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Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

Your Dream Rando Rig

Old 12-26-19, 08:23 AM
  #26  
Tourist in MSN
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Originally Posted by atwl77 View Post
You missed the point, it isn't about frequency or reliability. It's about what you can do if it fails. In my example above, several experienced people at the controle couldn't figure it out. A friend of mine recently had connection issues, messed around with the thing and eventually took the bike to the shop to get it rectified. I don't need this kind of stress during an ultra endurance ride. With a mechanical derailleur, all I need are spare cables (you bring them on 1000k and above, don't you?) and tools and I can fix 99% of any issue that comes up.
....
Last summer I volunteered to help staff a control. One rider phoned in, he had crashed, his bike was unable to shift into lower gears on a very hilly course. Rear cable operated derailleur was only shifting onto a few cogs. I drove back to meet him and we got his bike functioning with some prudent use of tools and cable adjustments. I did not want to try to straighten the hanger, if it broke he would DNF. I was sure that his derailleur would die on the ride, encouraged him to stop at a bike shop a few hundred yards off the route on the way to the next control and replace the rear derailleur. But, he was happy enough that his bike was functioning that he skipped the bike shop, finished the 600k on his mangled drive train.

Good thing it was a conventional cable operated system.
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Old 12-26-19, 08:25 AM
  #27  
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Good point about the hangar. I also carried a spare hangar during PBP.
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Old 12-26-19, 10:35 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by atwl77 View Post
You missed the point, it isn't about frequency or reliability. It's about what you can do if it fails. In my example above, several experienced people at the controle couldn't figure it out. A friend of mine recently had connection issues, messed around with the thing and eventually took the bike to the shop to get it rectified. I don't need this kind of stress during an ultra endurance ride. With a mechanical derailleur, all I need are spare cables (you bring them on 1000k and above, don't you?) and tools and I can fix 99% of any issue that comes up.

Likewise with tubeless. Sure they generally work. But on the rare occasion that they don't seal, I don't want to deal with putting a tube into a messy gunk-filled tire in the middle of an event, and also deal with mounting and unmounting tighter-than-usual tires in the process. And yes, a couple of people I have ridden with had exactly this problem - punctures that aren't sealing.
That's a valid point, but I think it's a bit more nuanced. If a Di2 system is less likely to malfunction (e.g., because there are no cables), then the ease of repair is less of an issue. And, for what it's worth, the last couple problems I've had with my mechanical drivetrains were not so easily repaired.

I also suspect that, as electronic drivetrains become more common, then more people will be knowledgeable enough to handle the occasional problem. But perhaps we're not there yet.
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Old 12-26-19, 10:51 AM
  #29  
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The thing about Di2 is that if you crash or otherwise damage one of the cables, it can be a fairly elaborate and expensive repair. I helped my lbs troubleshoot the aftermath of a crash on a Di2 system. I recall it was going to take $400 in cables to fix it, and the diagnostic software didn't pinpoint the issue very quickly. OTOH, I have seen any number of cable driven bikes that were modified into single speeds so the rider could complete their ride. Di2 failures among randonneurs that ride a lot seems to involve not charging the battery in time. Oftentimes the battery is hidden and you can't just swap another one in. It seems like etap wouldn't have this problem as much because you are constantly swapping out batteries. I wanted an etap system for my travel bike, but now they went to 12 speed and I see no reason for that. Maybe shimano will come out with wireless
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Old 12-26-19, 06:36 PM
  #30  
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I think if my dream rando rig had di2 i’d get it setup to charge the battery for the dyno. My 6700 mechanical shifters have over 25000km on them and are still going strong. Electronic does appeal to me since I found my hands were cramping up on PBP from all the shifting, but I hear the 11 speed stuff needs a lighter touch. I haven’t looked closely at a di2 derailleur but it can likely be rigged up to stay near the middle of the cassette.
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Old 12-26-19, 10:14 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
The thing about Di2 is that if you crash or otherwise damage one of the cables, it can be a fairly elaborate and expensive repair. I helped my lbs troubleshoot the aftermath of a crash on a Di2 system. I recall it was going to take $400 in cables to fix it, and the diagnostic software didn't pinpoint the issue very quickly. OTOH, I have seen any number of cable driven bikes that were modified into single speeds so the rider could complete their ride. Di2 failures among randonneurs that ride a lot seems to involve not charging the battery in time. Oftentimes the battery is hidden and you can't just swap another one in. It seems like etap wouldn't have this problem as much because you are constantly swapping out batteries. I wanted an etap system for my travel bike, but now they went to 12 speed and I see no reason for that. Maybe shimano will come out with wireless
Some misleading info here. I donít really know why any Di2 wires would ever have to be replaced; wires donít really fail. But even if they did need to be replaced, ALL of the wires in a Di2 system donít come anywhere close to costing $400. Hell, I think you could replace all of the wires and the junction boxes for less than $400, but I still donít know how you would wreck them.

