Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Is There A Reason That Mountain & Bike Handlebar Diameters Are Different?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Is There A Reason That Mountain & Bike Handlebar Diameters Are Different?

Old 07-07-20, 04:16 AM
  #26  
Trakhak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 2,678
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 871 Post(s)
Liked 612 Times in 363 Posts
Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
... unless you've got an old Schwinn cruiser.
I was joking. There are at least 10 non-interchangeable 26" tire sizes; e.g., 26 x 1.75 and 26 x 1 3/4 are not interchangeable.
Trakhak is offline  
Likes For Trakhak:
Old 07-07-20, 07:15 AM
  #27  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 24,003

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, an orange one and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4114 Post(s)
Liked 1,604 Times in 980 Posts
Originally Posted by cango View Post
I understand the lack of compatibility between brands, brake pull, etc... but that being said I have seen brifters on flat bar bikes. I have also seen mountain style brake levers on the flat portion of road bars in addition to the brifters. How they got this to work, I don't know.
Interrupter brakes are different from mountain bike levers. They may look like mountain bike levers but they function differently. The pull ratio is for a short pull brake rather than a long pull brake that is most common on mountain bikes. They split the brake cable housing and work by pushing on the housing during braking. Mountain and road levers pull on the inner cable while keeping the housing still.

I saw a video recently on Youtube where a bike mechanic explained that very thing - people want to turn their road bikes into gravel bikes but they can't because there is not enough room to fit the tires. There is just no room for anything but the skinny road racing tires.
Different issue.

I thought thats kind of dumb as well, it limits the versatility of the bike. I have an old Trek 750 Multitrack and it as 32mm tires but can take all the way up to something like 45 or something crazy. It has tons of room.
Versatility is nice but specialization has itís place. A road bike is generally built for going fast on smooth surfaces. A mountain bike is built for going fast on very unsmooth surfaces. Put one on the otherís surface and it doesnít do what it is designed to do very well...particularly the fast part but neither is all that comfortable to ride on the otherís surface. Trying to make a bike that is versatile enough to ride on pavement and on rocks ends up with a bike that is frustrating to ride on both. It wonít go that fast on the road and it doesnít handle technical terrain all that well. Its versatility is not limited but its function is.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 07-07-20, 07:17 AM
  #28  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 24,003

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, an orange one and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4114 Post(s)
Liked 1,604 Times in 980 Posts
Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
No, you're wrong again. I even provided a link in my previous reply. Shimano road and MTB is compatible - Di2. Read, or watch the linked video here once again:

https://www.cxmagazine.com/mechanica...train-shifters



Thank you for admitting that your claim is only based on your limited experience working at a co-op. The reality is that the market is much different than you describe it.



Yeah, you're missing the point. You don't need mountain shifters to actuate mountain derailleurs with Di2 or AXS. They can work with road shifters...
Thank you, Captain Esoteric. Shall we talk of angels and pinheads now?
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 07-07-20, 07:21 AM
  #29  
walnutz
Senior Member
 
walnutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ATX
Posts: 604

Bikes: CO-OP ADV 3.1 aka Beeftank, All-City Super Professional aka Bulldozer

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
You know what else annoys me? They made it so that I can't move my mountain bike wheels and tires over to my road bike. There is no reason extra room can't be built into road frames.
I know youíre being tongue-in-cheek, but you can do this now


walnutz is offline  
Likes For walnutz:
Old 07-07-20, 07:21 AM
  #30  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 29,856
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13093 Post(s)
Liked 5,575 Times in 2,866 Posts
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-07-20, 07:52 AM
  #31  
walnutz
Senior Member
 
walnutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ATX
Posts: 604

Bikes: CO-OP ADV 3.1 aka Beeftank, All-City Super Professional aka Bulldozer

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
crud, did I miss something?
walnutz is offline  
Old 07-07-20, 08:28 AM
  #32  
smashndash
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,208

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 726 Post(s)
Liked 256 Times in 180 Posts
Originally Posted by curbtender View Post
From what I understand is that 31.8 became standard with the need for stronger bars in mountain biking. Road bars followed to take advantage of the carbon bars coming out?
This seems to be a pattern. Disc brakes, tubeless, wide rims, wide tires, 650b, 1x, 31.8 bars and thru-axles have all been lifted from MTB.

