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Germi Super Sport '65

Old 04-03-20, 12:24 PM
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alexnagui
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Germi Super Sport '65

Here is a bike I picked up last summer. It a Germi Super Sport and I think it might be from 1965 but I am not sure. The Titan bars are marked with '65' so it is not just a guess. The bike needs some work and unfortunately is not 100% original, I believe. The fork is obviously a replacement, which is a bummer, the cranks, pedals and the rear derailleur don't look original to the bike either. I don't have a clear plan yet what I am gonna do with it, but I'll start stripping the frame from the parts soon. It is my size so I am planning on keeping it in any case.

Here is some information about this marque form Klassiekeracefiets:
"Germi was a private brand of Gerrit de Weerd from Hilversum. The name Germi is a contraction of the first names of Gerrit and his wife, called Mien. De Weerd started his business in 1952 and stopped in 1981. At the time, you could order custom frames from De Weerd, which were made in Amsterdam by Jasper Bouma (Jabo) and painted at a different address. The final assembly then took place at De Weerd's shop at 119 Kometenstraat in Hilversum."



















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Old 04-03-20, 12:25 PM
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Old 04-03-20, 12:58 PM
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I like the bike a lot but you might want to lose that kickstand.
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Old 04-03-20, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
I like the bike a lot but you might want to lose that kickstand.
I know where you're getting at but having a kickstand is quite convenient, to be honest. I'll see
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Old 04-03-20, 02:15 PM
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That's one cool bike !!!!

Agree.....maybe get a better fitting kickstand, or adjust the one on there.**********

Just doesn't seem to look " correct"

Looks in GREAT shape as well !!!!

AWESOME score !!!!
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Old 04-03-20, 02:29 PM
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-----

lug pattern NERVEX 48/161

shell NERVEX with nozzle cut 158

front Maillard QR skewer a pattern which did not launch until 1973

cycle's Normandy Sport hubs with small round holes were last produced 1966

chainset puzzling, inner face of arms appears to be marked uK 170, is that correct?,blk plastic dustcovers appear to be popout type rather than threaded, chainwheel pattern matches OFMEGA Forgiato, wonder if set could be a brand such as Suarini...

as you say, pedals and rear mech clearly too late for cycle

shall look forward to following along as the experts weigh in

-----
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Old 04-03-20, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

chainset puzzling, inner face of arms appears to be marked uK 170, is that correct?,blk plastic dustcovers appear to be popout type rather than threaded, chainwheel pattern matches OFMEGA Forgiato, wonder if set could be a brand such as Suarini...

-----
Juvela, the marking is DK 170. There is also an extra mark next to that, see the picture. I think they are just some cheap replacement cranks.

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Old 04-03-20, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by alexnagui View Post

I was wondering about the front mech. There is clearly a down-tube cable stop for a front derailleur. The braze-on on the seat tube also has a cable stop but the cable routing with these two cable stops doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 04-03-20, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by alexnagui View Post
I was wondering about the front mech. There is clearly a down-tube cable stop for a front derailleur. The braze-on on the seat tube also has a cable stop but the cable routing with these two cable stops doesn't make sense to me.
-----

note the scuff near the letter S of Tourisme

a front mech may have been mounted at some point

cable routing hole in chainguard bracket appears it may be threaded for an adjusting barrel

since rust can be seen in hole it may have been employed at some juncture in the past...

-----
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Old 04-03-20, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by alexnagui View Post
I was wondering about the front mech. There is clearly a down-tube cable stop for a front derailleur. The braze-on on the seat tube also has a cable stop but the cable routing with these two cable stops doesn't make sense to me.
Doesn’t it run to the stop on the NDS and then there is housing from there under the BB and up to the seat tube housing stop? The DR is a bit above that housing stop.
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Old 04-03-20, 06:22 PM
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-----

arrangement of chainguard mounting brackets also serving as housing stops reminds me of the pump pegs on this Favorit model F12 of 1979 -






---

arrestors -

is it fairly common for NL producers to combine Alti and Weinmann bits on one cycle?


------
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Old 04-03-20, 07:09 PM
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that's a real find!
BUT...so "germ-y", kind of bad timing.
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Old 04-04-20, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

arrestors -

is it fairly common for NL producers to combine Alti and Weinmann bits on one cycle?

------
Good question. I don't know, maybe one of them is not original to the cycle.
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Old 04-04-20, 11:37 AM
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What a nice find! Beautiful frame. It's a pity pretty much everything else seems to have been replaced over time, except maybe the saddle, seat post, bars and stem.

The "Super Sport" moniker puts in the sixties. It was the popular name at the time for bikes that were in a market segment between "Sport" and "Race". Light, expensive and the best you could have for your Sunday afternoon out. They typically came from established frame builders or well-reputed factories. There are some examples of these bikes to be found online, if you're interested in getting it back to period-correct spec. I'll see if I can find some examples.

These are a couple of my own examples from that period.

A RIH Sport "Super". Built by Willem Bustraan jr. in early 1965. As it came to me, and clearly suffering from the same "upgrade-itis". Only the Campagnolo Record transmission, and maybe the rear rack, are original:



And a Joco "Ronde van Europa" from a couple of years earlier:

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Old 04-04-20, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
What a nice find! Beautiful frame. It's a pity pretty much everything else seems to have been replaced over time, except maybe the saddle, seat post, bars and stem.

The "Super Sport" moniker puts in the sixties. It was the popular name at the time for bikes that were in a market segment between "Sport" and "Race". Light, expensive and the best you could have for your Sunday afternoon out. They typically came from established frame builders or well-reputed factories. There are some examples of these bikes to be found online, if you're interested in getting it back to period-correct spec. I'll see if I can find some examples.

