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Velocity A23 OC rim tape question

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Velocity A23 OC rim tape question

Old 06-22-20, 11:09 AM
  #1  
MnHPVA Guy
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Velocity A23 OC rim tape question

I am getting ready to build my 1st wheel using the Velocity A23 OC rim, and I see that the spoke holes on the inside are offset into the bead seat. Lots of sharp edges to cut a tube. What have people used for rim tape with the offset A23 to protect the tube?

Iím using a DA hub and DT Competition on the drive side and DT Revolution on the NDS. Should be a sweet setup if I can keep air in the tube.

I thought about adding a photo to show the problem. But then I realized that anyone who has used this rim knows exactly what Iím talking about.
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Old 06-22-20, 03:52 PM
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Only use thin tubeless tape or tire mounting will be beyond painful. The Velocity velotape is fine stuff, Stan's would also work fine. You can err on the wide side for coverage.
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Old 06-22-20, 04:17 PM
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I use DT Swiss 19mm tubeless tape on my OC A23 rim. I think there's probably less expensive options, but that's what I found locally the day I needed it. I can't remember if I went once or twice around.

I wanted to use Veloplugs since, for some reason, I have a bunch on hand. But, IIRC, they wouldn't work on the OC rim.
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Old 06-23-20, 10:23 PM
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Thanks guys.

I picked up some 21mm Stans. I also used a Cratex point in a Dremel to dull the edges of the holes. Iím old school, so Iíve always assumed you couldnít have tape on the bead seat ďshelfĒ, or whatever that part of the rim is called.
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Old 06-24-20, 07:58 AM
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Use two wraps of 3/4" (19mm) 1 mil Kapton tape totaling 0.005". That's half the thickness of Stans or thin rim tapes, and a quarter of Velox, It also gives you more room to work with than veloplugs.
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Old 06-24-20, 09:36 AM
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If you haven't started yet, you might be able to take a round stone in a drill or Dremel and just lightly touch all the spoke holes to smooth the edges off. Be sure to vacuum all the dust out after that.
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Old 06-24-20, 10:30 AM
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Velox tape is the best I've used.
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Old 06-24-20, 10:40 AM
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You can customize the width of Velox tape. Did it just the other day. Needed to re-tape a Velocity Aero rim. Only had 10mm (skinny!) and 17mm on hand. Took the roll of 17mm, marked it all around at 13mm put it in the bench vise, got my best kitchen knife and sharpened it to shave sharp. Then I simply sawed into the roll, rotating it as needed. I got a perfect 13mm tape that laid in beautifully.

Ben
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Old 06-24-20, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by davidad View Post
Velox tape is the best I've used.
Except when it breaks tire levers where the thinnest tapes allow hand mounting.

Some of the Velocity rims including the A23 are notoriously tight.

https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q...ocity-a23-rims
"Had the same issues. Couldn't mount a tire, got blisters trying. Was ready to send them back & eat the return shipping & restock fee. Found a Video on you tube on how to mount the A23. Changed rim tape from velox to a synthetic type. Followed the advice. Tires just slid right on with no effort after changing tape. Under 3 minutes. Tires were Schwallbe Durano Kevlar bead, with Ritchey Rim liners & generic tubes."
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Old 06-24-20, 03:34 PM
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this might be offtopic but i'd still throw in as many people are ignorant of (differences in) rim compression... which is neither zero nor the only factor (it's possibly the least contributing factor) on it's own but it still matters as it's added or subtracted to the other two things: differences in rims and tires which could have a larger contribution.

so because there are differences in all these things you may find out that you need a thinner or a thicker rim tape.

i would say this: if the (suppose you measure the same spoke) spoke tension is the same with the tire unmounted and with the tire mounted and deflated after being inflated and deflated therefore seated on the rim, then this could mean the rim tape is too thin and you might have problems with the tire not keeping true (impossible to get to seat properly and will have some minor wobble that would be moved from one portion of the wheel to another portion but never completely fixed) on a wheel that's otherwise perfectly true, ghost punctures due to dirt getting inside the tire too easily, and/or the tube being pulled by the tire that is not kept always stable on the rim.

i'd rather put two layers of rim tape, one hard layer that's meant to prevent the softer layer from being pushed through the holes.

there's one more thing to take notice of: velocity rims are known for being compatible with a marketed product of theirs called veloplugs. beware that other rims do not go well with these "veloplugs". they're marketed to be a lightweight solution but again... you may find out that you could use them and also add some kind of final rim tape.

the advantage of a butyl layer is that while compressible you can mount the tire more easily and still keep the tire snug fit on the rim, with no space left in between for things to go wrong.