I can almost guarantee you that within 5 years, we will see 1.5Ē steerers, 110/148 boost spacing and 35mm handlebars on gravel/road bikes.

I still donít understand why anyone would expect road bars and mtb bars to have the same diameter, for all the reasons stated by others. What is the use case?
smashndash is offline  
Old 07-07-20, 08:33 AM
  #33  
smashndash
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,208

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 726 Post(s)
Liked 256 Times in 180 Posts
Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post

However, we can keep discussing how modern mountain and road shift and brake levers are compatible with the drivetrain and brake components, if you're still interested in learning more about that.
I donít see how this is relevant to the thread. The thread is discussing using road shifters/brake levers on flat bars and trigger shifters on drop bars, which I have never seen done before.
smashndash is offline  
Likes For smashndash:
Old 07-07-20, 09:03 AM
  #34  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 24,003

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, an orange one and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4114 Post(s)
Liked 1,604 Times in 980 Posts
Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
I donít see how this is relevant to the thread. The thread is discussing using road shifters/brake levers on flat bars and trigger shifters on drop bars, which I have never seen done before.
I have seen it but it doesnít work all that well. The flat part of a road bar is generally too small for the length of even a small set of mountain bike brake levers to fit...the barrel adjusters run into each other, much less put a set of shifters in there too. There are several other issues as well. You canít brake from the drops nor is there anything to hold onto on the hoods so you are even more limited in hand positions than with flat bars. The brake levers are also very, very close together which would cause the rider to ride with squeezed in arms and, likely, hunched back. Not terribly comfortable.

Road brake levers work a bit better on flat bars but the brake routing is funky. If you are trying to use aero levers, the brake cable makes a very tight turn at the bar (or just flaps around to catch on everything. You could use a integrated shifter but, again, the cable routing is funky.

Generally, shift and brake components work best on the bars they were designed for.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 07-07-20, 09:26 AM
  #35  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 24,003

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, an orange one and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4114 Post(s)
Liked 1,604 Times in 980 Posts
Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
Sorry, not interested.

However, we can keep discussing how modern mountain and road shift and brake levers are compatible with the drivetrain and brake components, if you're still interested in learning more about that.

The same goes for SRAM vs. Shimano market share and how one guy's opinion based on his alleged co-op experience is at odds with the true numbers.

Just let me know.
People are constantly questioning my co-op experience. How many bikes have you worked on in the last 10 years? I do one 7 hour shift per week and have for nearly every week since about 2010. My shift is the Saturday shift which is the busiest and for the entire 7 hours, all 6 stands in the work shop are full. We limit the amount of time that people can work on their bikes to 90 minutes. That’s about 30 bikes per day or, roughly, 1500 bikes per year. I have worked on 15,000 bikes in 10 years. You won’t find paid shop mechanic who has worked on that many bikes in a similar period. They aren’t working on 6 bikes at once.

Now granted, most of the bikes we see are older bikes but not all of them are. We see a fair number of newer bikes as well. The vast majority of new bikes are Shimano equipped. Maybe that will change as SRAM grows but that’s the future. I’m talking about past equipment.

