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Water refill in the time of COVID?

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Water refill in the time of COVID?

Old 06-23-20, 02:16 AM
  #76  
GrainBrain
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Silcock key

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Old 06-23-20, 08:11 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by UniChris View Post
That's sadly where things look to be at.

But think about what it means for our society, that something as simple as water means putting on PPE, going into a building, and purchasing a single use plastic jug.

Each step in that chain makes sense in isolation, but viewed in total? That's really what this thread is about.



Ironically that as a matter of posted policy and my practice of compliance requires a mask too. Doubly so as a private (vs building hallway) entrance was one of my keys goals in moving, for the moment unrealized. Granted there is somewhere else I could stop, maybe for a second century, my old "safe return" plan before I'd ever done any century of riding to the end of each local trail and back twice continues to seem rather bland but finding a more local road routing for variety from the pending out-and-back one might have some appeal. I'd just probably keep it circular rather than dipping back through town, thus retaining the refill problem.
Yeah it sucks but what sucks more is spreading COVID-19 even more than we have already chosen to do.

Find new routes, what I have been doing lately is going on routes with some minor similarity and veer off onto some side streets or go in a different direction and maybe get a little lost to the point I can find my way back easily and won't get trapped but have something new and different. It ain't much but it is something.

This is just a super tough time and we have to except that till it is over and if we do our best we can move forward more quickly.
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Old 06-23-20, 10:29 PM
  #78  
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I have a cavernous trunk bag, so I use a 2L Platypus Water Tank to refill my bottles. It holds nearly 3 bottles worth of extra water, though I often put less in it. Once its empty it folds flat. The shape of it makes it easier to fill in a bathroom sink, so I can fill it up, then use it to fill my bottles when my bottles won't fit under the tap. It has a has a heavy duty zipper bag top, but I've never used it as I don't want to tempt fate. I don't remember it being as expensive as it is now. The regular Platy 2L bottles are difficult to fill in a small sink, and in my experience they aren't as durable.
https://www.platy.com/ca/bottles/pla...ater-tank.html

I'm using it more than I normally would this year as I've been avoiding any mid-ride stops at businesses.
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Old 06-24-20, 07:05 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Yeah it sucks but what sucks more is spreading COVID-19 even more than we have already chosen to do.

Find new routes, what I have been doing lately is going on routes with some minor similarity and veer off onto some side streets or go in a different direction and maybe get a little lost to the point I can find my way back easily and won't get trapped but have something new and different. It ain't much but it is something.

This is just a super tough time and we have to except that till it is over and if we do our best we can move forward more quickly.

Yeah, I posted on another thread that the current strictures have reintroduced me to the fun of "lets see where this road goes" instead of laying out a clear route to a particular destination. I've eliminated the need for almost all my stops, and really only need one on very hot days to get water.
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Old 06-24-20, 08:29 AM
  #80  
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My newest bike has a custom-built frame. I'm glad I paid $50 extra to have a third set of water bottle mounts on the underside of the downtube. Three 750ml bottles will get me through 80 miles if it's not too hot...And if it's hot outside, I plan my route around outdoor taps (churches are a good option, I've found).
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Old 06-24-20, 08:43 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
(churches are a good option, I've found).
Does holy water have more electrolytes?
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Old 06-24-20, 09:07 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
Does holy water have more electrolytes?
Depends on the church. Some of them have lots of iron (as oxide) in the pipes.

The nice thing about country churches is you've got about a 30% chance of there being a spigot on the outside with the handle still on.
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Old 06-24-20, 09:10 AM
  #83  
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I use a small frame bag. 24 oz gatoradeand a 24 + 36 oz water. Almost all public/commercial buildings have an outdoor faucet. Cemeteries too.
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Old 06-24-20, 09:29 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Indyracer View Post
Convenience store to buy a bottle or two of water. Masks are useless.
This is stupid. And selfish comment. Useless? the science is clear this helps reduce transmission. Even a cloth mask prevents large water droplets form coughing/sneezing from traveling as far, or hanging in the air as long.

