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It's not a hoax

Old 04-17-20, 03:37 PM
  #276  
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Originally Posted by Rajflyboy View Post
What does the government use in places like China, North Korea, Venezuela and Cuba? Where population have no guns? How do they keep people inline?
The first thing they do is to disarm their citizens. The second thing they do, is they create an atmosphere of FEAR, INTIMIDATION and PANIC and pass all kinds of draconian laws and measures to keep their citizens under control. The third thing they do is they create shortages of food, essential products and services...The most effective way for governments to control their citizens if through FEAR...If you can get somebody to be afraid of you, then you got them and they will do anything that they're told to do.
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Old 04-17-20, 03:51 PM
  #277  
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I guess this kind of stuff is appropriate in a thread about paranoid crackpots.
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Old 04-17-20, 04:15 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I don't think people will start rioting over meat. But the natives are getting restless.
Hard to say what a given society will deem is its "line" beyond which folks will snap. Other than localized examples of fairly short-term duration, I think the only situation in living memory in the USA has been: WWII rationing, which largely sought to control such ugly outages and turn them into something manageable and tolerable.

One thing's clear, though, if history's any guide: widespread threat of incapability of feeding one's family tends to do predictable things to people. Globally, we see instance after instance of people fleeing to elsewhere and, if they can't, attacking what supplies and inventories they can. Along with "thumbing" the people thought responsible for such problems: ie, the "authorities." Hard to say if that would occur in the U.S., over this thing. But if it comes to that, where deep disruptions in the food supply result in tens of millions of people with food insecurity, most of them incapable of growing or raising their own, it's a fair bet many will go looking for alternatives. Your home ... mine ... nearby companies' warehouses, etc.

We live in interesting times.

Let's hope it doesn't get even more "interesting" for people.
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Old 04-17-20, 04:21 PM
  #279  
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There's a huge difference between not being able to buy meat at the local supermarket and not being able to feed your family. Americans will decide the only source of protein left is peanut butter and eat a jarful with every meal.
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Old 04-17-20, 04:47 PM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
There's a huge difference between not being able to buy meat at the local supermarket and not being able to feed your family. Americans will decide the only source of protein left is peanut butter and eat a jarful with every meal.
Living in the midwest, I wish I could share your optimism. For my part, I'm happy to eat offal, and I choose to pay a premium for meat raised nearby on pasture, rather than on a feedlot, chicken dungeon, pig...sewer??
I don't know my butcher's stock, but I'll bet we can go 2 more months before feeling a pinch.
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Old 04-17-20, 05:10 PM
  #281  
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Ive got over 30lbs of meat in the freezer and another 20lbs being delivered by 'my' farmer next Friday.
I also am happy not to eat any meat and have done that for several months at a time before.
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Old 04-17-20, 06:27 PM
  #282  
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I've reassessed my metaphor for the USA.
It's no longer a slow motion car crash.
I'd say it's more like a large family home that's on fire. Grandpa is drunk and up on the roof yelling incoherently, mostly things like "Burn" "Burn", but occasionally saying something coherent like maybe we should put some water on this, when his feet get hot. Mom and the daughters are on one side of the house, with a bucket line trying to put the fire out. The father and the sons and all the crazy cousins are on the other side with a truck load of beer and few cans of gas going what a great fire and isn't grandpa awesome... When the fire brigade turn up the arsonists start throwing rocks at them... The neighbours are over the road hoping the fire doesn't spread.
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Old 04-17-20, 07:13 PM
  #283  
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie View Post
I've reassessed my metaphor for the USA.
It's no longer a slow motion car crash.
I'd say it's more like a large family home that's on fire. Grandpa is drunk and up on the roof yelling incoherently, mostly things like "Burn" "Burn", but occasionally saying something coherent like maybe we should put some water on this, when his feet get hot. Mom and the daughters are on one side of the house, with a bucket line trying to put the fire out. The father and the sons and all the crazy cousins are on the other side with a truck load of beer and few cans of gas going what a great fire and isn't grandpa awesome... When the fire brigade turn up the arsonists start throwing rocks at them... The neighbours are over the road hoping the fire doesn't spread.
...I will share with you one of the pearls of wisdom I learned in the fire service: "The Fire Always Goes Out."
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Old 04-17-20, 07:27 PM
  #284  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...I will share with you one of the pearls of wisdom I learned in the fire service: "The Fire Always Goes Out."
And pandemics end. The question is, who is going to be left to put the pieces back together again?
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Old 04-17-20, 07:28 PM
  #285  
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Originally Posted by skookum View Post
And pandemics end. The question is, who is going to be left to put the pieces back together again?
The lucky, and the clean.
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Old 04-17-20, 08:02 PM
  #286  
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Originally Posted by skookum View Post
And pandemics end. The question is, who is going to be left to put the pieces back together again?
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Old 04-17-20, 08:09 PM
  #287  
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Old 04-17-20, 08:22 PM
  #288  
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Old 04-17-20, 09:18 PM
  #289  
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^ Regarding 'letting it burn', in the last ten days, factories in China are being torched. Quite a few in the Hubei, Wuhan district.
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Old 04-17-20, 09:27 PM
  #290  
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
^ Regarding 'letting it burn', in the last ten days, factories in China are being torched. Quite a few in the Hubei, Wuhan district.
Link?
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Old 04-17-20, 09:52 PM
  #291  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Link?
Reputable news stream vid 'China In Focus'. (English). Other good source is SCMP China. (English). Google will lead you. Select video and news.

