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Visser Vainqueur potential project or scrap?

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Visser Vainqueur potential project or scrap?

Old 02-01-20, 05:13 PM
  #26  
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The fork crown and headtube tell you this is a nice bike. Are those zeus pedals? I'd sink as little money into this project as possible but it would make a real fun townie. This is a bike that deserves to be repurposed.
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Old 02-01-20, 05:22 PM
  #27  
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If you're not going to keep it to restore it, I suspect someone on here would love to.

Those hollow Stronglight axles are hard to come by, as is the chain guard, there are a number of parts worth saving as mentioned above.

The construction on this is really nice. I think you'd be surprised what it would look like after properly cleaning it up.
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Old 02-02-20, 12:30 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by francophile View Post
If you're not going to keep it to restore it, I suspect someone on here would love to.

Those hollow Stronglight axles are hard to come by, as is the chain guard, there are a number of parts worth saving as mentioned above.

The construction on this is really nice. I think you'd be surprised what it would look like after properly cleaning it up.
Hi #francophile ,

How would someone go about restoring a bike like this? there are some original parts left on the bike, but there is a lot missing to. And I don't think the wheels are the originals.
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Old 02-02-20, 11:53 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Locomotief View Post
How would someone go about restoring a bike like this? there are some original parts left on the bike, but there is a lot missing to. And I don't think the wheels are the originals.
First thing is not getting hung up on what's missing, and have a rough vision on one or two possible outcomes you'd like to see. What are you aiming for?

With something like this, I'd start exactly where you have: Taking good pictures. Then I'd look for a couple of comparison bikes of roughly the same year/model, normally I hit ClassicRendezvous first, then a few other places to try to find pictures I can reference for the little details. You may also hit CABE and setup an account if you're not already there, too. There's a braintrust over there, same as here.

Then I'd proceed as you have: Disassembly, down to the bottom bracket (leave headset and bottom bracket assembled, properly pop out the cotters) . I'd bag all the parts to keep them together, even the stuff that seems too rusty to do anything with, with exception of consumables you need to replace anyway (spokes, tubes, tires, bar tape etc).

A lot of the rust I'm seeing there is negligible, especially in the white painted areas. That will cut out with a good compound and/or ultra-fine brass wool gently brushed across the tubes with a diluted dish liquid as lubricant, which will also clean up the chrome nicely.

Before starting any of that work on the tubes, I'd take some construction paper and painters tape to tape the paper over any surface-mount decals with a tiny 1mm margin above/below them. This way you can pass across the tubes without any issues.

You may consider an Oxalic Acid bath as others suggest, but that may trash or fade any surface-mounted decals. I'd probably do that for the rear dropouts, but I have a little bit of beef with water-in-tubes myself, so I prefer only to do non-perforated tubes with exception of the bottom half of the BB shell.

For smaller parts, like the clamps holding the chain guard on, which are heavily rusted ... I'd scrub off any surface rust and soak those in Evap-o-Rust. It's a killer product, nobody ever believes me when I tell them what it's capable of, and it's all-natural, so no neutralizing or special handling for disposal. Best part, though, you can re-use it several times. I keep a few pickle jars around full of it and will re-use it a dozen or more times before it gets kinda funky. You may be able to salvage the bottom cup on that headset, you'd be surprised, if not, you may be able to find a replacement here or on CABE.

Once I got the frame cleaned up, I'd assess: Where are we? Does it look OK? Am I confident it's structurally sound, lug joints OK, no hardcore internal rust ? If yes, I'd proceed. If I wanted to keep the patina intact, I'd consider a going over it with semi-gloss or maybe even matte 2K clear. If the frame is in exceptionally good case, and you wanted to have a real showpiece, maybe drop the money on having it professionally repainted.

