specialmonkey

Does anyone know if Wheels Manufacturing (or anyone else) makes cones that are compatible with Schwinn Approved Normandy hubs?

I'm curious for both the Super Sport triangle cutout version as well as the Sports Tourer oblong / kidney cutout version -- are the front / rear axles and cones compatible between these two hub models?


Can anyone tell me which cones to get for the front and rear triangle cutout hubs, and if different for the oblong / kidney cutout hubs?


Thanks for any info!

Andrew R Stewart 

Schwinn used both French made (Normandy) and Japanese made (San Sin/Sun Shine?) hubs for many years. The Euro ones were phased out during the late 1970s (IIRC). Both axle threading and cone surface curvatures were different and not generally interchangeable. So more info is needed before I could help more. The triangular cut out flanges are the Asian hubs and the kidney shaped ones could be either.


In the end after confirming threading compatibility and cone diameter/lengths a trial fit to determine the bearing surface match up will be the best method of figuring out actual compatibilities. Andy.

juvela

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Schwinn also used a "Luxe" or "Deluxe" model hub from Normandy: not Luxe Competition. It has a somewhat better finish than the Schwinn Approved Normandy Sport. No oil hole or label. Odd model & rare.

Does not seem to be shown at VB.

Edit -

Beautifully explained by metacortex here: https://www.bikeforums.net/18515178-post18.html
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oddjob2

While I agree the axle threading may be different, I would think that the cone's geometry of the contact surface is dictated by the diameter of the ball bearings?

Andrew R Stewart 

No. The angle of the contact between the cone and the cup is different between hubs with otherwise the same ball size. This is one of the differences that Shimano hubs ( of late 1970s/early 80s) had with the Euro hubs . IIRC the Shimano angle was 22* with the Euro typically steeper. This affects the cone/cup surface curvature as well as the cone's initial diameter (the beginning of the curved face). Today we see 10 3/16" balls used in front hubs with cones that are not interchangeable but with axle threadings that are. To use the wrong cone in a hub will mean that th balls might contact the very end/edge/corner of the cone. This results in a very quick break down of the cone/rolling surface (or contact point). Ask me how I know this... Not the best repair result!

oddjob2

^ Good to know, thanks!

Metacortex

The 1970s Japanese made Schwinn Approved hubs with triangular cutouts were only available in non-quick-release versions with solid axles and as such are not relevant to the OPs question. The 1960s through 1970s Normandy made Sprint or Schwinn Approved quick-release (hollow axle) hubs were available in both triangular and kidney bean cutout styles. The former were used on the Continental, Sprint and Super Sport while the latter were branded Schwinn Approved Deluxe and used on the Sports Tourer and Superior. Both used the exact same axles, cones and all other parts, they differed only in the external shell.

Unfortunately I am not aware of any aftermarket replacement cones that match, and since NOS axle sets or cones seem to be non-existent the only other source I know of would be a donor hub. Fortunately there are probably a few hundred thousand old Chicago-built Continentals out there to source them from.

That being said there is a suggested rear replacement cone in the detailed and informative post by @verktyg in the topic here, but I have not tested it and have no idea if it will work: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post18310458

specialmonkey

Thanks all. Yes, I'm curious about 1970s Super Sport (triangle) and 1970s Sports Tourer (oblong / kidney) cutout Normandy QR hubs. I'm surprised there is no definitive info ...

I did see the detailed @verktyg thread, but want to know about front _and_ rear cones, and that thread doesn't confirm the suggested cone actually works -- or whether the parts are interchangeable between hub models.

The length measurement for the replacement cone suggested seems a bit larger than my cones (though maybe it's the closest) I don't have calipers but my front and rear SS cones seem to be about 9.5 and 11.5 mm long respectively, the width however in the suggested part seems close (maybe it's more important since it has the bearing surface) -- I guess I'll need to measure my cones and try replacements for myself. I'll update this thread if I find good options.