I would gladly link but in the last few days I'm getting multiple flagged blah, blah by mods here and calling me a troll, and political. Pansies will probably yank me just for replying here. As if I really give a hoot, I'm certainly exercising 'my body by cycling as well as my freedom of speech'. Notice mods how I tied cycling to appease you?


I'm often at a VA hospital and I think along with most everyone there, share some deep resentments what's going on. I only hope those younger ones here can figure out how to salvage what liberties are being greatly reduced or soon to vanish. Regardless the outcome, this is a monumental change to the world.

Cheers
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Old 04-17-20, 10:24 PM
  #292  
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
Reputable news stream vid 'China In Focus'. (English). Other good source is SCMP China. (English). Google will lead you. Select video and news.
I've spent half an hour looking for any stories of Wuhan area factories burning, or any attribution to arson or suspicious fires. The only reports coming up are several weeks old reporting China burning corpses in an attempt to reduce the spread of infection.

I'm often at a VA hospital and I think along with most everyone there, share some deep resentments what's going on. I only hope those younger ones here can figure out how to salvage what liberties are being greatly reduced or soon to vanish. Regardless the outcome, this is a monumental change to the world.
Count me as one veteran who probably disagrees with those conclusions or where any blame lies.

I've heard these claims about loss of liberty for decades, since the Cold War, through the Civil Rights era, and every presidential administration. No one has ever presented a credible, compelling case to support their personal biases.

Every administration and party has been an equal participant in legislation and policies that some groups will interpret as threats to liberty, on both extremes. It is simply the nature of government to occasionally take courses that -- either in the interest of the greater good, or in the interest of serving special interests -- will appear to constrain certain liberties, satisfying some while being taken as threats by others. Neither side has clean hands or claims to being the sole defender of liberty.

As usual, the main threat to liberty is unfounded fear-driven paranoia that turns Americans against each other.
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Old 04-17-20, 10:57 PM
  #293  
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It is certainly not a hoax, but a lot of hoaxing is going on in order to take advantage of the crisis. Many of the numbers we have are poor enough to be considered a hoax, like the number of cases and fatality rate. The most likely number of cases is at least ten times the number of diagnosed cases, so the fatality rate is at least one-tenth the obvious figure. The only hard figure we have is the fatality number, and even this is suspect as the CDC had told doctors to classify any person they suspect died while infected with the virus be added to the figures, even if that person was not tested. And a number of those who died while being positive for the virus were not necessarily killed by it, more than 7 million people die from respiratory disease in a normal year. More than one person has drowned after being shot with a gun, but it was the water which killed them, not the gunshot.

Coronavirus is not hoax, but too much related to the pandemic is indeed a hoax.
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Old 04-17-20, 11:24 PM
  #294  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
I've spent half an hour looking for any stories of Wuhan area factories burning, r.
Can easily source 50+ sites. Try this.
https://www-ntdtv-com.cdn.ampproject...102823619.html
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Old 04-17-20, 11:42 PM
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Interesting. But NTDTV is far from an unbiased source. The Falun Gong have opposed the Chinese government and played a cryptic role in supporting the Trump administration, including a recent barrage of ads on YouTube promoting their Epoch Times media outlet targeting Americans. They were booted from Facebook awhile ago for violating terms.

Not to say they're inaccurate. It's impossible to tell from any news source that biases narratives one way or another. Sometimes that's the point -- to poison the well so news consumers will doubt everything other than whatever agrees with their biases.
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Old 04-17-20, 11:50 PM
  #296  
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Originally Posted by 50PlusCycling View Post
It is certainly not a hoax, but a lot of hoaxing is going on in order to take advantage of the crisis. Many of the numbers we have are poor enough to be considered a hoax, like the number of cases and fatality rate. The most likely number of cases is at least ten times the number of diagnosed cases, so the fatality rate is at least one-tenth the obvious figure. The only hard figure we have is the fatality number, and even this is suspect as the CDC had told doctors to classify any person they suspect died while infected with the virus be added to the figures, even if that person was not tested. And a number of those who died while being positive for the virus were not necessarily killed by it, more than 7 million people die from respiratory disease in a normal year. More than one person has drowned after being shot with a gun, but it was the water which killed them, not the gunshot.