If you're not planning to restore it, I'd consider posting the frame/fork/headset/assembled BB/crank for sale here or elswhere, or give it up for the cost of shipping (I'd take it and compensate you for pack and ship). This bike is one of those things I love to get my hands on and set aside as a long-term projects slowly plug at over the course of a couple of years.
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Old 02-02-20, 11:15 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Oscar Egg lugs.
I noticed those, too! Not very often seen, would make me want to get this back on the road!
Good luck with 'er!
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Old 02-04-20, 08:50 AM
  #31  
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Thanks for all the advice #francophile !
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Old 02-04-20, 08:51 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
I noticed those, too! Not very often seen, would make me want to get this back on the road!
Good luck with 'er!
Thanks! it will see the roads off Rotterdam again for sure.
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Old 03-19-20, 03:08 AM
  #33  
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Picked up the Visser Vainqueur from my workshop last night. Because off the demise of this Visser bicycle:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...d-crack-s.html

The Vainqueur might end up with all the components from that bike. But let's see if this frame is any better than the other Visser.


Let me know what you guys think.
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Old 03-19-20, 03:14 AM
  #34  
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Seat stay on this one is questionable as well.




like #verktyg showed in the other Visser thread the top of this seat stay is not solid to. And are those cracks?
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Old 03-19-20, 03:23 AM
  #35  
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There's no lack off patina on this frame how would you guys go about cleaning and preserving this frame? Or would you go for a new paint job?
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Old 03-19-20, 04:50 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Locomotief View Post
Ah! More proof of it being a Belgian product. That braze-on is for a Belgian tax plate:

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Old 03-19-20, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
Ah! More proof of it being a Belgian product. That braze-on is for a Belgian tax plate:

I thought it was a light bracket.
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Old 03-19-20, 05:58 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Locomotief View Post
Thanks for all the replies guys!

The Visser Vainqueur is a keeper. You guys convinced me. It will take a while before I can start this project. I first want to finish my french folding bike. But I'll slowly start collecting parts.

A while back I took my cargo bike to the dump and found these wheels in the dumpster. They might end up on the visser.

Really nice potential here, a lot of great details!

I would be careful with modern rear wheels. The spacing between the rear dropouts can be very different from 1950’s bikes to 2020’s. The spacing for the early stuff can be below 120mm, where 130mm is common since 1985 or so, and wider is becoming more common now in the ‘20s.

To fit a wider one the rear triangles need to be flexed outward. This is always stressful, but for new not-rusted steel it’s kind of a well known thing. A big bendup, like 120 to 130, is questionable even for new, and I would worry about creating cracks in this old beauty. I would just overhaul the old wheel (and other) bearings to get them as smooth as possible and do a few ides to assess things.
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Old 03-19-20, 06:10 AM
  #39  
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Hi #road fan

I'm using the wheels off this bike.


There vintage campagnolo nuovo tipo hubs. They fit perfectly. But thanks for the warning.
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Old 03-19-20, 09:35 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Locomotief View Post
I thought it was a light bracket.
Nope. Wrong side.

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Old 03-19-20, 11:09 AM
  #41  
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Hi #non-fixie,

where did you find this picture? Its look very similar to the front fork on my visser.

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Old 03-19-20, 11:25 AM
  #42  
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Those rims in your first picture are aluminum, no? Do they have a brand on them?

They look like they might be 650b. Are they straight? Do the brake tracks seem worn out? Many collectors of old French stuff need replacement rims, and from here they look like good quality.

They are different from the rims you have on the bike in another picture, which appear to be steel and lower quality.
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Old 03-19-20, 12:25 PM
  #43  
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I'd strip it down, give it an Oxalic Acid bath, polish it up and touch up the scrapes. OA is sold as wood bleach (for fences & decks) here in the US. Then build it up with whatever trips your trolley.
Interesting bike!
Edit: I'd have a frame builder look at those stay caps. They appear to be cosmetic/non-structural cracks, but an expert can nail it down for you.
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Old 03-19-20, 02:38 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Locomotief View Post
Hi #non-fixie,

where did you find this picture? Its look very similar to the front fork on my visser.

I have no additional information on this particular bike (I think I got it from some tourism promotion website), but details like these are found on many Belgian bikes from that era.