You could ride a 1200k brevet on a single charge of a Di2 battery and have plenty of juice left over. So, running out of battery power would require epic stupidity.
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Old 12-26-19, 10:31 PM
  #32  
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Count me as an electronic shifting skeptic.

Upside: shifts a little quicker. Downside: if something goes wrong, your ride is probably over. And things often go wrong on brevets.

Itís cool on racing bikes, but whatís the point of it on a randonneuse?
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Old 12-27-19, 03:56 AM
  #33  
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It took me over 4 years of searching to find a 1980's Miyata 1000 in my size

I found one in May from a seller in Germany .... took several emails to convince him to ship it to the UK

Bike is in mint condition and was his late father's who bought it brand new, was very nervous of riding with drop bars, so stored it indoors for 44 years

I'm still changing things and so far I've done the following:

HED Belgium Plus rims (tubeless rims), SON 28 Dynamo hub, Royce rear hub and am currently using Continental GP 5000 TL (tubeless tyres in 32mm wide)

Honjo hammered fenders which will allow me to use tyres up to 38mm wide

Brooks Cambium C17 Carved saddle

3 Nitto stainless steel bottle cages

MTB clipless pedals

Japanese Crane Suzu brass bell

Supernova front and rear dynamo lights (I need to change the front Supernova E3 triple light to the Supernova E3 Pro light as the triple is way too bright for oncoming cars (it has a symetrical light beam)

I've bought the Tubus Cosmo stainless steel back rack

Still to buy the Tubus stainless front rack

Still to buy 4 Ortlieb bags (I have the full set of Miss Grape bikepacking bags for when I want to travel lighter without the pannier bags)

still to buy the Sinewave Revolution powerbank charger

still to buy a secondary front USB light such as a Lupine ... I have a Cygolite Hotshot pro 200 as a rear backup

then I think I'm done .... my first tour will be in May/June 2020 along a part of the Wild Atlantic way in Ireland (fishing/camping where possible plus some B&B inbetween) .... I'm using this bike as my daily commuter and will also use it for some Audax rides

I still have all the original parts (including the original Miyata Radial tyres), original Miyata pedals, mirror etc should I wish to enter L'Eroica events

here's a pic from a while back with the original miyata rack (It came with the original Miyata front and rear racks but they are not as strong as Tubus)







If I were to buy a newer bike, I'd be looking very closely at something like a Mason Bokeh with disc brakes

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Old 02-20-20, 03:19 PM
  #34  
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OP here, back for more; call it a mini-zombie thread.

Still recovering from the injury, with added insult of some kind of bug for the last several days. My hard neck brace is off, I've been cleared to ride paved trails but no traffic, and post-crash miles to date are around 70.

I had a chat with a local builder, and he could put me in a full custom bike for rando from $4k on up depending. He can do pretty much everything I want, though he does only work in steel and has gone 100% thru-axle.

An alternative that's growing on me lately is the All City Space Horse disc https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/space_horse
Room for 700x42 with fenders! That's what I'm talking about.

Frameset at $650 or their SRAM Apex build at $1500 ($1200 for the Cream color if I'm reading it correctly). If I start with the frame, the things on my list it lacks are:
Horizontal top tube. Purely aesthetic to me; it's nearly there so I'll give it a pass.
Three bottle mounts. Can be worked around.
Chain Hanger on the seat stay. Again mainly aesthetic.