JAG
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Old 06-24-20, 09:42 AM
  #85  
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I have a 3l CamelBak for long trips. If I don't want to spend time cleaning out the tubes, I carry squeeze bottles in my panniers. You don't need to always have all your bottles stuck on your frame. You could also use handlebar or triangle frame bags. You can find cheap ones under $20. When one bottle runs out, simply stop the bike and switch the bottle with another one from the bag.

If you're taking off the mask, stuffing it in your bag or pocket, and then wearing it again within the same day, the outside surface is rubbing on many other surfaces that you'll eventually touch with your hands. It's better to keep it on all the time until you're ready to completely take it off for the rest of the day and then leave it in a rolled up paper bag. CDC guidelines at least what I read many months ago was to wait 5 days before reusing the mask if not performing some other disinfection. Doing nothing but waiting is probably less destructive than using chemical disinfectant on the mask. So a person who has to go out 5 days a week would probably rotate between 5 different masks, one for each day.

In the country I'm currently in, no one would wear a mask unless the government told the people to. So I decided on my own to buy certified respirators. When it eventually became required to wear a covering everywhere in close proximity to people, not even uncertified masks were available anywhere so people were using scarves at first.

Regarding mask on a bike, I have to sometimes ride my bike for 1 hour at a time on narrow bike paths where people are also walking. It's not required to wear masks when outdoor if you can maintain 1.5 meters but passing walking people is under 1 meter. I also have to stop in places along the way so I keep the respirator on during the entire hour without drinking water. There was a study in a wind tunnel that showed cycling required several times greater than 1.5 meter separation to maintain the same arosol exposure since you're riding into the breath of the rider in front of you.

I have a reusable respirator with an exhaust valve otherwise it gets too uncomfortable and impractical while cycling. With the exhaust and a p2 filter it's actually easy and cool enough to breath through, especially with the one way flow valves. P3 is more difficult to breathe.

If I have to ride longer than 2 hours while stopping to go into places, I would temporary remove the respirator to drink water from the bottle. But using the proper way of removing it, which is to lift with the strap from the back and not touching the front surface.

In the current country, the active cases dropped drastically from around 150000 down to 5000 after lockdown and mandatory coverings. People are starting to ignore social distancing and covering rules after lockdown has been removed so the rate has slightly increased.

Also there is a big difference between certified respirators and masks that don't seal. Locally most people only have masks because respirators are still rare. Masks are not as effective as respirators, while respirators will drastically reduce your risk if worn properly.

If I'm going out and know that I'm not going near people and taking the roads with the least foot traffic, like to the post drop off depot, then I won't wear the respirator.

Last edited by tomtomtom123; 06-24-20 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 06-24-20, 10:21 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
Does holy water have more electrolytes?
I went out on a regular route this past Sunday morning, planning to stop and refill bottles at a church along the way...It has a pump handle with a tap near an outdoor seating area. As I came up the road, I saw that they were actually holding their Sunday service in that area, so I couldn't really refill my bottles without interrupting their service. The nerve of those people.
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Old 06-24-20, 12:21 PM
  #87  
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My dentist is a fairly distinguished guy. For example he wrote the American Dental Association protocols on how to manage dental care for patients with HIV/AIDS. He has designed several items of PPE in wide use. Since the covid began he regularly sees patients who want to lecture him on PPE and how he is doing it all wrong. He is near retirement and has no problem inviting these jokers to leave his office.

It should be crystal clear that only a handful of outliers amongst the general public are going to use PPE correctly. By standards of this thread basically no one is going to get it right. Only the critic writing the comment has it right.

Using a mask for any period of time will make the wearer hypoxic and hypercapnic. Nose, throat, sinuses, lungs start turning to soup. In periods of active contagion it makes some sense to wear the mask anyway. When the risk is low or nonexistent the mask should be removed. My judgment and your judgment about when the risk is low are never going to coincide. Proctors who take delight in being hypercompliant are the last people anyone is going to listen to.
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Old 06-24-20, 12:53 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
My dentist is a fairly distinguished guy. For example he wrote the American Dental Association protocols on how to manage dental care for patients with HIV/AIDS. He has designed several items of PPE in wide use. Since the covid began he regularly sees patients who want to lecture him on PPE and how he is doing it all wrong. He is near retirement and has no problem inviting these jokers to leave his office.