I also don’t live in a vacuum. I know the market and check out new bikes on a very regular basis. SRAM is making inroads into Shimano’s market share (50% of the total market) on the high end but Shimano still has most of the market. SRAM has about 35% of the market. I don’t say this with glee. I have bikes with both Shimano and SRAM. I have bikes that are completely Shimano free (it wasn’t that easy to do when I did it). I’d like to see SRAM gain more of the market just to have some innovation. Shimano is kind of stodgy and don’t generally make components cross compatible.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 07-07-20, 10:38 AM
  #36  
Leinster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: location location
Posts: 2,783

Bikes: MBK Super Mirage 1991, CAAD10, Yuba Mundo Lux, and a Cannondale Criterium Single Speed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked 179 Times in 129 Posts
Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
Thanks for correcting your erroneous "SRAM's market share is "fairly small." bit.
But the part of the market where SRAM road and MTB groups are compatible (ie electronic shifting) is tiny, and you haven't acknowledged that, at all.
Leinster is offline  
Old 07-07-20, 10:39 AM
  #37  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,290

Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1166 Post(s)
Liked 732 Times in 509 Posts
Originally Posted by cango View Post
Not sure if you are making fun of me or not but thats ok . My post seems to have drawn the ire of many. Oh well as they say.

I understand the lack of compatibility between brands, brake pull, etc... but that being said I have seen brifters on flat bar bikes. I have also seen mountain style brake levers on the flat portion of road bars in addition to the brifters. How they got this to work, I don't know.

I saw a video recently on Youtube where a bike mechanic explained that very thing - people want to turn their road bikes into gravel bikes but they can't because there is not enough room to fit the tires. There is just no room for anything but the skinny road racing tires.

I thought thats kind of dumb as well, it limits the versatility of the bike. I have an old Trek 750 Multitrack and it as 32mm tires but can take all the way up to something like 45 or something crazy. It has tons of room.
If a road bike won't take a wide tire then it's probably a dedicated road bike not designed for much more than fast riding on paved surfaces. It's like complaining because you can't put SUV tires on your Ferarri or Lambourghini.

Cheers
Miele Man is offline  
Old 07-07-20, 10:47 AM
  #38  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,290

Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1166 Post(s)
Liked 732 Times in 509 Posts
Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
No, you're wrong again. I even provided a link in my previous reply. Shimano road and MTB is compatible - Di2. Read, or watch the linked video here once again:

https://www.cxmagazine.com/mechanica...train-shifters



Thank you for admitting that your claim is only based on your limited experience working at a co-op. The reality is that the market is much different than you describe it.



Yeah, you're missing the point. You don't need mountain shifters to actuate mountain derailleurs with Di2 or AXS. They can work with road shifters...
Seems like they're only compatible with a lot of tinkering and the use of a special battery and a software change.

Cheers
Miele Man is offline  
Old 07-07-20, 01:49 PM
  #39  
Phil_gretz
Journeyman Bike Commuter
 
Phil_gretz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 6,571

Bikes: '71 Jeunet 640, '79 Peugeot PXN10LE, '88 Fuji Saratoga, '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '16 Motobecane Gran Premio Elite, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1276 Post(s)
Liked 1,139 Times in 612 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
What parts do you think can be moved between road and mountain bikes?
Revo-Shift grip shifters, of course...
Phil_gretz is offline  
Old 07-07-20, 02:38 PM
  #40  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,290

Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1166 Post(s)
Liked 732 Times in 509 Posts
Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
That is false. Please go back and read the AXS link to learn why.

Cheers!
I did read it and that's where I saw what all was needed to make them compatible includuing the battery and the software upgrade.

Cheers
Miele Man is offline  
Old 07-07-20, 05:36 PM
  #41  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 24,003

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, an orange one and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4114 Post(s)
Liked 1,604 Times in 980 Posts
Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
Thanks for correcting your erroneous "SRAM's market share is "fairly small." bit.