Coronavirus is not hoax, but too much related to the pandemic is indeed a hoax.
Covid-19 as cause of death was discussed up thread starting at post #158 and going from there.
https://www.bikeforums.net/21416216-post158.html
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Old 04-18-20, 12:06 AM
  #297  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
There's a huge difference between not being able to buy meat at the local supermarket and not being able to feed your family. Americans will decide the only source of protein left is peanut butter and eat a jarful with every meal.
Of course.

Was simply pointing out that when it comes to food availability, if it gets far enough then folks are going to draw the line. Being out of tissues is one thing. Being out of sufficient food ...

Clearly, one single item not being on a shelf won't cause a whole society to riot, let alone crumble.
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Old 04-18-20, 12:10 AM
  #298  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Interesting. But NTDTV is far from an unbiased source. The Falun Gong have opposed the Chinese government and played a cryptic role in supporting the Trump administration, including a recent barrage of ads on YouTube promoting their Epoch Times media outlet targeting Americans. They were booted from Facebook awhile ago for violating terms.

Not to say they're inaccurate. It's impossible to tell from any news source that biases narratives one way or another. Sometimes that's the point -- to poison the well so news consumers will doubt everything other than whatever agrees with their biases.
Its late and I've got to get up early. Of course we're free to judge, opinionated respects back to you.

Anyways, there's a good number of legit vid clips of most recent fires and one could easily get the backside source, date, location.

How's this little not noted in the USA news? Use one of those links and make your judgement of it.
French under attack.

BTW, there's an 'official' Chinese name for 'COVID19' but I'm 100% positive the wanksters admins would call me out if I stated that OFFICIAL name. - AGAIN. Lol whatever. Stay safe and happy trails.

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Old 04-18-20, 02:22 AM
  #299  
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An interesting thing about the crisis is the difference in how it is reported around the world. Here in Japan the news has been quite objective about the situation, the news media does not love the prime minister or his government, but it does not use the crisis as a tool to try to criticize him or get him removed from office. The news here is not sensational, it simply states what is going on with facts and figures, and policy announcements. As a result, people are thinking more about the problem at hand, and not wasting their time engaging in hate. Because the stories are not sensationalized, there is no manufactured sense of urgency or fear. So, there is no panic buying, store shelves fully stocked, one can easily find meat, eggs, butter, or other products, and you can even buy toilet paper, hand sanitizer and masks. Much as I have loved America over my life, I am rather happy that I am not there now,
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Old 04-18-20, 07:23 AM
  #300  
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Originally Posted by 50PlusCycling View Post
An interesting thing about the crisis is the difference in how it is reported around the world. Here in Japan the news has been quite objective about the situation, the news media does not love the prime minister or his government, but it does not use the crisis as a tool to try to criticize him or get him removed from office. The news here is not sensational, it simply states what is going on with facts and figures, and policy announcements. As a result, people are thinking more about the problem at hand, and not wasting their time engaging in hate. Because the stories are not sensationalized, there is no manufactured sense of urgency or fear. So, there is no panic buying, store shelves fully stocked, one can easily find meat, eggs, butter, or other products, and you can even buy toilet paper, hand sanitizer and masks. Much as I have loved America over my life, I am rather happy that I am not there now,
I've been monitoring the Japanese news sites since early January, on account of we were due to arrive next week, we cancelled our flights as soon as JAL announced refunds. Pretty well from looking in from the outside the Japanese have sleep walked into a crisis of their own making. They completely squandered the natural advantages their social behaviour and mask wearing had, by Abe Shinzo trying to minimise testing and official announcements about social distancing to give the Olympics the best chance of going ahead. He's not deranged like Trump, but he has stuffed up big time in underestimating the spread of the virus and has a lot of catching up to do https://mainichi.jp/english/articles...0m/0na/071000c
I cancelled our flights as soon as JAL allowed because I couldn't see anything special that makes Japan any more resistant to the spread of Covid-19 in the absence of an early adopting of effective social distancing, other than mask wearing and bowing as a greeting, Given the sharp rise in cases in the last few days I'm glad I did cancel, even if travel was allowed I don't think westerners would get a warm welcome touring around. https://mainichi.jp/english/articles...0m/0na/028000c This kind of thing is happening in Australia as well, and we have very low infection rates.
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