It should be crystal clear that only a handful of outliers amongst the general public are going to use PPE correctly. By standards of this thread basically no one is going to get it right. Only the critic writing the comment has it right.

Using a mask for any period of time will make the wearer hypoxic and hypercapnic. Nose, throat, sinuses, lungs start turning to soup. In periods of active contagion it makes some sense to wear the mask anyway. When the risk is low or nonexistent the mask should be removed. My judgment and your judgment about when the risk is low are never going to coincide. Proctors who take delight in being hypercompliant are the last people anyone is going to listen to.
So the dentist you go to makes you an expert?

Just saying, you.do whatever you think is right.

Last edited by GlennR; 06-24-20 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 06-24-20, 02:08 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
My dentist is a fairly distinguished guy. For example he wrote the American Dental Association protocols on how to manage dental care for patients with HIV/AIDS. He has designed several items of PPE in wide use. Since the covid began he regularly sees patients who want to lecture him on PPE and how he is doing it all wrong. He is near retirement and has no problem inviting these jokers to leave his office.

It should be crystal clear that only a handful of outliers amongst the general public are going to use PPE correctly. By standards of this thread basically no one is going to get it right. Only the critic writing the comment has it right.

Using a mask for any period of time will make the wearer hypoxic and hypercapnic. Nose, throat, sinuses, lungs start turning to soup. In periods of active contagion it makes some sense to wear the mask anyway. When the risk is low or nonexistent the mask should be removed. My judgment and your judgment about when the risk is low are never going to coincide. Proctors who take delight in being hypercompliant are the last people anyone is going to listen to.
So I can skip the soup I was going to have for dinner and instead eat my heart out?
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Old 06-24-20, 03:26 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
My dentist is a fairly distinguished guy. For example he wrote the American Dental Association protocols on how to manage dental care for patients with HIV/AIDS. He has designed several items of PPE in wide use. Since the covid began he regularly sees patients who want to lecture him on PPE and how he is doing it all wrong. He is near retirement and has no problem inviting these jokers to leave his office.

It should be crystal clear that only a handful of outliers amongst the general public are going to use PPE correctly. By standards of this thread basically no one is going to get it right. Only the critic writing the comment has it right.

Using a mask for any period of time will make the wearer hypoxic and hypercapnic. Nose, throat, sinuses, lungs start turning to soup. In periods of active contagion it makes some sense to wear the mask anyway. When the risk is low or nonexistent the mask should be removed. My judgment and your judgment about when the risk is low are never going to coincide. Proctors who take delight in being hypercompliant are the last people anyone is going to listen to.
Before pontificating about a subject your dentist told you about once during a cleaning, maybe you actually take the time to understand what you're talking about.

Nobody is suggesting using a mask for long periods of time. The discussion is about masks usage in stores, specifically when filling-up water.

Also, the consensus amongst medical professionals around the world is that masks in public places reduces the spread of covid, and data supports that recommendation.

The government only had to get involved because of certain entitled individuals who didn't wish to follow CDC guidelines. The Karens and Chads of this word, essentially.

Japan is a good example of what happens when people follow the rules (scary, I know). They're currently at 955 deaths with a population of 126.5 MILLION.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...t-coronavirus/


​​​​​

​​​​​​
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Old 06-24-20, 09:38 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
My dentist is a fairly distinguished guy. For example he wrote the American Dental Association protocols on how to manage dental care for patients with HIV/AIDS. He has designed several items of PPE in wide use. Since the covid began he regularly sees patients who want to lecture him on PPE and how he is doing it all wrong. He is near retirement and has no problem inviting these jokers to leave his office.

It should be crystal clear that only a handful of outliers amongst the general public are going to use PPE correctly. By standards of this thread basically no one is going to get it right. Only the critic writing the comment has it right.

