Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

New Deore 12 speed groupset

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

New Deore 12 speed groupset

Old 05-13-20, 05:03 PM
  #1  
djb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 10,359
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1632 Post(s)
Liked 254 Times in 221 Posts
New Deore 12 speed groupset

despite being partly a grumpy old grouch for some tech stuff, I think this is pretty neat.
Deore is, and always has been, that sweet spot of cost/performance/longevity/availability, so this is pretty neat that 1x and 2x options of 11 and 12 speed are in that Deore price range.
although I still like triples, I'd be open to play with considering a 11 speed double one day

anyway, a blurb describing it

https://cyclingmagazine.ca/mtb/shima...wide-range-11/

who knows what sort of real life longevity you'd get out of this stuff.
djb is offline  
Old 05-13-20, 07:06 PM
  #2  
Nyah
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Shenandoah Valley, Northern Virginia.
Posts: 234

Bikes: '99 Trek 520, Konacado ('20 Kona Sutra).

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 46 Times in 34 Posts
No way to work with a triple?
Nyah is offline  
Old 05-13-20, 08:07 PM
  #3  
djb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 10,359
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1632 Post(s)
Liked 254 Times in 221 Posts
Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
No way to work with a triple?
don't quote me, but I suspect that with all the really wide wide cassettes that have been appearing over the last bunch of years, 11-40, 42, 51 that the spread would be too much for a rd with a triple.
The article does mention the 11 speed stuff also getting this bonkers 11-51 cassette, and says that the 11 speed 11-42 will work with a double--I guess this isnt new, but it does probably offer some interesting double 11 speed possibilities

I still laugh when I see these new uber large cassettes, its pretty wild how derailleur technology has progressed.
and cool.
Im still looking at all this from an outsider view though, happy to stick a few steps behind.
djb is offline  
Likes For djb:
Old 05-13-20, 08:26 PM
  #4  
robow
Senior Member
 
robow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,372
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 342 Post(s)
Liked 44 Times in 37 Posts
At first glance I think of this as silly but...... with a double of 46-30 up front and an 11x42 in the rear, I'm looking at a low of 19 gear inches which is the same as my triple of 24 front and 34 rear. Not sure of the actual 12 cogs but the steps wouldn't have to be that outrageous. Hmmm
robow is offline  
Old 05-13-20, 09:14 PM
  #5  
djb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 10,359
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1632 Post(s)
Liked 254 Times in 221 Posts
I don't keep up of what doubles are common, but I was thinking a 42/28 would make a possibly interesting setup.

they do say that the 12 speed can have a 10-51 , the 11 speed is 11-51
djb is offline  
Old 05-13-20, 11:27 PM
  #6  
saddlesores
Senior Member
 
saddlesores's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bangkok...and....Hainan
Posts: 3,156

Bikes: inferior steel....and....noodly aluminium

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 810 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 73 Times in 54 Posts
Originally Posted by djb View Post
...The article does mention the 11 speed stuff also getting this bonkers 11-51 cassette, ..
now don't quote me, but isn't one of the selling points for going 1x getting rid of a couple rings and a shifter, cutting weight?

'normal' cassettes are heavy enough, but a 51T cassette would be a freakin' boat anchor!
saddlesores is offline  
Old 05-14-20, 04:07 AM
  #7  
djb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 10,359
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1632 Post(s)
Liked 254 Times in 221 Posts
They do mention two versions one with aluminum and other steel, and I think they mentioned weights too. I didn't pay attention tbh and don't recall numbers.
but yes, that's why I laugh seeing these big cassettes, they really do look like pie plates
djb is offline  
Old 05-14-20, 07:09 AM
  #8  
Nyah
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Shenandoah Valley, Northern Virginia.
Posts: 234

Bikes: '99 Trek 520, Konacado ('20 Kona Sutra).

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 46 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
No way to work with a triple?
All I need is a front derailer and bar-end shifters to make this work w/a triple.

And of course, I have no desire for a cassette with an 8+ tooth-difference between cogs. So screw the 51, I'm excited about other possibilities that this opens up.

Last edited by Nyah; 05-14-20 at 07:15 AM.
Nyah is offline  
Old 05-14-20, 07:35 AM
  #9  
pdlamb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 5,971

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1223 Post(s)
Liked 300 Times in 210 Posts
Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
now don't quote me, but isn't one of the selling points for going 1x getting rid of a couple rings and a shifter, cutting weight?

'normal' cassettes are heavy enough, but a 51T cassette would be a freakin' boat anchor!
In steel, no less. How do three cogs over 36 teeth each, in steel, weigh less than a 22 or 24 tooth chainring?

And at what cassette count do we need to start worrying about dinging up the cassette against rocks or curbs?
pdlamb is offline  
Likes For pdlamb:
Old 05-14-20, 07:55 AM
  #10  
stardognine
Senior Member
 
stardognine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Arid Arizona, for now.
Posts: 2,692

Bikes: 1995 Cannondale Killer V

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 264 Times in 197 Posts
Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
In steel, no less. How do three cogs over 36 teeth each, in steel, weigh less than a 22 or 24 tooth chainring?