As you may have noticed, I like Belgian bikes, especially these "sports" machines. My problem is that they are always way too small for me.

This is one of them, and it has been sitting next to me, here in my study, for the past five years or so. I have no use for it, but I can't bear to part with it either. And yes, it has that same NDS braze-on for a tax plate.



It has been repainted and otherwise mistreated, but I can still see its former beauty ...





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Old 03-19-20, 11:10 PM
  #45  
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-----

frame -

fork crown is Vagner model Nr. 11+






dropouts are Simplex (Juy) Nr. 881 & 881B



fork ends not well shown, would expect them to be Simplex Nr. 932 & 933

shell is a BOCAMA pattern. here it is on a Flandria Champion Mondial of 1979 -



eyelets on taper tubes resemble NERVEX Nr. 887

seat stay top - as stated earlier by Hudson308 not a structural problem. if you envision a respray then you can have it repaired. if you wish to retain present finish then spray some anti-rust product and leave as t'is.

---

pedals look to be 1950's era Atom 700, or whatever was its predecessor of that epoch.

---

wonder if headset may be a TWF pattern

-----
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Old 03-20-20, 12:48 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by scarlson View Post
Those rims in your first picture are aluminum, no? Do they have a brand on them?

They look like they might be 650b. Are they straight? Do the brake tracks seem worn out? Many collectors of old French stuff need replacement rims, and from here they look like good quality.

They are different from the rims you have on the bike in another picture, which appear to be steel and lower quality.
I don't think the original rims are 650b. They did have the weinmann logo around the valve. They are aluminum and they look very similar to a set a super champion rims I have from my Peugeot ph10. Same shape. There a little ruff but probably still useable.

The ones that are on the bike now are most likely Nisi Toro rims. I don't want to spend to much money on this bike right now. So I'm using stuff i Already have. They do look a little small for the frame. So I might change the rims later.
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Old 03-20-20, 01:05 AM
  #47  
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Hi #non-fixie


It is a sweet little bike. Shame it's not your size. I Can understand why you keep it around.
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Old 03-20-20, 01:08 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

frame -

fork crown is Vagner model Nr. 11+






dropouts are Simplex (Juy) Nr. 881 & 881B



fork ends not well shown, would expect them to be Simplex Nr. 932 & 933

shell is a BOCAMA pattern. here it is on a Flandria Champion Mondial of 1979 -



eyelets on taper tubes resemble NERVEX Nr. 887

seat stay top - as stated earlier by Hudson308 not a structural problem. if you envision a respray then you can have it repaired. if you wish to retain present finish then spray some anti-rust product and leave as t'is.

---

pedals look to be 1950's era Atom 700, or whatever was its predecessor of that epoch.

---

wonder if headset may be a TWF pattern

-----
Amazed again about your knowledge #juvela

and I'll keep an eye on the cracks in the paint. If they get worse I'll have the checked.

And how can I check if its TWF pattern?
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Old 03-20-20, 09:07 AM
  #49  
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-----

The TWF marque was created by two brothers, name of Woit, in Flanderland, 1946. The T and the F are their respective initials.

Firm produced headsets, bottom bracket assemblies and chainsets.

In Britain, Ron Kitching was a stockist in the 1950's and 1960's. Headsets shown in 1963 & 1970 editions of the Everything Cycling handbook.

Historique : WOIT Fonderie des Métaux non Ferreux - Herstal - Liège - Wallonie

Member Munny discusses the bottom bracket spindles here -

https://veloretrocourse.proboards.com...0688/quote/624

As a native Dutch speaker expect you will have no difficulty in searching for additional information in Flemish.

These three images courtesy of Munny illustrate one pattern of headset, different from yours -






Munny gives additional information on the company and their products in this BF posting -

https://www.bikeforums.net/20158383-post536.html


-----
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Old 03-20-20, 03:23 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Locomotief View Post
Is it common that the brake bridge is drilled horizontally and vertically? Or is it some kind of a modification?
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