Here's what my Super Sport axles look like (from Normandy QA hubs with triangle cutouts):

axles-ss.jpg

Metacortex

The only definitive info is that there are no aftermarket replacement cones available. As I was saying a Continental parts bike (or wheelset) is probably your best bet for replacement cones. If going that route you'll want to look for a 1975 or earlier model ('76 and later had one or both bolt-on hubs), preferably a ladies' model as those were often barely ridden and are valued at much less as well.

specialmonkey

Thanks for the info, would cones from bolt-on axles not work?

Bandera

No, two different size axles.

-Bandera

juvela

Axle diameters differ between solid and hollow on the front. Solid is 8.0mm X 1.0 and hollow is 9.0mm X 1.0.

Rears both 9.5mm X 1.0.

Cones made for solid axle usually marked with a ring on the back side. Those made for hollow not marked.

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specialmonkey

Thanks, that is good to know!

juvela

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Metacortex posted these pages from the Schwinn parts catalogue in an earlier thread:

specialmonkey

Thanks, there's another thread here with some good info and links to parts on eBay that might work, along with an implication that the Wheels Mfg. stuff is unlikely to be a good fit. I ordered some of the Maillard axle sets mentioned in the referenced thread, hopefully I'll only need to remove the dust cap and be good to go.

alexnagui

I am running Wheel Mfg CN-R086 cones in a Pellisier front hub as an experiment. Those hubs are basically the same as Normandy high flange hubs. The curvature of the bearing surface does not match the one of the original cones but so far they seem to work fine. The bearing surface is also much smaller than that of the original cones. Anyway, I took the hub apart today to see how things are doing and took some pictures. It's been around 300-350km since I installed them. One of the cones has developed a slight groove more or less in the middle of the bearing surface which is as it suppopsed to be. I am thinking about ordering another set of Wheel Mfg cones for another French wheelset, also a pair of rear ones.
To be continued...

dddd

I would say that looks healthy. Thanks for the data!

And if the diameter and length are correct, it's no accident.

alexnagui

I realized today that the second wheelset I need cones for came with non-original cones. Both front and rear ones have their bearing paths more or less in the middle, so it's good news! The front cone measures approximately 11.7mm in length and 15.7mm in diameter. The rear one is about 13mm long and 17mm in diameter.

I found an almost identical pair of cones for the rear in my parts bin which are 13.6mm long and 17mm in diameter. I just have to figure out where I got them from. If I am not mistaken I got them about 3 years ago from a bike store when I needed a replacement solid axle for a bike I don't have anymore. I am wodering if they are Weldtite cones. Anyway, the ones I've got look very similar to Wheel Manfacturing CN-R081 cones, so my guess is that those ones should work as well.

Salamandrine 

Great info. Thanks for sharing. Normandy hubs were the most common hub out there for many years. Bike shops usually had a big pile of replacement cones in a drawer, but those days are gone.

alexnagui

No problem, I just thought that this info might be useful for those who look for replacement cones for Normandy hubs. Whenever I overhaul those for the first time I almost always find pitted cones, especially on front hubs.

alexnagui

So, I have ordered some front axles in order to see if I can find other replacment cones for Normandy hubs. This one comes with cones almost identical to the ones I found in the front hub (see my post above). They are probably a little wee longer. I think those axles/cones are identical to the ones from Cyclus, those are even named Maillard, so supposedly they are meant for French hubs. Not sure about the quality, but what I didn't like is quite rough bearing surfaces.
After reading this article on how to repair pitted cones, I went ahead and decided to polish the cones I've got. A hand drill and some pieces of sanding paper wrapped around an extra axle and here is the result. The cones look much better after polishing.


Polished cone on the right compared to the original one on the left

What I did next is trying to repair some old pitted cones that I have. It took me much more time to do that even though that the cones were not pitted that badly. In the end, I figured out that using a needle file is the quickest way to remove the material and get to the actual pitting and after the pitting was gone I switched back to sanding paper. The end result seems quite promising. The cones look maybe a bit rough in the pictures but in reality they are quite smooth where the balls are supposed to be. I'll be testing both pairs of cones to see how they behave.


All the pitting is gone

branko_76 

Nice work and thanks for posting.

alexnagui

Thanks!