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Cannondale Bikes Now Sold w/PowerMeters

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Cannondale Bikes Now Sold w/PowerMeters

Old 12-06-18, 12:58 PM
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Cannondale Bikes Now Sold w/PowerMeters

This is an intriguing marketing idea by Cannondale, but I'm not sure that it's worth anything to consumers. Some models of their road bikes now come with NG power2max Eco power meters already installed. The catch is that, to "activate" the power meter, you need to pay a $500 fee. That's about the same price as just buying it separately yourself. It's more expensive than buying a Stages and adding it to the bike. Is Cannondale counting on consumers just not noticing, or am I missing something about this deal?
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Old 12-06-18, 02:01 PM
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There probably will be a "hack" to work around it soon
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Old 12-06-18, 02:40 PM
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the raw parts cost is minimal, its all in the r&d and calibration, so it makes sense to include them. They are betting on the convenience factor. It would seem like as easy way for dealers to be able to incentivise purchases by waving the fee also
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Old 12-06-18, 02:54 PM
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Odd marketing scheme. Kind of like putting tracking/assistance available in cars, but not enabling the feature. Is that still being done?

It makes one wonder how much those power meters really cost.
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Old 12-06-18, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Odd marketing scheme. Kind of like putting tracking/assistance available in cars, but not enabling the feature. Is that still being done?

It makes one wonder how much those power meters really cost.
XM Satellite Sirius FM Comes to mind.
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Old 12-06-18, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cycledogg View Post
XM Satellite Sirius FM Comes to mind.
Onstar is what I was thinking of, I think.

But, XM & Sirius would be other similar schemes.

And, of course, all that garbage that Google loads the phones up with, then blocks uninstalling what is unwanted, but that is software which is essentially free.

These devices actually require hardware integration.

It would be interesting to see how much money it costs & makes.

Probably cheaper than having dealers pull unwanted cranksets and toss them in the drawer.
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Old 12-07-18, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by goose70 View Post
This is an intriguing marketing idea by Cannondale, but I'm not sure that it's worth anything to consumers. Some models of their road bikes now come with NG power2max Eco power meters already installed. The catch is that, to "activate" the power meter, you need to pay a $500 fee. That's about the same price as just buying it separately yourself. It's more expensive than buying a Stages and adding it to the bike. Is Cannondale counting on consumers just not noticing, or am I missing something about this deal?

Could you please post the link for this?
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Old 12-07-18, 12:01 PM
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Here's a link: https://www.power2max.com/en/software-upgrades/. Below, I've also posted a reply to my question from NG. (They replied within minutes, which is nice customer service.) The bottom line is that by purchasing the Cannondale bike with the power meter installed, you save about 30 bucks over purchasing it separately, plus the hassle of install. Whether that's a good deal depends on your level of annoyance for minor installation requirements and your level of joy for minor cost savings, I suppose. As for me, the model of EVO that I want comes with the power meter installed. My LBS thinks they can find the same model, sans power meter (and a bit lower price). They'll then install a $435 stages power meter, saving me money and getting me a power meter with a somewhat better, proven track record.

NG RESPONSE:
________________________
Thank you for your message and interest in Power2max. The activation fee is done through our European headquarters so you are actually paying 490 Euros.

The Cannondale power meter requires a little bit more machining and construction that other models (like SRAM) so if you were to purchase just the power meter from us it is $590 USD. Keep in mind that if you purchased a Cannondale bike that had their SpideRing chain ring on it, this chain ring will not work with the power meter. So you would need new chain rings as well.

All this being said, the power meter that you would receive on the bike is the exact same unit you would receive from us.
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Old 12-07-18, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by goose70 View Post
Here's a link: https://www.power2max.com/en/software-upgrades/. Below, I've also posted a reply to my question from NG. (They replied within minutes, which is nice customer service.) The bottom line is that by purchasing the Cannondale bike with the power meter installed, you save about 30 bucks over purchasing it separately, plus the hassle of install. Whether that's a good deal depends on your level of annoyance for minor installation requirements and your level of joy for minor cost savings, I suppose. As for me, the model of EVO that I want comes with the power meter installed. My LBS thinks they can find the same model, sans power meter (and a bit lower price). They'll then install a $435 stages power meter, saving me money and getting me a power meter with a somewhat better, proven track record.

NG RESPONSE:
________________________
Thank you for your message and interest in Power2max. The activation fee is done through our European headquarters so you are actually paying 490 Euros.

The Cannondale power meter requires a little bit more machining and construction that other models (like SRAM) so if you were to purchase just the power meter from us it is $590 USD. Keep in mind that if you purchased a Cannondale bike that had their SpideRing chain ring on it, this chain ring will not work with the power meter. So you would need new chain rings as well.