And at what cassette count do we need to start worrying about dinging up the cassette against rocks or curbs?
Im not really very excited about 11 or 12 speed, but the pie-plate gears are kinda interesting. I wish theyd put some together, with lots of EVEN jumps between the gears though. In aluminum or titanium, please. 😉

And Id like to see these cassette options in 9-speed units, too. I dont want to have to throw away my XTR brifters, trying to be cool. 🤔😉
stardognine is offline  
Old 05-14-20, 08:40 AM
  #11  
saddlesores
Senior Member
 
saddlesores's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bangkok...and....Hainan
Posts: 3,156

Bikes: inferior steel....and....noodly aluminium

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 810 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 73 Times in 54 Posts
Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
In steel, no less. How do three cogs over 36 teeth each, in steel, weigh less than a 22 or 24 tooth chainring?

And at what cassette count do we need to start worrying about dinging up the cassette against rocks or curbs?
hmmm....vs. 9-speed cassette at about 300 grams



461 g (10-45T), 470 g (10-51T)

10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-40-45T
10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51T


and weight for the 2x cranks, cause it IS for touring:

FC-M8120-B2 (36-26T, 175mm, w/o BB) is 672g
C-M8100-2 (36-26T, 175mm, w/o BB) is 654g.


would have to see how it would work with a 3x crank for an awesome 36-speed touring setup.
saddlesores is offline  
Old 05-14-20, 09:48 AM
  #12  
djb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 10,359
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1632 Post(s)
Liked 254 Times in 221 Posts
Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
All I need is a front derailer and bar-end shifters to make this work w/a triple.

And of course, I have no desire for a cassette with an 8+ tooth-difference between cogs. So screw the 51, I'm excited about other possibilities that this opens up.
even with friction bar end shifters for a fd, you'd still be up against the massive large ring up front+ 50t in back that would be a heck of a lot of chain length that , I believe, no rd could take up and would be way past their capacity

and yes, the jump from 42 to 50ish teeth is 20%, which is a lot. From experience, the 18, 19, 20% jumps are annoying, which I certainly like to avoid
djb is offline  
Old 05-14-20, 01:25 PM
  #13  
Chrisp72
Roleur of Dough
 
Chrisp72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: GTA, Ontario
Posts: 107

Bikes: Kuwahara Caravan, Specialized Stumpjumper S Works

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 15 Posts
So here's my two cents...How is this going to work with the GRX gruppo?
Chrisp72 is offline  
Old 05-14-20, 02:08 PM
  #14  
seeker333
-
 
seeker333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,849

Bikes: yes!

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 275 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 32 Posts
Am I missing something here, or has this discussion ignored the fact that the Shimano 1x12 MTB drivetrain is intended for use with "boost" thru-hubs only, which are incompatible with most dedicated touring frames and bikes, which generally require 135mm x10mm QR rear hub. I cannot find any micro spline capable 135 QR Shimano hub. I don't think they make one or intended 1x12 for touring application.

DT and Hope seem to have either micro spline 135x10 QR hub (one in 36h!) or adapter freehub for older model hubs. In addition to having to spend ~$200 on a rear hub, you will have to order it (possibly with long wait), then have a custom rear wheel (wheelset if you want matching hubs/rims) made, or DIY.

If you are seriously considering SLX 1x12 drivetrain, be sure to factor in the cost of custom wheel ($350 +). Or a new frameset/bike with thru hub capability (Surly Troll comes to mind). I know that seems a little pricey, but bear in mind that 1x12s SLX means you do not need a front derailleur, gear shifter, double or triple crankset and 100cm of cable and housing - just think of the mechanical simplification and weight savings!
seeker333 is offline  
Old 05-14-20, 03:03 PM
  #15  
djb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 10,359
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1632 Post(s)
Liked 254 Times in 221 Posts
Originally Posted by seeker333 View Post
Am I missing something here, or has this discussion ignored the fact that the Shimano 1x12 MTB drivetrain is intended for use with "boost" thru-hubs only, which are incompatible with most dedicated touring frames and bikes, which generally require 135mm x10mm QR rear hub. I cannot find any micro spline capable 135 QR Shimano hub. I don't think they make one or intended 1x12 for touring application.

DT and Hope seem to have either micro spline 135x10 QR hub (one in 36h!) or adapter freehub for older model hubs. In addition to having to spend ~$200 on a rear hub, you will have to order it (possibly with long wait), then have a custom rear wheel (wheelset if you want matching hubs/rims) made, or DIY.
the whole hub width thing is probably the real kicker here , as this is all aimed at mtb etc frames that seem to be all using the wider widths, which I admit that I am rather vague on what is what.
142, 148, Im personally not up on being familiar with the various ones now.
djb is offline  
Old 05-14-20, 10:28 PM
  #16  
DropBarFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,151

Bikes: 2013 Surly Disc Trucker, 2004 Novara Randonee , old fixie , etc

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 44 Times in 38 Posts
Crazy with all the road & MTB options but sparse leftovers for trad drop-bar touring. No 3X hydraulic brifters; no 10/11/12-speed brifters that use MTB cable-pull, no IGH brifters, no Shimano single-speed hydro road levers for bar-ends or IGH, etc.
DropBarFan is offline  
Old 05-15-20, 01:52 AM
  #17  
saddlesores
Senior Member
 
saddlesores's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bangkok...and....Hainan
Posts: 3,156

Bikes: inferior steel....and....noodly aluminium

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 810 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 73 Times in 54 Posts
Originally Posted by djb View Post
the whole hub width thing is probably the real kicker here , as this is all aimed at mtb etc frames that seem to be all using the wider widths, which I admit that I am rather vague on what is what.
142, 148, Im personally not up on being familiar with the various ones now.
excellent! we're no longer talking marketing 101. they're in grad school now!

you don't just have to buy a new bottom bracket to go with that crank, you need to buy a whole new frame.
saddlesores is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.