To learn more about how SRAM has taken away significant market share from Shimano, you should study how SRAM was first to market with 1x in the MTB segment and has been eating Shimano's lunch on OEM specs (which helps drive significant repeat business, further strengthening market share).
You seem to be really quick to declare victory where it isn’t justified. SRAMs market share is 35% but they have a suspension division that is a very large part of the market share. Shimano owns half the market and doesn’t have a suspension division (thank goodness) so their market share of the component market is much, much larger. SRAM has cut into the component market but Shimano isn’t going to be on the ropes anytime soon. Assuming that half to two thirds of SRAM’s market share is suspension related, that leave 15 to 20% of the component market...giving Shimano 80 to 85% of the component market. And even that portion of the component market is mostly on the mountain bike side. SRAM’s portion of the road component market is diminishingly small.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
Nowhere in the AXS link is a battery or software upgrade mentioned. Because you don't need a compatible battery or a software upgrade to make it work, as you claim.

Here is the AXS link so you can read it:https://blog.3t.bike/2019/09/12028/g...s-drivetrains/

Again " they're only compatible with a lot of tinkering and the use of a special battery and a software change." is false.
You seem to be confusing two articles. The one that talks about Shimano clearly says

XTR Di2 Firmware Updates

Before you can think about mixing Shimano’s XTR Di2 MTB derailleurs with the company’s mechanical brake or hydraulic brake road Di2 shifters, some firmware needs to be updated using Shimano’s eTube software. Namely the battery, SM-BTR1 for external or SM-BTR2 for internal; they need to be on Version 3.0.10 – at the time of this article.

...



Known Incompatibilities
  • Road Di2 derailleurs and XTR Di2 derailleurs cannot be mixed and matched. For example, you cannot use a Di2 road front derailleur in conjunction an XTR Di2 rear derailleur – Shimano blocks this with the system firmware. Some people will claim it can be done, but we’ve yet to see a working example.
The blog.3t.bike link only mentioned Shimano in passing and not in very glowing terms.

but until now that meant mechanical shifting or a cobbled-together Di2 setup mixing road and MTB parts that Shimano doesn’t want you to mix. So every firmware update is a potential game-over for your shifting.
It might be easier with SRAM...good for them...but that has no bearing on what Shimano does.

And, by the way, just because you can show that one part of Shimano’s electronic systems force road and mountain systems to work together (barely), what about the rest of the Shimano line? Are you saying that just because one system works, the others will too? I’d love it if it were true but it’s not. Electronic shifting is an outlier that really proves nothing.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.

Last edited by cyccommute; 07-07-20 at 05:54 PM.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 07-08-20, 04:01 PM
  #42  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 24,003

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, an orange one and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4114 Post(s)
Liked 1,604 Times in 980 Posts
Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
Revo-Shift grip shifters, of course...
With a sweet, sweet Denali 2 piece handle bar? Cool!!!!
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 07-08-20, 04:18 PM
  #43  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 24,003

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, an orange one and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4114 Post(s)
Liked 1,604 Times in 980 Posts
Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
Again, thanks for continuing to correct your erroneous "SRAM's market share is "fairly small." bit.
15% of the component market is small by anyoneís measure.

[Nope, I pointed him to the AXS link, he read the Shimano link (which you're now quoting too - please pay attention), and I pointed him once again to the AXS link.

It's right there in black and white, if you care to spend the time to actually read the article. No battery or software changes needed for AXS to mix road/gravel/mtb.
Miele man quoted you and he was clearly talking about the CX magazine article which is about using Shimano parts. Directing him to another article on a different system doesnít negate what the CX magazine article said. For Shimano, a battery and software change is needed. It doesnít matter to the discussion of the Shimano system if SRAM system works together better.


You're moving the goal posts.
Just moving them back to where they were before you shot them into space.

Here is your false claim that I replied to:

"modern mountain and road shift and brake levers arenít compatible with the drivetrain and brake components."

To summarize:

A modern Shimano mountain and road shift systems and brake levers can be made compatible with the drivetrain and brake components with a lot of extra work and probably extra parts.
Let me fix that for you. Iíve admitted to being wrong about SRAM. But Shimano road and mountain systems donít work together with one esoteric exception that may fall apart at the next software upgrade. Cable actuated Shimano systems are incompatible between the different disciplines. And, as most people are going to be dealing with cable system, that is most relevant to the discussion.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.