I've been comparing it to the offerings from Surly and Salsa, and it looks better to my eyes. Heck I might see if Joe Bike in Portland has my size in stock. I may be too sick to work, but not too sick to throw a leg over a bike .
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Old 02-20-20, 03:36 PM
  #35  
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I have an All City Mr. Pink (that is what is shown in my avatar) and it has worked out very well for randonneuring!
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Old 02-20-20, 07:33 PM
  #36  
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That Space Horse looks great. Does anyone here have one?
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Old 02-20-20, 08:17 PM
  #37  
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Compact double with an 11/32 cassette. I like a wider range myself, I have a road triple (52/42/30) with an 11/32 cassette on my rando bike. But the compact double is close to what I have, so probably not worth modifying later.

I do not think I have ever seen a replaceable derailleur hanger on a steel frame. Is that as rare as I think it is? Is that something that you need to get a spare in case of damage?

Cream color bike has a five arm crank, others are four arm. I did not look close at other components, they might also differ.

Sounds like you are getting a new bike, then you will have to decide later how important things like a dynohub are. Or couplings.

I like having a rear disc on a chain stay like that instead of on the seatstay, that makes it less likely that fitting a rack becomes problematic.

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Old 02-20-20, 08:19 PM
  #38  
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Oops, double posted.
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Old 02-21-20, 01:52 AM
  #39  
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Iím surprised they are still making bikes with quick release disc brakes. My mtb has them and they are finicky to get the discs lined up after removing the wheel. My LBS has one of the new all-city bike shop and he paint looks amazing, the rest of the parts seem like good stuff. Iíd buy a replacement hanger and toss it in the saddlebag. I suppose one of those emergency hangers would work with the quick release wheels but Iíve never had a hanger issue on the road.

i am thinking about getting a Fuji Jari as a second rando rig, has room 700x43 or 650x50 or something like that. I was eyeing up the carbon version but they did have a steel one at some point but it had entry level parts on it, dunno if they still make it or even if theyíre available widely.
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Old 02-21-20, 09:46 AM
  #40  
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QR dropouts on a disc fork is definitely an anachronism nowadays. I suggest getting TA hubs and using a QR adapter. OTOH, if you use 40mm tires with sealant, no reason to take your wheels off.

I have an all city. It's a bit quirky and heavy, but I have definitely gotten my money's worth out of it. I wish it had mid fork braze ons like the Space Horse. I made another fork for it, but I haven't gotten it coated yet so it isn't installed.
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Old 02-21-20, 09:58 AM
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unterhausen how much does it weigh?
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Old 02-21-20, 10:14 AM
  #42  
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I have never had any problem seating my quick release rear disc wheel into the frame, the disc and brake unit always line up just right. But I only have one bike with a disc wheel, so my "survey" has a very small population. Perhaps some frames have dropouts with larger manufacturing tolerances?
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Old 02-21-20, 02:33 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
unterhausen how much does it weigh?
the frame is really stout, but I guess my build is also pretty heavy. How much could a frame weigh? Can't be a pound heavier than a lightweight steel frame. All I know is I had to carry it up 9 flights of stairs one time and I was out of breath the entire time. That was after a couple of years of riding it, and it was the first time I realized it was a heavy bike.

My LBS has some of the Cosmic Stallions. That looks like a nice bike. Outfitted with GRX.

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Old 03-22-20, 06:26 PM
  #44  
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I had a short test ride of the Space Horse, before things shut down. I liked the ride - smooth and comfortable for the 20 minute test ride. I didn't get a chance to ride the Fuji Jari. That line looks promising.

It's not the time for me to spend money on a new bike, since income is not assured. OTOH supporting the local economy... we'll see. Nonetheless, that doesn't stop the ongoing analysis though .

Currently looking at:

Soma Fog Cutter build (currently my #1 )
Space Horse (lacks 3rd bottle mount, mech disc)
Fuji Jari 2.3 (mech disc)
Surly Straggler (2, mech disc, 1x)

Interestingly, Soma calls the Fog Cutter "road bike geometry, with clearance for wide tires", white Fuji says the Jari is designed for gravel, "not just a road bike with wide tires".
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Old 07-04-20, 09:04 PM
  #45  
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OP with an update.

Yesterday I came home with a Soma Fog Cutter frame. (in a box, carried by me on a bike for 10 miles from Universal, but that's another story). It's gorgeous.

