Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

Spoke Count...32

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

Spoke Count...32

Old 05-03-20, 05:27 PM
  #1  
Chrisp72
Roleur of Dough
Thread Starter
 
Chrisp72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: GTA, Ontario
Posts: 107

Bikes: Kuwahara Caravan, Specialized Stumpjumper S Works

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Spoke Count...32

Hello all!

Here's my dilemma... I have an old 8 speed Dura Ace hub that I was hoping to trade for a 36 hole hub. I had a taker but he or she has backed out. I'm trying to source an equal level hub that's in good shape that I can mount a seven speed cassette onto. I am now thinking that I should just use the Dura Ace hub and build up a great wheel and use that.

I'm in no rush as I'm sitting at home most days under a stay at home order in my province. I've had a lot of feedback in other threads about riding 36 hole wheels (lots of people love them) but I've only heard a little about the benefits of a 32 hole wheel for touring.

If I were to build the rear using the 32 hole Dura Ace hub I would try to use DT Alpin III spokes and Velocity Dyads with brass nipples. I think this wheel should be strong enough for loaded touring and I would get it built up by a Toronto bike shop that would give me a guarantee and stand behind their work.

It's going to take a while to acquire everything as I attempt to purchase other items for a small tour while getting the wheel components.

What are people's experiences with 32 hole wheels on touring bikes?
Chrisp72 is offline  
Old 05-03-20, 06:23 PM
  #2  
staehpj1 
Senior Member
 
staehpj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 9,690
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 56 Posts
Most folks will say to get a 36 spoke wheel and for loaded touring you really can't go wrong getting the extra spokes. That said a well built hand built 32 spoke wheel is probably adequate. How much you plan to carry is a major factor in the choice. If you don't have anything but a hub so far I wouldn't get too locked in, You can usually find used or even new old stock hubs pretty cheaply on ebay.
__________________
Check out my profile, articles, and trip journals at:
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/staehpj1
staehpj1 is offline  
Old 05-03-20, 06:29 PM
  #3  
Brian25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 720

Bikes: Road, mountain and track bikes and tandems.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 15 Posts
There are potentially a lot of factors here. If you wrote in and said you are a 4'- 10" (short) 85 pound woman touring with 20 pounds of gear, I would say don't worry about it, go for it.
I have done a few tours on 32 spoke front wheels. The rear wheel is far more likely to break spokes. I do not know how much touring you plan to do or your weight/ gear weight. How do you feel about sitting on the side of the road, unloading your gear, removing the cassette, installing the new spoke and truing the wheel back up and then repacking the bike. I really prefer to not have to go through that. (I am perfectly capable as I was a bike store owner/ mechanic for over 12 years.) If you can go 36 spoke in the rear, I would highly recommend it. Just like I see no advantage to have internal cable routing on a bike that has huge air catching bags attached to it I do not see having 4 less spokes in a rear wheel being any sort of advantage either. Also, If yo want to throw all this money into an expensive Dura Ace level hub to use on a 7 speed bike how about using a less expensive hub and spend the saved money on a drive train with more gears?
Brian25 is offline  
Old 05-04-20, 04:51 AM
  #4  
elcruxio
Senior Member
 
elcruxio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Turku, Finland, Europe
Posts: 1,911

Bikes: 2011 Specialized crux comp, 2013 Specialized Rockhopper Pro

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 31 Times in 25 Posts
The advantage I see in using 32 spokes is better availability of parts. Most rims and hubs are made with 32 spoke drillings whereas 36h hubs and rims are in fact relatively uncommon. Shimano has them in most model ranges but whether they are in stock is a different issue.

It also depends on the rim size. I wouldn't like touring with 32 spokes with a 28 inch wheel but with 27,5 inches 32 spokes would already be acceptable and 26 inch wheel is actually more durable with 32 spokes than a 28 inch wheel is with 36.
elcruxio is offline  
Old 05-04-20, 05:21 AM
  #5  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 6,964

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1740 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 219 Times in 183 Posts
As noted above, depends on how much weight you put on the bike. Sounds like it is a 130mm spaced hub, if your frame is steel you can probably run a 135mm hub in your frame with no problem, and if so you could use a Deore steel axle hub which would not have that nice shiny look but would be quite strong. I like a nice looking touring bike as much as the next person does, but when it comes to components like hubs and wheels, I put structural integrity first, and nobody is going to see your hub when you have panniers on the bike.