what i have used with my heavy direct drive rear motor hub e-bike was i added this second butyl layer made into one single piece with no overlap, cut carefully from a 26" inner tube - the rim being a 622mm - for a 29" wheel. you don't need to sacrifice an intact inner tube if you choose to use a cut tube for this butyl layer on top of whatever tape might be insuficient for your needs. you may even find out that the total thickness does not require a cut portion of a butyl tube, not even from a lightweight one. some people are offended to hear of some grams added by this butyl layer, i picked this solution to be sure i avoid any kind of trouble as getting the wheel off the bike and fixing it is quite out of the question on the road and the nuts on the hub axle need to be tightened to a certain measured value (because the frame has to be pressed very hard on the hub to deal with the hub torque but not too much as to not damage the threads) etc. so, IF i ever get a puncture i cannot fix it anywhere but getting the bike home, the bike is heavy to walk it deflated on whatever distance etc.

i'd say rims have a minimum of about 0.35mm reduction in radius from spoke tension and it can get to 0.5mm. so there is a difference, even if small.

rim compression can be computed from this data:
1) the section of the rim: ~90 square millimetres of aluminum material. that's for a 622mm 470g rim aluminum having 2.7g/ccm density;
2) the radial component of spoke tension (isolate the x,y,z component of the vector) and ultimately dividing the total spoke tension (from all spokes) by 3.14 and for a 32 spoke wheel you could have say 1000kgf of CIRCUMFERENTIAL compression stress. and even the tire pressure adds a bit more to all this compression stress of the rim, depending on the size of the tire and rim as well.

the Young modulus of aluminum is about 72GPa in compression so you get the stress of the rim divided by this modulus and you get the rim compression
stress of the rim is 9800N/90sqmm=108.9MPa;
and if the rim would have a radius of 300mm:
108.9/72000*300=0.45mm rim compression due to a 0,0015125 compression factor:
108.9/72000=0,0015125

so... if you have a very true (0.1mm total VERTICAL runout) wheel build that has a maximum of 150Kgf drive side tension but with 140kgf average tension (small tension variance) instead of a maximum 120kgf with high spoke tension variance (poor build) and an average of 108kgf then this contribute to a and a it may contribute to some extent - even if only about 0.1mm - besides the other factors mentioned - tires and rims not being all the same. you may find that one tire is more easily mounted than a different brand on the same wheel or a rim having a different final bead diameter for the same spoke tension than another rim brand etc. not to say you could measure these by themselves but there are differences that add up so usually the best rim tape thickness is a thing to be found out by trial and error. my take is to have a rim tape that gets a very slight drop (5-10%) in spoke tension with the tire mounted on the rim bead and the tire deflated.

rims can be perfectly round out of the box... or not. almost all have some radial runout which should be sought to be corrected by plastic deformation. the goal is uniform spoke tension with a very low runout. there are techniques that involve getting the spoke tension to very high values in order to bend the rim back into shape - this is included in the general term of <<stress relieving>> when done right. but it's very tricky if you use thin spokes because of the torsional stress when tightening the nipples.
usually with thick (plain 2mm gauge or 2mm-2.3mm spokes like Alpines) you go with higher overall tension and the wheel will be able to take higher loads before the spoke tension is unloaded to zero. thin spokes have the weight advantage but the wheel will be designed for a lower maximum possible load. spoke at 4:30 and 7:30 position go under higher tensions when spokes at ~6:00 is gradually unloaded. the goal is to have a high enough value for the 6:00 spoke that it does not go to zero for the maximum possible load of the wheel. this is one more factor for differences in rim compression from spoke tension differences between wheels.

that being said, in your case you need not reach very high tension values as DT Comp and DT Revolution would work out alright with an average of 115kgf DS tension because there's no point in high tension when the maximum load the wheel could be optimized to take would still not have the NDS spoke unloaded to zero. if the minimum NDS tension is 75kgf and you are not a clyde the wheel can be alright.

i'd rather have a bit more total runout than 0.1mm if i can't achieve otherwise safe high tension meaning low spoke tension variance.

Last edited by adipe; 06-24-20 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 06-24-20, 08:32 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
Except when it breaks tire levers where the thinnest tapes allow hand mounting.

Some of the Velocity rims including the A23 are notoriously tight.

https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q...ocity-a23-rims
"Had the same issues. Couldn't mount a tire, got blisters trying. Was ready to send them back & eat the return shipping & restock fee. Found a Video on you tube on how to mount the A23. Changed rim tape from velox to a synthetic type. Followed the advice. Tires just slid right on with no effort after changing tape. Under 3 minutes. Tires were Schwallbe Durano Kevlar bead, with Ritchey Rim liners & generic tubes."
Get a better tire mounting tool. https://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.c...&item_id=KS-TJ
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Old 06-24-20, 09:13 PM
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adipe
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tire mounting technique:

https://www.bikeforums.net/21551945-post28.html
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