Using a mask for any period of time will make the wearer hypoxic and hypercapnic. Nose, throat, sinuses, lungs start turning to soup. In periods of active contagion it makes some sense to wear the mask anyway. When the risk is low or nonexistent the mask should be removed. My judgment and your judgment about when the risk is low are never going to coincide. Proctors who take delight in being hypercompliant are the last people anyone is going to listen to.
My dentist could beat up your dentist.

OK to be fair, he is a really nice guy and probably wouldn't beat your dentist up but he could.

The lady who runs one of my favorite Indian restaurants mentioned where she was from in India and right then and there I understood the entire India/Pakistan conflict and every last nuance and I can say with complete certainty that you like me are full of fecal matter.

Also what kind of soup? Like a miso soup or is it more of a bisque or chowder because corn chowder is pretty good! I would also take tomato soup or pho is pretty damn good as well.
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Old 06-24-20, 10:28 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 View Post
I have a 3l CamelBak for long trips.
Maybe I should go there... what I found is that 2 liters of water on my back in bottles causes a friction burn as the pack sloshes side to side (so I'm trying to stay with mostly the frame bottles this year), but maybe a camelback would less.

If you're taking off the mask, stuffing it in your bag or pocket, and then wearing it again within the same day, the outside surface is rubbing on many other surfaces that you'll eventually touch with your hands.
That's precisely why I'm budgeting a mask per stop. Started in on making more this evening, realized that I got more bias tape on my last trip but I'm out of thread and hand sewing needles to finish how the removable nose wire channel meets the outside...

I have a reusable respirator with an exhaust valve otherwise it gets too uncomfortable and impractical while cycling.
The problem with a respirator with an exhaust valve is that it has effectively the opposite role of the social-responsibility mask. With a p100 cartridge you might actually be protecting yourself. But with an exhaust valve, you aren't protecting others from yourself. Nor will their lower grade masks really protect them from anything you might exhale. I have one of these too, but when I used it for shopping I blocked the exhale valve and removed the inhale valves; downside of that is that with the one way valves on the filter ports removed in order to exhale through the filters, you have to be far more careful handling it when removed to not get contamination into the clean side of the filters. I have considered trying to make some sort of fabric filter for the exhale port to be as fair to others as a fabric mask, while offering actual personal protection...
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Old 06-24-20, 10:44 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
planning to stop and refill bottles at a church along the way...It has a pump handle with a tap
It happens that this strikes to the heart of it.

The epidemiological approach to public health in many ways got its start on September 8, 1854 when a Dr. John Snow (who might have known nothing but was doing a bang up job of figuring it out from the evidence) removed the pump handle from a particular London well at the center of a Cholera cluster.

Only today, we're removing the pump handle "out of an abundance of caution" without thinking of the alternative

Specifically the alternative of using grimy fingers to put a dubious mask on a sweaty face, going into the shared indoor space of a store, and purchasing a single use jug.

How much we have learned... and how much we haven't.

Yes... I've been doing local rides, really having a grand time exploring country roads all over.. But I've been doing so many rides this year, surpassing last year's total miles before the end of April, that attempting some centuries is pretty much inevitable. And since simply getting in and out my door requires a mask anyway, a long ride has really no more risk per mile than a short one.

It's just freaking absurd that there's no way to refill water that doesn't require improvised biohazard gear and throwing away a plastic jug.

I get it, trail bathrooms are a hard problem. But water is something that we as a society should be able to figure out.

Last edited by UniChris; 06-24-20 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 06-25-20, 12:39 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Indyracer View Post
Convenience store to buy a bottle or two of water. Masks are useless.
They aren't useless. Masks are great at stopping an asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic person from spreading the virus (or any virus spread through body fluids like saliva and mucus).
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Old 06-25-20, 12:52 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by UniChris View Post