These are a couple of my own examples from that period.

A RIH Sport "Super". Built by Willem Bustraan jr. in early 1965. As it came to me, and clearly suffering from the same "upgrade-itis". Only the Campagnolo Record transmission, and maybe the rear rack, are original:



And a Joco "Ronde van Europa" from a couple of years earlier:

Thanks, non-fixie! Nice examples you've got. Basically, those Super Sport fietsen were lightweight bikes with upright bars, right?

Here are some examples from oudefiets.nl:


Joco Ronde van Europa

Jan de Reus
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Old 04-04-20, 02:55 PM
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Yes, those are the examples I meant to find. Locomotief made some nice ones as well. Search for "Locomotief Tour de France".

I think this was originally one. Bontekoe was a Locomotief dealer, and my guess is that he also got 'blank frames' from them to brand as his own.

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Old 04-04-20, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by alexnagui View Post
(...) Basically, those Super Sport fietsen were lightweight bikes with upright bars, right?
Yes, and without the chain guards but with drop bars they were usually called "semi-race", I believe. But there were no fixed rules, as "marketing" was already a thing back then.

Here is an article from the "Kampioen", which shows a whole range of models from various companies: Moet er een nieuwe fiets komen?
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Old 04-13-20, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
Yes, and without the chain guards but with drop bars they were usually called "semi-race", I believe. But there were no fixed rules, as "marketing" was already a thing back then.

Here is an article from the "Kampioen", which shows a whole range of models from various companies: Moet er een nieuwe fiets komen?
Thanks for the link, very educative!

Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
Yes, those are the examples I meant to find. Locomotief made some nice ones as well. Search for "Locomotief Tour de France".

I think this was originally one. Bontekoe was a Locomotief dealer, and my guess is that he also got 'blank frames' from them to brand as his own.

That's a nice Bontekoe! Too small for you, unfortunately, isn't is?
Have you seen this one here?
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Old 04-13-20, 10:14 AM
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I finally got around to stripping the frame from all the parts and cleaning and polishing the frame set. I am thinking whether I should touch up the frame with transparant nail polish or somehting like that and then I'll wax it.


The top tube has some small dents which I had not mentioned previously. Let's consider this patina


One of the seatstays is kinda flattened a bit at the joint with the dropout. I believe it was made this way, but it is a bit weird...


The brake bridge is vertically drilled, I actually had a hard time removing the the vertical bolt because it just kept rotating in its aluminimum "body", the nut wouldn't loosen at all. I don't think the bolt is reusable anymore, but I belive I have a set of Mafac Dural forge with a vertical bolt


The braze-on bracket is a little bit broken


I think that I will have to modify the chainguard if I am gonna use a double in front. Like make a slot for the front derailleur, I don't see how it's gonna work without such a modification


I found a serial number: 6716. I might be from 1967, not 65 as I thougth before
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Old 04-13-20, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by alexnagui View Post
That's a nice Bontekoe! Too small for you, unfortunately, isn't is?
Have you seen this one here?
Thanks. Yes, it is too small, and yes, that is unfortunate.

And I did see the thread on the Oude Fiets forum. I like that the owner got it back on the road the way he did.

This is another Bontekoe I spotted in the wild in The Hague a few years back. Didn't get to speak to the owner, alas.

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Old 04-13-20, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
Thanks. Yes, it is too small, and yes, that is unfortunate.

And I did see the thread on the Oude Fiets forum. I like that the owner got it back on the road the way he did.

This is another Bontekoe I spotted in the wild in The Hague a few years back. Didn't get to speak to the owner, alas.

That's truly a Super Sport!
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Old 04-13-20, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by alexnagui View Post
Here are some examples from oudefiets.nl:


Joco Ronde van Europa
Originally Posted by alexnagui View Post


I think that I will have to modify the chainguard if I am gonna use a double in front. Like make a slot for the front derailleur, I don't see how it's gonna work without such a modification
Such a modification is to see on that Joco above.
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Old 04-13-20, 11:01 AM
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I will most likely just leave it as a 5-speed for now. I have a spare Stronglight 49D crankset but I feel like this bike deserves a nice cottered crankset. I will see if I can find one from Stronglight, those are quite rare AFAIK
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Old 05-24-20, 09:08 AM
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I've given up the idea of finding a nice cottered crankset and instead gotten a chainring from SunXCD which I thought would look nice with Stronglight 49D crank arms.

Ran into a problem with the bottom bracket. I tried installing a cheap sealed 111mm JIS Sunrace unit which looked to be proper length for a Stronglight single. The crank however seems to sit "too close" to the bottom bracket shell, so that some of the little chain ring bolts on the inside hit the bottom bracket shell. Those are original Stronglight bolts, maybe I could use some other ones which won't protrude as much. The chain line with this bottom bracket is around 42mm though, which is correct for 120mm spacing on the rear.
However, there is (almost) no space between the crank arm and the chain guard So I definitely need a longer bottom bracket if I want to use the Stronglight cranks with the chain guard. But how long? A sealed JIS 115mm is already meant for a double. I am afraid that the chain line will be off by too much.
I should have measured the chain line with the original crank, the bottom bracket it came with is a mix of Tange and Shimano with a Shimano D-3NL spindle (122.5mm). That seems like way too long to me!
Aslo, the original crankset seems to have wider "tread" in comparison with the Stronglight, which means more distance between the crank arm and the chain ring.





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Old 05-24-20, 11:04 AM
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Yep. Fitting a new crank/chainset to a bike is always a can o' worms - with or without a chain guard involved. Looks like you need a longer spindle.
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