You probably would have to use a disc brake hub if you used a new hub, but you certainly could use a disc hub in a rim brake bike, in which case you would have a wheel that would work in any bike you bought in the future.

I am running a 16 year old 135mm hub inside my rando bike (steel frame), that frame is spaced at 130mm. And I am running a 126mm hub inside my vintage Italian Columbus tubing racing bike that is spaced at 120mm. It just takes a bit more effort to get the wheel into the frame.

Three years ago I built up a 36H touring wheel with a XT M756A hub and Dyad rim. That is a disc hub that is spaced at 135mm. That hub was at a good price. I like the older design Shimano steel axle freehub hubs that used quarter inch ball bearings, have them on four of my bikes.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 05-04-20, 07:22 AM
  #6  
staehpj1 
Senior Member
 
staehpj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 9,690
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
The advantage I see in using 32 spokes is better availability of parts. Most rims and hubs are made with 32 spoke drillings whereas 36h hubs and rims are in fact relatively uncommon. Shimano has them in most model ranges but whether they are in stock is a different issue.
That may be generally true, I don't know, but... When I wore out a rim mid tour and wanted to find a replacement for a 32 hole mavic open pro, I was looking for any rim that would lace on with the same spokes for ease of replacement mid tour. This was on my 1990 Cannondale Crit bike that I perversely like to tour on. An open pro would have been my first choice and an open sport my second, but I would have taken anything that fit since the rim was ready to fail completely pretty soon. I called every bike shop within 100 miles and found nothing. I eventually settled for a built up 36 spoke wheel that a shop had in stock. I forget what components it has, but it was a lower end but not too bad wheel. Some time I'd like to build up another wheel with the original hub and an open pro rim or find a nice used one in good shape, but I may never get around to it.

I expected the rim to last for the tour. I figured there was a small chance it just might need replacement on the tour, but it never occurred to me that it might be difficult to find a replacement.
__________________
Check out my profile, articles, and trip journals at:
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/staehpj1
staehpj1 is offline  
Old 05-04-20, 08:32 AM
  #7  
Chrisp72
Roleur of Dough
Thread Starter
 
Chrisp72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: GTA, Ontario
Posts: 107

Bikes: Kuwahara Caravan, Specialized Stumpjumper S Works

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 15 Posts
I'm roughly 210lbs and 6 foot tall. I think I'll exercise a bit of patience and hold out for a 36 hole rear wheel. It's good to know that a 135mm rear hub will potentially work and that should streamline the sourcing part. I'm sure we could discuss which seals on Shimano hubs are better...road or mountain...but I suspect the mountain would win out.

As for upgrading the drivetrain on my old Kuwahara Caravan...Not just yet. I think the 12 to 28 cogset on the back should be good once mated to a 24 or 26 tooth granny up front and all the components on the bike are in good shape. I don't want to switch out the gearing for the sake of getting something new when the old equipment should do.

I'll see what I can find in a 36 hole rear wheel and hopefully use the Dura Ace hubs as trade.
Chrisp72 is offline  
Old 05-04-20, 09:53 AM
  #8  
pdlamb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 5,958

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1213 Post(s)
Liked 294 Times in 207 Posts
Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
The advantage I see in using 32 spokes is better availability of parts. Most rims and hubs are made with 32 spoke drillings whereas 36h hubs and rims are in fact relatively uncommon. Shimano has them in most model ranges but whether they are in stock is a different issue.

It also depends on the rim size. I wouldn't like touring with 32 spokes with a 28 inch wheel but with 27,5 inches 32 spokes would already be acceptable and 26 inch wheel is actually more durable with 32 spokes than a 28 inch wheel is with 36.
You may come across a shop with rims and/or hubs in stock. Murphy's Law says they'll be the wrong size or drilling for your needs.

