.

So, are you feeling lucky?

jcoll003

Just don't call me punk!

Ok - so you seem to indicate a 7 RD won't work with the Campy 8 ergo levers with a Shimano-compatible 7-speed freehub, but why? (I'm meaning no disrespect, just asking for clarification).

The spacing on the freehub is 5mm between cogs, and (I think) all standard 7-speeds and Campagnolo 8-speed derailleurs would have had to move to the same spacing, right? Do Campagnolo 7-speed derailleurs have a different shift ratio than the 8-speed RD's? Hmm. Does anyone know where I can find shift ratios for the Campagnolo RD's?

Wildwood 

This ^^ = +1

But some folks are a bit more out of the box than others.
I've been running 10 sp cassettes on a 9 speed drive train with Jtek device - and it's not too bad. But not too good either, so the 9spd drivetrain will get an upgrade to 10. That's always the best solution - if the bike is worthy - spend the few extra $$$ to make it stop and go well.

jcoll003

The only part of the equation I can't get is the pull figure for Campagnolo 7-speed shifters. I have seen some circumstantial hubub on the interwebz indicating it may work... (from an old forum archive)

"Any Campagnolo 8 speed Ergopower, downtube or bar-end shifter will also work perfectly with a Campagnolo 7 speed system. The amount of cable pull is identical for Campagnolo 7 and 8 speed systems." source

I just wish I could find more reputable info on this.

Wildwood 

Some things take more time and are less definitive than just putting the pieces in place and trying it.

dddd

If you were to pair a Capag 1st-version 9-speed shifter with a Shimano rear mech, the indexing would be right on for a standard 6-speed cassette or freewheel, not 7-speed.

Similarly, if you use a Campag 10-speed shifter with a Shimano rear mech, then you will index an 8-speed Shimano cassette quite well, which is very nearly the same as 7-speed cassette in terms of spacing.

See this article first.

Rear Shifting | CTC

Another excellent article, though there is one small typo regarding the cable pull of the 10 and 11-speed SRAM "Exact Actuation" shifters, which are different, not the same 3.1mm as stated.

Art's Cyclery Blog » Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility

Note that I did once get a Campag 8s Ergolever to index a standard five or six-speed freewheel using a Shimano derailer that was set up with the "hubbub" method of cable attachment. That setup is shown below:

jcoll003

Alright - I'm going to try a 9-speed pre-2000 Campy derailleur and see how that goes. Thanks for all of the input everyone!

mtnbke

There is that weird 2001 change with Campy where the amount of cable pulled changes, with their shifters/derailleurs but Campy was already doing 9/10 speed then. Just keep that in mind when mixing/matching. Pre-2001 stuff of the same "speed" might work for some frankenbiking while post-2001 stuff might not, and vice versa.

Also keep in mind that Sachs New Success Ergolevers are blatantly Campagnolo. They didn't even try to hide it. They say Sachs but they didn't even replace the Campagnolo hoods. Those are great Ergolevers and actually Shimano 7/8-speed spacing compatible, more so than Campagnolo 8 is Shimano 7/8 spacing compatible. Brilliant kit, but the peloton didn't buy it and Sachs sold to SRAM and now SRAM is an 800-lb gorilla too. They are stupid cheap and if you match the Sachs Ergo levers with the Sachs derailleurs you get very clean beautiful looking kit that is rare and interesting, that shifts Shimano spacing 6/7/8 flawlessly, and the derailleurs even have titanium pulley bolts, "centeron" patent pulley technology. They aren't cache and your anesthesiologist never bought them to impress the otolaryngologist in his group ride, but they ARE Campy Ergos which give you trim up front, you can use ubiquitous Shimano compatible wheelsets, and you aren't pushing tolerances getting marginal shifting with your Campy 8 Shimano 7 frankenhash. That gives you 0.2mm of "incompatibility" between the 5.0mm cassette spacing of Campagnolo 8-speed and Shimano 6/7/8 spacing of 4.8mm. Is that enough for floppy indexing, with a floating pulley? Probably which you're attesting to. However, why not just have your cake and eat it too? Sachs New Success, heck try them with Campy derailleurs and your freewheel and see if the shifting doesn't improve. Heck, just see if you can find the Sachs New Success indexing ring and use that in what you already have, it might just work. I don't know if you need the Sachs New Success derailleurs or not. I'm not sure if Campy derailleurs work with the Sachs/Campy Ergos or not.

Roadhork

Hi, all, first post from a longtime lurker. Please forgive me for assuming anyone will just believe what I'm saying with no bona fides but one has to make a beginning somewhere, no?

There is a lot of crosspollination between Sachs and Campy in the 7/8 speed period and it's my belief that Sachs simply copied Campy index-compatible derailleur proportions. I can say that I have a Sachs Quarz long-cage RD in use with Campy Ergo 8s and a SRAM 13-32 7-speed and it works flawlessly. I have heard, but haven't confirmed, that this lever/cassette combination also works with the earlier Rival RD without the slant mount as well as some Suntour RDs though I doubly couldn't say which (just eyeballin' it, the Vx looks promising).

Hope this helps.

jcoll003

Thanks for all of the replies! I was able to find a nice 8-speed Chorus RD - just have to wait for it to get here. I was just curious what all other rears would work with this. When it gets here, I may just try setting it up with the 6 speed RD on my Trek now just to see if it's possible. The cable throw and shift ratios that I see quoted for other old campy RD's look like they should work... but, it'll be an interesting experiment!

Roadhork

One day I hope to embark on The Great Database: every indexed shifter tried with every derailleur and every cogset. One day.

RobbieTunes

Basically, I do not know the why or why not on this stuff, I've just tried some combo's over the years, and while I'm grateful for the slop in some 7 and 8 speed setups that allowed me to mix, I actually prefer the G'rAnimals approach. With me, it's Error and Trial, and rare is the time that ignorance is bliss, at least with mixing the species of bike parts.