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A vaccine to the market?

Old 07-07-20, 12:24 PM
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79pmooney
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A vaccine to the market?

Novavax has just been given the go ahead to produce a vaccine.

"The U.S. will pay the vaccine maker Novavax $1.6 billion to develop 100 million doses of a coronavirus vaccine by early 2021, the company said.

The deal is the largest that the Trump administration has made so far with a company as part of Operation Warp Speed, the federal effort to make coronavirus vaccines and treatments available to Americans as quickly as possible.Novavax, which is based in Maryland, has never brought a product to market." (NY TImes daily briefing)

Sounds good but ... is this another hand off to a friend? Trusting $1.6 billion (and perhaps lives) to as company that has produced nothing so far? I'm hoping my misgivings are warrant-less. I'm hoping to see a vaccine by mid-winter for at least my high risk house mate so I don't have to live with causing a death and I can get back to come kind of life. He should be early in the line for a new government backed vaccine, My fear is that it won't be until January when this company comes up empty-handed that the feds give the go ahead (and that sum of money all over again) to a known pharmaceutical who then finally has the funds to start this up.

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Old 07-07-20, 12:45 PM
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^^^^^ for profit medicine at its be$t
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Old 07-07-20, 12:49 PM
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Why this isn't being pursued as a Manhattan Project-type enterprise by the NIH and the national lab infrastructure we currently have in this country is a mystery to me.
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Old 07-07-20, 02:40 PM
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Did The Oxford Covid Vaccine Work In Monkeys? Not Really

https://www.forbes.com/sites/william.../#32ce25143c71
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Old 07-07-20, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
Why this isn't being pursued as a Manhattan Project-type enterprise by the NIH and the national lab infrastructure we currently have in this country is a mystery to me.
I read The History of the Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes earlier this year, and it was mind-blowing the industrial, construction, and personnel effort the U.S. put into atomic bomb production. We were panicked we might lose the race, after the war was over we found out although other countries were generally up to speed on the theory (Germans, Japanese, Russians) nobody was even close to a working bomb in terms of materials or design.

But yeah, that same kind of effort applied to a vaccine seems like it would be good. Assuming vaccine research and production are scaleable like that. Not all problems are solved quicker by throwing more resources at them.
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Old 07-07-20, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
Why this isn't being pursued as a Manhattan Project-type enterprise by the NIH and the national lab infrastructure we currently have in this country is a mystery to me.
I suspect you could hazard a pretty good guess given the priorities of those making such decisions.
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Old 07-07-20, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
I read The History of the Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes earlier this year, and it was mind-blowing the industrial, construction, and personnel effort the U.S. put into atomic bomb production. We were panicked we might lose the race, after the war was over we found out although other countries were generally up to speed on the theory (Germans, Japanese, Russians) nobody was even close to a working bomb in terms of materials or design.

But yeah, that same kind of effort applied to a vaccine seems like it would be good. Assuming vaccine research and production are scaleable like that. Not all problems are solved quicker by throwing more resources at them.
Did the Manhattan Project have a point man? A guy in charge?
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Old 07-07-20, 07:27 PM
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Hong Kong (CNN)The Chinese government has approved the use of an experimental Covid-19 vaccine for the country's military -- the latest step in a global race to stop the deadly disease caused by the novel coronavirus.

The vaccine, known as Ad5-nCoV, was jointly-developed by the Beijing Institute of Biotechnology -- part of the Chinese government's Academy of Military Medical Sciences -- and vaccine company CanSino Biologics.

In a statement to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange on Monday, CanSino announced that China's Central Military Commission had given the vaccine a "military specially-needed drug approval" on June 25. The special permission will last for one year and will only apply to military personnel.
There you go, you could join the PLA and get a covid19 vaccine quicker.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/healt...cli/index.html
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Old 07-07-20, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
The deal is the largest that the Trump administration has made so far with a company as part of Operation Warp Speed, the federal effort to make coronavirus vaccines and treatments available to Americans as quickly as possible.Novavax, which is based in Maryland, has never brought a product to market." (NY TImes daily briefing)
Why would they need a vaccine for something they kept assuring us wasn't that serious, and would just go away? It's overblown, we don't need to wear masks or social distance. Liberate the states from shutdowns, remember?
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Old 07-08-20, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Did the Manhattan Project have a point man? A guy in charge?
Yes, there was Oppenheimer, scientifically, but also a particular military guy (general?) who was the top administrator, interfacing with the government, etc. I'd have to look up his name again.

Got it: LtGen Leslie Groves
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Old 07-08-20, 11:10 AM
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No one has any concept what it takes to produce a billion doses of anything. Full stop, right there.
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Old 07-08-20, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Did the Manhattan Project have a point man? A guy in charge?
Probably a scientist. NOT a politician. (or village idiot)

Robert Oppenheimer was put in charge of putting the pieces together at Los Alamos. After the final bill was tallied, nearly $2 billion had been spent on research and development of the atomic bomb. The Manhattan Project employed over 120,000 Americans.
https://www.ushistory.org/us/51f.asp...0%20Americans.