Once you decide to hit mail order (or is that web order now?), you'll be able to find about any rim or hub you need.
pdlamb is online now  
Old 05-04-20, 10:13 AM
  #9  
robow
Senior Member
 
robow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,371
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked 44 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by Chrisp72 View Post
I'm roughly 210lbs and 6 foot tall. I think I'll exercise a bit of patience and hold out for a 36 hole rear wheel.
Very wise choice in my opinion. Also, lesser experienced touring cyclists tend to carry more "stuff" in my experience and/or tend to carry items that are less expensive but heavier. Either way, you'll never regret having 4 more spokes while touring. If you have 130 rear spacing then you can likely find a solid 105 hub that won't cost you a bunch and yet will give you years of riding with proper maintenance.
robow is offline  
Likes For robow:
Old 05-04-20, 10:32 AM
  #10  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 6,964

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1740 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 219 Times in 183 Posts
Regarding finding a new rim in a store if you need a replacement, several years ago I would have assumed that 36H rims would have been most common if you are looking for a touring strength rim. But, now that new bikes rarely have a 36H wheel, I am beginning to think that 32 will be a more common replacement rim.

Nobody has ever accused me of being a lightweight packer, I want 36 spokes in the rear. I would take 40 if hubs and rims were more common. It might be harder to replace a 36, but I am banking on it being less likely to need replacement so I will stick with 36 for the rear.

A lot of shops these days are hesitant to carry inventory that they might not sell within a few months so you might need to wait for an overnight shipment for just about anything you need. Hopefully a weekend does not make your wait longer.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Likes For Tourist in MSN:
Old 05-04-20, 04:53 PM
  #11  
Chrisp72
Roleur of Dough
Thread Starter
 
Chrisp72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: GTA, Ontario
Posts: 107

Bikes: Kuwahara Caravan, Specialized Stumpjumper S Works

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 15 Posts
The hunt for a new wheel has begun. I ordered a Deore 135mm 36 hole hub. It's being mailed from Montreal.

As I was hunting for wheels on Pinkbike there appeared just recently a set of disc Phil Wood hubs mated to Velocity Dyad rims. The person posting is down in the States and is only asking $250. I thought about getting the wheels but didn't want to fork over any more for replacement rims for my use. It's a great offer and someone here should snap it up.
Chrisp72 is offline  
Old 05-04-20, 05:46 PM
  #12  
Russ Roth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 819

Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 299 Post(s)
Liked 203 Times in 153 Posts
I'm running 32h dyads with similar spokes, I probably weigh as much as you and your bags and the wheel hasn't needed any adjustment now in its second year. I've used the bike on entry level MTB trails and last year loaded it for a few hundred miles with a trailer and bags. Things are moving away from more spokes as the quality of spokes has improved and the strength of rims has really gone up. How old is your Kuwahara? You mention 7sp which would be 127mm, stretching to 135mm even on a steel bike is something I really wouldn't want to do. If I was worried about strength and sticking with 7 speed I would consider getting an axle for a 130mm road hub and adding 3mm to the non-drive side only, it won't completely make the difference but by moving the rim over the difference it will help to balance spoke tension and make a stronger build.
Russ Roth is offline  
Old 05-04-20, 06:06 PM
  #13  
Chrisp72
Roleur of Dough
Thread Starter
 
Chrisp72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: GTA, Ontario
Posts: 107

Bikes: Kuwahara Caravan, Specialized Stumpjumper S Works

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
I'm running 32h dyads with similar spokes, I probably weigh as much as you and your bags and the wheel hasn't needed any adjustment now in its second year. I've used the bike on entry level MTB trails and last year loaded it for a few hundred miles with a trailer and bags. Things are moving away from more spokes as the quality of spokes has improved and the strength of rims has really gone up. How old is your Kuwahara? You mention 7sp which would be 127mm, stretching to 135mm even on a steel bike is something I really wouldn't want to do. If I was worried about strength and sticking with 7 speed I would consider getting an axle for a 130mm road hub and adding 3mm to the non-drive side only, it won't completely make the difference but by moving the rim over the difference it will help to balance spoke tension and make a stronger build.
Russ Roth...I have a 10 speed 105 hub on there now. I can ride the bike but want to get something beefier on there for loaded touring. Plus, sourcing parts now is a good way to pass the time. I now have a Deore mountain hub thats 135mm in the mail. It should scratch the rear wheel itch.
Chrisp72 is offline  
Old 05-04-20, 06:19 PM
  #14  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 6,964

