merlinextraligh

^ but a modern steel frame is a dramatic technological advance from a 1916 steel bike in its own right.

garysol1 

You do realize that the Tour's course, mileage and vertical feet climbed change every year so comparing Induran's speed and time to Contador is pointless.......

dcsix

Not a direct comparison, sure, but that little factoid is far from pointless imho.

garysol1 

So many variables..... and I have no dog in this fight. I love old school steel bikes and I dig my carbon bikes but the comparison is pointless without more data. Was there a team time trial? I could see one or two extra climbing days dramatically affecting the overall speed......etc...... I do agree that apples to apples a old school race bike vs a newer bike there will not be a huge time difference but none of us are racing the Tour. What we want are safer bikes (STI VS Downtube) we want better shifting bikes, we want better stopping bikes, we want more compliance....etc.... These are all things that modern technology has given us.

espi-JG

Thanks for asking! It rides great. I've got about 110 miles on it so far and this thing flies. Brakes are strong and the transmission is flawless. Besides the weight, I'm not sure why people hate on 105, I love the group. So this is the third bike I've bought online so I have my sizing figured out (hence the integrated bars and stem length). I also ride a Cinelli Vigorelli and the geometries are incredibly similar so I knew I'd like the characteristics of the Chinarello.


nds fail

noodle soup

Who hates on 105?

noodle soup

a better comparison would be the hour record. That record time keeps droping.

garysol1 

Agreed. What do we think contributes to that? Better training or better bikes and gear....

rpenmanparker 

The bike design is restricted to make the numbers comparable.

noodle soup

IMO, both. Diet and training science have improved greatly over the past 30 years, but so have the bikes(and aerodynamics).

garysol1 

within reason that's true but don't you think wind tunnel testing has helped to fine tune the frames and other components as well as helmets and skin suits to help make the times faster year after year? I really don't know.... just throwing that out there.

mpath

UCI.

And Specialized's "response". The FUCI bike (warning: slight nsfw ) ?Eff You See Eye? | Very Special Things

Marcus_Ti

Specialized's response is a impractical, ugly, bastardized moped.

THAT WILL SHOW the UCI. What an idiot at Specialized.

garysol1 

Well actually yes you are telling people it's Pinarello by using the stickers on your Chinese frame. Your telling everyone without ever opening your mouth.

rpenmanparker 

OP, the worst part is that most unbranded choices would have come with a better warranty, sported a better reputation, and been an honest representation of what they are. If you really weren't trying to fool folks, you could have accomplished all your goals with a Hong-fu, Deng-fu or Workswell frame. Taken the challenge and learned how to build a bike without the obvious lie.

Stucky

I'm thinking about building up a Fecalized, or Gi-Aint, or a Trik. I wish the Chinese would start offering retro steel frames though- then I could build me a Colnegro or Pewgit!

garysol1 

LoL..... Wow.... For not giving a crap you sure seem to give a crap. You may want to reread my reply before you go calling me a hater. I dont believe I said anything negative about your bike. Ride it, love it and enjoy it but i will call a spade a spade. There are hundreds of chinese open mold frames out there but you chose the one with PINARELLO boldly stickered on the downtube and there is only one reason to do that and that is to make people think that you are riding a "fancier" bike then you are. You sir do give a crap what people think.

mpath

+1. What he doesn't give a crap about is the integrity of intellectual property rights.

mpath

The irony of it is he does care that it's not a Hong-fu, Deng-fu (or a myriad of relatively good Chinese frames for the price). I mean, who wants to be seen riding that crap, right, when you can be seen on a Pinarello, fake or not.

Nachoman

Darth Steele

Sweet looking ride.. enjoy, let us know how it rides

I would have gone with the Cervelo S5 or the Specialized Venge Vias... and I just might.. I am waiting for the disc brakes option

Maelochs

Interesting thread .... eventually.

We all know what knock-offs are—I would imagine we all know about fake Rolexes,. fake Louis Vuitton luggage,. and the very broad and lucrative faux-designer handbag industry ... simply because these things are mentioned in the various media (from news to “news” to sit-coms) so frequently... and for those few who knew nothing of intellectual property rights, hopefully, now you do.