All this being said, the power meter that you would receive on the bike is the exact same unit you would receive from us.
Is missing from the cost savings/additional calculations, the fact that if you get a bike without the pre-installed meter, your bike price effectively included a crank you'll take off and stick in a closet.. or sell on ebay at some sorta loss?
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Old 12-07-18, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Is missing from the cost savings/additional calculations, the fact that if you get a bike without the pre-installed meter, your bike price effectively included a crank you'll take off and stick in a closet.. or sell on ebay at some sorta loss?
I look at it this way: The same bike without the power meter looks like it will be about $250 less. The stages power meter is $435, or about $125 less than the activation fee for the pre-installed NG ECO power meter. So, I'll save about $375 over the pre-installed power meter and activation fee -- not a huge amount, but enough to cover a bike computer or new high-end cycling shoes, for example. Plus, given the choice, I'd prefer Stages.

I just put this out there so that folks have some transparency into the attendant costs of purchasing the power meter option with Cannondales. I think that Specialized also sells bikes with power meters included and I'm sure other brands will follow suit.
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Old 12-07-18, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by goose70 View Post
Here's a link: https://www.power2max.com/en/software-upgrades/. Below, I've also posted a reply to my question from NG. (They replied within minutes, which is nice customer service.) The bottom line is that by purchasing the Cannondale bike with the power meter installed, you save about 30 bucks over purchasing it separately, plus the hassle of install. Whether that's a good deal depends on your level of annoyance for minor installation requirements and your level of joy for minor cost savings, I suppose. As for me, the model of EVO that I want comes with the power meter installed. My LBS thinks they can find the same model, sans power meter (and a bit lower price). They'll then install a $435 stages power meter, saving me money and getting me a power meter with a somewhat better, proven track record.

NG RESPONSE:
________________________
Thank you for your message and interest in Power2max. The activation fee is done through our European headquarters so you are actually paying 490 Euros.

The Cannondale power meter requires a little bit more machining and construction that other models (like SRAM) so if you were to purchase just the power meter from us it is $590 USD. Keep in mind that if you purchased a Cannondale bike that had their SpideRing chain ring on it, this chain ring will not work with the power meter. So you would need new chain rings as well.

All this being said, the power meter that you would receive on the bike is the exact same unit you would receive from us.
Going from a crank based PM to a single arm Stages is a step backwards in terms of data generation, and stages aren't known for being the most reliable either.
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Old 12-07-18, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cycledogg View Post
Could you please post the link for this?
Looks like the preinstalled PM is only currently found on the highest end Hi-Mod models of the Supersix's, eg.
https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Bi...ntid=undefined
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Old 12-07-18, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by goose70 View Post
I look at it this way: The same bike without the power meter looks like it will be about $250 less. The stages power meter is $435, or about $125 less than the activation fee for the pre-installed NG ECO power meter. So, I'll save about $375 over the pre-installed power meter and activation fee -- not a huge amount, but enough to cover a bike computer or new high-end cycling shoes, for example. Plus, given the choice, I'd prefer Stages.

I just put this out there so that folks have some transparency into the attendant costs of purchasing the power meter option with Cannondales. I think that Specialized also sells bikes with power meters included and I'm sure other brands will follow suit.
Difficult to see this calculation of the $250 since as is typical with bike companies, there's never only one difference between one model and another. Take this page of bikes, for instance, with sporadic models here and there with the NG installed, and others without, but different groupsets and wheels etc..
https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Pr...8-febc1ef56986
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Old 12-07-18, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Difficult to see this calculation of the $250 since as is typical with bike companies, there's never only one difference between one model and another. Take this page of bikes, for instance, with sporadic models here and there with the NG installed, and others without, but different groupsets and wheels etc..

https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Pr...8-febc1ef56986

To be clear, I'm looking at the Ultegra "race" version in the link you provided. My LBS believes that they can get that exact set-up without the power meter, at a slight discount as I mentioned. They think that Cannondale, at least for the time being, can ship it with the same crank and all other components, but without the power meter (even though that config is not an advertised option). If that turns out to not be the case, however, then you're right, you can't normally choose components a la cart, so you'd downgrade other key components (wheels, etc.) by going with a non-power meter stock selection. Even buying the stock, power meter version, it's still a over a hundred bucks cheaper to just add a Stages and not activate the NG (or maybe remove the NG and sell on eBay), but I'd be inclined to just activate it. Or potentially move up to the Dura Ace version and get a Stages.


Regarding Stages v NG, again taking my LBS's advice, I learned that they had to send back two malfunctioning NGs that one of their sponsored triathletes used. Maybe their latest models have worked out the bugs. I've read mixed reviews. Stages definitely had mixed reviews, too, but their latest generation is getting very high marks. I've also heard good things from teammates who are using the latest gen Stages. But, I don't claim to be a power meter expert and there seem to be many good choices today.