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1740 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 219 Times in 183 Posts
To run your seven speed cassette on that hub you might need a spacer, I have not tried to put a seven speed cassette on an eight speed hub, so i am not sure the details, someone else here should know what you need.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Likes For Tourist in MSN:
Old 05-05-20, 07:24 PM
  #15  
BCDrums
Recreational Road Cyclist
 
BCDrums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: MetroWest, Mass.
Posts: 278

Bikes: 1990 Peter Mooney road bike

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked 61 Times in 43 Posts
36h: good choice

Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
Most folks will say to get a 36 spoke wheel and for loaded touring you really can't go wrong getting the extra spokes. That said a well built hand built 32 spoke wheel is probably adequate.
Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
I wouldn't like touring with 32 spokes with a 28 inch wheel but with 27,5 inches 32 spokes would already be acceptable...
Originally Posted by Chrisp72 View Post
I'm roughly 210lbs and 6 foot tall.
Originally Posted by Chrisp72 View Post
The hunt for a new wheel has begun. I ordered a Deore 135mm 36 hole hub. It's being mailed from Montreal.
Adequate and acceptable don't fill me with confidence. I crossed the country on an unsupported tour with 36h wheels. No problems, while my fellow tourists were poppin' spokes and re-truing every night. I had a new wheelset built last summer for general road riding, and used 36h. I don't care about the extra grams, and they haven't budged from true.

You're a substantial guy, I think you made a prudent choice with 36h. As to availability of parts on the tour; if you need a new rim or hub, you already have a major disaster, just buy the best wheel you can find and move along until you can get arrange for better. But a parts failure is less likely with a strong wheel, short of accident.
BCDrums is offline  
Old 05-06-20, 08:54 PM
  #16  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 6,127

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Pink Klein MTB, Phil Wood VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), Cilo Road Frame, Proteus frame

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1491 Post(s)
Liked 303 Times in 221 Posts
I would probably go with a White Industries M15 for a road touring bike. I think Dura Ace is fantastic but it is lightweight road racing equipment and not really well designed for touring. I have a set of White Industries T11 hubs on my road bike and they are fantastic and I have a set of CLD hubs I plan on using on another bike and a lot of bikes in the future will probably also use their hubs because they are excellent quality and the people are just super nice. However Phil Wood is another great choice and also MUSA.

In terms of cassette I would just pop a spacer on the back if I am indexed and if I am friction than I would just go 9 speed (and still probably need a spacer of a different size)

My touring wheels are 32h with Paul hubs (back when Paul could make a cassette hub before i9 stopped making free hubs for them) and have been pretty stout but were also built by Bill Mould who is a master wheel builder.
veganbikes is offline  
Old 05-09-20, 03:54 AM
  #17  
SquishyBiker
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I'm 110kg and toured on respoked 32 spoke wheels ... we overpacked badly, I ran 90psi in the rear tire on gravel too, but I never had any spoke issues on the wheels.
Maybe look to better quality spokes rather than more of them...
SquishyBiker is offline  
Old 05-09-20, 09:34 AM
  #18  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 22,721

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, an orange one and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3361 Post(s)
Liked 812 Times in 511 Posts
Originally Posted by Chrisp72 View Post

The hunt for a new wheel has begun. I ordered a Deore 135mm 36 hole hub. It's being mailed from Montreal.
The 32 spoke hub with Alpine III would probably have worked. The thicker head on the spoke does add a lot of strength. That said, I would suggest using the Alpine III for your build with the 36 spoke wheels as well. Itís cheap insurance.

Originally Posted by Chrisp72 View Post
As I was hunting for wheels on Pinkbike there appeared just recently a set of disc Phil Wood hubs mated to Velocity Dyad rims. The person posting is down in the States and is only asking $250. I thought about getting the wheels but didn't want to fork over any more for replacement rims for my use. It's a great offer and someone here should snap it up.
Iím not sure what you are looking for in rims but donít worry too much about rim strength. Rims really donít add too much to the strength of the wheel. The spokes do all the heavy lifting and the rim gets all the glory...undeservingly.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.