Parts acquired thus far are a Selle Anatomica saddle, currently on my vintage Windsor, and a set of 105 11x3 integrated shifters, bars. Measuring up the Fog Cutter (which is gorgeous, did I mention) against my last list:
  • Room for 38s plus fenders. 40 even. More even. Check.
  • Speaking of fenders, full coverage with mud flaps. Still the plan
  • While we're at it, eyelets for fenders and racks. Check.
  • Fork mounts for a front rando rack I haven't purchased the fork yet. Probably going with the Steel Fog Cutter, which has mounts
  • Three water bottle mounts No, just two.
  • 700c wheels. I'm tall and there's plenty tire selection at 700c. Check.
  • Generator hub lighting front and rear. Probably, though I'll keep looking at battery lights.
  • Headlamp on the front rack Second guessing the front rack.
  • Rechargeable 2nd headlight on the bars for high beam. Still the plan
  • Generator tail light mounted on the rear fender. Still the plan
  • Second battery powered tail-light on the seatpost Still the plan
  • Gearing will be low low low. Did I mention low? I want to spin at 5 mph. Still the plan
  • Coupled for travel Decided not.
  • Cable shifters Yes
  • Disc brakes Yes
  • Shallow flared drop bars So-so on the bars I picked up.
  • Tubeless ready, shallow v, alloy, black, no sticker rims Depends on how the budget sorts out.
  • Wahoo Element GPS Not in the budget.
  • Handlebar bag Still the plan
  • Under-seat bag Still the plan
  • Chain hanger on the seatstay. Because I like them. Nope
  • Pump peg and frame pump, if such things still exist. Nope
  • Externally routed cables with cable stops and maximum exposed inner wire Check
Things to consider
  • Hydraulic or mechanical discs. Depends on coupler technology. Cable actuated hydro is the plan
  • Paint matching custom metal fenders or replacable off-the-shelf fenders Soma has matching fenders. Like black though. TBD
  • Frame pump mounting location. Hmmm
  • Frame and fork material. Tending toward steel/carbon. Steel is real
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Old 07-06-20, 06:57 PM
  #46  
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Custom Alex Meade

Iíve my dream rando bike already, a stainless steel custom Alex Meade frameset with campy components.


Alex Meade Stainless Steel Randonnuer
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Old 07-06-20, 09:00 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by tacreamer View Post
Iíve my dream rando bike already, a stainless steel custom Alex Meade frameset with campy components.


Alex Meade Stainless Steel Randonnuer
Pretty.

I don't think I've seen this bike. It's been a while since we rode together. Maybe 5 years?
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Old 07-07-20, 12:15 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
Yesterday I came home with a Soma Fog Cutter frame. (in a box, carried by me on a bike for 10 miles from Universal, but that's another story). It's gorgeous.
....
  • Fork mounts for a front rando rack I haven't purchased the fork yet. Probably going with the Steel Fog Cutter, which has mounts
.....
  • Hydraulic or mechanical discs. Depends on coupler technology. Cable actuated hydro is the plan
Nice bike, this is mine.


Note that the front steel fork doesn't have mounting points so you'll need clamps. For brakes, I am using Juin Tech R1 Cable / Hydro and really like them.

Edit: To clarify, the steel fork doesn't have mid fork mounts.

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Old 07-07-20, 05:50 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by tacreamer View Post
Iíve my dream rando bike already, a stainless steel custom Alex Meade frameset with campy components.


Alex Meade Stainless Steel Randonnuer
Beautiful bike. I see a lot of photos of nice bikes on this forum, but this one I had to open up the photo in a new tab so I could see the photo better.

I really like those square taper Campy triples too, have them on several of my bikes. I did not even notice the S&S couplers until I looked at the blown up photo, they are almost camouflaged on the stainless frame. The upper rack mounts on the seat stays are not just welded on, they are a work of art too. I like a third bottle cage under the downtube too, I think that should be included on more bikes.

Marvelous. Thanks for posting.
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Old 07-07-20, 12:41 PM
  #50  
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Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

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My goodness, @tacreamer. You are done buying bikes.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

ďWhen man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.Ē ó Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
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