The problem with a respirator with an exhaust valve is that it has effectively the opposite role of the social-responsibility mask. With a p100 cartridge you might actually be protecting yourself. But with an exhaust valve, you aren't protecting others from yourself. Nor will their lower grade masks really protect them from anything you might exhale. I have one of these too, but when I used it for shopping I blocked the exhale valve and removed the inhale valves; downside of that is that with the one way valves on the filter ports removed in order to exhale through the filters, you have to be far more careful handling it when removed to not get contamination into the clean side of the filters. I have considered trying to make some sort of fabric filter for the exhale port to be as fair to others as a fabric mask, while offering actual personal protection...
Yes I know that an unfiltered exhale is not filtered. But I'm saying that it's impractical to wear a respirator without an exhalation valve while riding a bike for 2 hours in 28C temperatures. The exhalation valve and one way valves keeps it cool enough. You have to consider, let's say theoretically, perhaps a respirator that I wear all the time when I'm near other people has a 1% chance of infecting me while a 99% chance of infecting others, and an unsealed and uncertified mask that other people generally wear maybe has 50% chance of infecting themselves and 50% chance of infecting others. If I'm wearing a respirator with an exhalation valve every time I go to a higher risk location, I have much less chance of getting infected and spreading it to others than other people who only wear an unsealed mask. If I'm just walking to the store 5 minutes away, I use a disposable respirator (which I reuse) and tape up the exhalation valve. But on a bicycle it's not practical.
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Old 06-25-20, 03:05 AM
  #96  
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Quite amazing how many different things I didn’t say you guys can come up with. You’re all just looking for anything to be offended by and then lashing out. You’d make good cops and enforcers.

Just another thread where nothing is allowed but backslapping and self congratulation. Carry on.
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Old 06-25-20, 05:48 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Quite amazing how many different things I didn’t say you guys can come up with. You’re all just looking for anything to be offended by and then lashing out. You’d make good cops and enforcers.

Just another thread where nothing is allowed but backslapping and self congratulation. Carry on.
This is not an airport. There is no need to announce your departure.
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Old 06-25-20, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 View Post
But I'm saying that it's impractical to wear a respirator without an exhalation valve while riding a bike for 2 hours in 28C temperatures.
Sorry, I was talking about indoors and hadn't realized you were meaning outside, the vent is likely less of an issue there.

A big problem with any mask during riding is exhaled moisture (and for ones that don't have a rubber facepiece, head sweat), and that's probably going to limit hot weather riding duration.

I have thinner and thicker fabric masks - I'll wear the thicker in a store if I've driven or walked slowly there, it's the thinner ones I could ride in. For me the limitation with those (at about the same temperature you mentioned) is not that I can't continue riding in them, but simply that they get soaked and stop passing any air - until they saturate I just have to be careful to pace myself on climbs.

So I do rides on the busy local trail segment in a mask, but for a distance ride that's mostly well distanced from others, I'm only planning to wear one at the stops.

That still means I've budgeted 7 or 8. I'll probably not encounter anyone heading out the door or out of town in the 5am range, but one per stop at the ~20 mile opportunities including the end is five, and two for unplanned emergencies. So I need to get more thread, put elastics on #5 and #6 and then make two more.

Last edited by UniChris; 06-25-20 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 06-25-20, 10:57 AM
  #99  
Pop N Wood
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Good Lord, do you always go so over the top on everything? Do you honestly think all of this is necessary?
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Old 06-25-20, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post
Good Lord, do you always go so over the top on everything? Do you honestly think all of this is necessary?
It's pretty simple, really
  1. Water is necessary
  2. Haven't found any way to get it but buying jugs in a store - fountains were already uncertain, but inquiries have determined they are turned off
  3. Entering a store in any state I'm likely to ride in currently legally requires a mask
  4. Masks get sweaty very quickly and there's no way to store them for re-use without washing and drying (even forget about safety, think simple "ick")
  5. So need a fresh mask for each stop
  6. And also spares for anything else, like giving or receiving help with a mechanical or injury
So yes, in total it feels absurd, but I can't find the gap in reasoning which gives an alternative - the only thing that's really even a personal choice is to either not ride, or put a sweaty mask back on after stuffing it in a baggie or wearing it around your neck, and I'm not going there.

And it holds even for riding in my neighborhood, reduced only by ride length - eg, without any planned stops I could take 3 instead of 8. (I had been taking just two but that's been cutting it too close with sweat-through)

Last edited by UniChris; 06-25-20 at 01:18 PM.
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