So ... bicycles.

I wouldn’t go the “fake” route for personal reasons, and while I am arrogant enough to think i am always right and everyone should see things my way ... I am generous enough to let others make their own choices (so I can scorn them later. )

I like reading reports about folks buying fake bikes, because it is Information. I can recall when people crapped all over everyone buying Workswell ... now they are accepted as a legitimate lower-cost option. I understand that the knock-offs may be more hit-or-miss in terms of quality control ... but as more people report in about their builds and their rides, we can get Real-World data about how these things perform.

Yeah, I read the article about the knock-off frame with the voids and all ... but I am cynical enough to think that that too, could have been rigged. if I wanted to do what was essentially a scare-story to advertise my brand, I would deliberately buy the cheapest, worst, least reputable frame I could find ... I would even buy six or eight and only report on the worst one. Is that what actually happened? I have no clue ... but that article was PR, advertising, not just a warning to protect riders.

What I got from this thread is that at least a couple folks bought Chinarello Dog-piles and think they are good enough bikes for their (non-racing) purposes ... and that is real data. I also learned that while QC might not be first-rate, warranty service was. That is important.

I would like to hear more about people who ride these frames, and hopefully from people with a lot of miles on them.

To me it makes sense that if these frames are still on the market, not a lot of people must have died riding them, because if they were Really dangerous, the bike community would share that news (even more widely than it shares the apparently baseless hysteria it shares now.)

I figure what we have here are sort of the bike version of fake Gucci handbags ... as long as all the owner does is carry make-up and a wallet, it works fine. Maybe these frames wouldn’t hold up through many seasons of crit racing (or maybe they would) but in any case, they are good enough for most riders.

Come on ... the mis-assembled crap sold at Wal-Mart has got to be more dangerous than most knock-offs, and nobody panics when parents by (literally) the millions buy them for their kids (I don’t like children either, so we are all good with that.)

Look, if people want to debate the morality of buying knock-offs ... there are a lot of issues there, but I am not seeing where Pinarello is about to declare bankruptcy. We don’t really need to debate that.

Equally, we don’t really need to debate the personal taste issues ... trust me, I could write pages about the self-satisfied, anal-retentive, OCD riders who seriously believe that the labels have to face a certain way on their wheels ... and everybody else’s. Some folks want to wear the high-end labels ... to me, if it is on a real product or a knock-off ... not a good reason to make the purchase, but that is just me. You can do whatever, and live your own life however. if it works for you and doesn’t hurt anyone else much .... Ride what you like and paint it how it pleases you.

Back to bikes again ... let’s listen to what these people say. Let’s get real-world data from actual experiments, and form Valid opinions. How about that for a shocking departure from the norm?

Stucky

I have to agree, Maalox. I think that threads like this are great, in that they convey real-life experience from regular people who do not have a vested interest in the mainstream product(s). Even in the age of the interwebz, so much "information" [propaganda] we are exposed to is biased marketing, and stuff designed to elicit a psychological reaction. Being able to get real feedback from the pioneers who buy and ride these alternatives is of much more value than 1000 pages of glossy ads, or some biased "test" conducted by a magazine or other group which depends on the major bike manufacturers for it's support.

I just hope that people like the OP and Rpennmanparker keep us updated over time, so that we can see how the various frames hold-up.

Seems to me that the big brands are already having trouble "proving" their superiority, and they are goi9ng to have to face the facts and lower their prices thanks to the competition of open-mold and knock-off bikes. I believe that they are starting to do this already, as I recall reading something about price reductions for the 2016 model year.

rpenmanparker 

The difference, IMO, between unbranded and knock-off frames is not just quality control. That would suggest that both makers were trying to build a top quality frame, but the unbranded frame just got more rigorous QC and QA. I think the intent of the two makers is different, not just the QC and QA. Workswell is trying to build a good frame. Chinarello is just trying to make a fake and the quality of the product is of no interest. Only the appearance matters. Once again, IMO.

kc0bbq

The plural of anecdote is not data.