Last edited by goose70; 12-07-18 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 12-07-18, 04:00 PM
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Isn't the stages left side cannondale sisl2 arm $580
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Old 12-07-18, 04:33 PM
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Agree about Stages one sided measurement bring a step down. Doesn't seem to matter very much overall for most people, but it always bothered me to pay for a precise measurement if it comes with the assumption that both legs are equal. The L/R balance isn't useful to know (outside of a fitting) but mine is different on every ride. A one leg meter doubles that difference.
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Old 12-07-18, 04:56 PM
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Giant is coming out with dual sided PM on their higher end road bikes this year as a standard feature. Specialized is starting to put them on as well; IIRC theirs were developed in conjunction with 4iiii (whereas Giant were developed in house). The Cannondale model of supplying bikes with the PM installed and then wanting to upcharge to activate it seems like a loosing play.... I'd give the LBS a stinkeyed look if they wanted to add $500+ on the tab of a nice bike to "activate" something that was already installed.
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Old 12-07-18, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Beach Bob View Post
Giant is coming out with dual sided PM on their higher end road bikes this year as a standard feature. Specialized is starting to put them on as well; IIRC theirs were developed in conjunction with 4iiii (whereas Giant were developed in house). The Cannondale model of supplying bikes with the PM installed and then wanting to upcharge to activate it seems like a loosing play.... I'd give the LBS a stinkeyed look if they wanted to add $500+ on the tab of a nice bike to "activate" something that was already installed.
But rather bring your bike in after-sale to the LBS for a Crank uninstall/reinstall and pay the same?
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Old 12-07-18, 05:27 PM
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That kind of activation price will only result in hacks.

A better model would be a low priced monthly subscription.
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Old 12-07-18, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
But rather bring your bike in after-sale to the LBS for a Crank uninstall/reinstall and pay the same?
People will drive across town to save $100 on an air conditioner, but don't bat an eye spending that much extra on a car. But when you spend it, it doesn't matter where it came from.

People aren't 100% rational. Activation fees for things you already have bother people. Even if it came out less this way, it will still be a harder sell.
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Old 12-07-18, 09:54 PM
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No idea what the uptake on the activation offer would be, but if say it was 50% they could alternatively load $250 on to the price of all the bikes.
They get the same return, everybody gets a power meter and they wouldn't have to deal with any backlash from trying to sell something that many perceive they already have.
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Old 12-07-18, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
No idea what the uptake on the activation offer would be, but if say it was 50% they could alternatively load $250 on to the price of all the bikes.
They get the same return, everybody gets a power meter and they wouldn't have to deal with any backlash from trying to sell something that many perceive they already have.
Brilliant idea! Much better than hitting me up at the end of the sale for that.

Also, in fairness... some people don't like/want/believe in power meters. That's OK! Find a manufacturer/model that works for you. No one should be forced into overpaying for what they want/don't want.
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Old 12-07-18, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by goose70 View Post
I look at it this way: The same bike without the power meter looks like it will be about $250 less.
Where is the $250 savings to Cannondale coming from? The difference is replacing the Power2Max power meter spider


with Cannondale's SI spider.



I seriously doubt that Cannondale is buying the power meter spiders from Power2Max. Why would they unless there is a revenue sharing deal on the activation fees? The customer is not paying their dealer or Cannondale for activation, but they are paying Power2Max. Would be curious to see the agreement on this.
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Old 12-07-18, 10:44 PM
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My guess is that it works something like this.

Shimano sells the Ultegra crankset to Cannondale for $100.
Power2Max probably also came to Cannondale (or Cannondale owns them), and told them that they could sell a crankset for the same $100.

Likely that $100 comes in pretty close to "at cost". No loss. No profit. But, it does keep the employees busy, and the lights on.

And, bulk orders make it easy.

Any sales of the software package then becomes 100% profit.

Plus, more than anything, they're getting their product out there on a bunch of bicycles, even if nobody can actually use it, people are seeing it.

To Cannondale executives, it probably looks like a win all around.

But, is it really? If I was buying a 100% mechanical Ultegra bicycle, and chose not to pay the extra $500 to activate the power system.... then I really really would not want that boat anchor on my bicycle.

Ahh, I see from @gl98115's post, it is mainly a spider they're changing. Still, if I didn't activate it, I wouldn't want it, and would likely shun any bike that came with it.
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Old 12-07-18, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
No idea what the uptake on the activation offer would be, but if say it was 50% they could alternatively load $250 on to the price of all the bikes.
They get the same return, everybody gets a power meter and they wouldn't have to deal with any backlash from trying to sell something that many perceive they already have.
And yet the power meter is useless unless you buy a compatible cycle computer - another $250!!!
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