But still, the point being... gee we can put this sort of effort into war projects and defense spending... but national health... Good luck with that.
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Old 07-08-20, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Yes, there was Oppenheimer, scientifically, but also a particular military guy (general?) who was the top administrator, interfacing with the government, etc. I'd have to look up his name again.

Got it: LtGen Leslie Groves
That's the recipe. If it is life or death and you need it done right, you go to the military. Those at the top know how to do big projects, how to delegate what needs to be done that they don't know. They've spent years developing contacts. They "get" that they are there to take action. (Well, there are militaries where the top positions are reached through appointments and favoritism. I hope ours never gets there.)

What we so desperately needed back in February was that guy in charge who could go to the CDC and say "get a test out there. Doesn't have to be the best but it needs to be out in the thousands now! (You can put your "B" team on making a better test"). He goes to the FDA "Fast track approval of any tests developed outside that seem to work. I"ll take the heat for any damage done." Puts a trusted subordinate in charge of setting up a national contact tracing system. Maybe delegates someone to read up on what did and did not work in the Spanish Flu.

George W. Bush created just that post with a mandate that each president start his term with it in place. Also that each outgoing president had to help the incoming administration get up to speed. That happened. I never cared for George W. but I have to give him props for that.

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Old 07-08-20, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes View Post
No one has any concept what it takes to produce a billion doses of anything. Full stop, right there.
It does not have to all happen overnight. It can be delivered in phases in different areas. We do the same with Flu vaccines each year.

The biggest issue at this point seems to be how long it will be effective.
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Old 07-08-20, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
George W. Bush created just that post with a mandate that each president start his term with it in place. Also that each outgoing president had to help the incoming administration get up to speed. That happened. I never cared for George W. but I have to give him props for that.
I don't get what you mean by 'that post'. Say more?
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Old 07-08-20, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
I don't get what you mean by 'that post'. Say more?
I saw several articles on this early in the pandemic but cannot find them now Each administration is to appoint a qualified person to serve as the point man in a national emergency. I believe Trump appointed an admiral who brought on his full staff. Exactly what you want at a time like this. But the admiral screwed up and was shown the door. His staff followed him out. (I suspect the admiral simply spoke the truth when he saw the BS flying.) I tried to look up the admiral among the current and past staff of this administration but the fired and departed list was like the list of graduating seniors at my university and I gave up. (I went to Michigan. Yes, a little exaggeration but you get the picture.)
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Old 07-08-20, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I tried to look up the admiral among the current and past staff of this administration but the fired and departed list was like the list of graduating seniors at my university and I gave up. (I went to Michigan. Yes, a little exaggeration but you get the picture.)
lol, I get the picture, thx for the explanation. Maybe somebody else remembers the guy you're talking about. But yeah, I guess we shouldn't be that surprised when we elect a guy whose catch phrase is "You're fired!"
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Old 07-10-20, 04:04 PM
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A fine article in today's NY Times about Regeneron, a research company that developed an Ebola treatment in record time. The company first heard of a viral breakout in Wuhan in January. They determined immediately this was something to pay close attention to. Through January, as the news from China became more serious, they got samples of the virus and by the end of February they were in a full court press. One of their researchers, a woman named Stephanie Giordano, was working 90 hour weeks. I would be curious to know what our Center for Disease Control or the world Health Organization were doing at the time; having power lunches to discuss how serious the outbreak might be? At the present time, Regeneron might have a vacccine by winter.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/h...ntibodies.html
Miss Giordano, with several colleagues has written a paper about this work for Science.
https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...ce.abd0831.DC1
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Old 07-24-20, 08:01 PM
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Coronavirus vaccine: The first Phase 3 vaccine trial in the US is expected to begin next week

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...LVK?li=BBnb7Kz
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Old 07-25-20, 05:57 AM
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Corporate Insiders Pocket $1 Billion in Rush for Coronavirus Vaccine


****They are making millions of dollars after announcing positive developments, including support from the government, in their efforts to fight Covid-19. After such announcements, insiders from at least 11 companies — most of them smaller firms whose fortunes often hinge on the success or failure of a single drug — have sold shares worth well over $1 billion since March, according to figures compiled for The New York Times by Equilar, a data provider.

In some cases, company insiders are profiting from regularly scheduled compensation or automatic stock trades. But in other situations, senior officials appear to be pouncing on opportunities to cash out while their stock prices are sky high. And some companies have awarded stock options to executives shortly before market-moving announcements about their vaccine progress.

The sudden windfalls highlight the powerful financial incentives for company officials to generate positive headlines in the race for coronavirus vaccines and treatments, even if the drugs might never pan out.

***
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Old 07-25-20, 06:40 PM
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Hong Kong (CNN)The Chinese government has approved the use of an experimental Covid-19 vaccine for the country's military -- the latest step in a global race to stop the deadly disease caused by the novel coronavirus.

The vaccine, known as Ad5-nCoV, was jointly-developed( LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF THE REST OF THE WORLD) by the Beijing Institute of Biotechnology -- part of the Chinese government's Academy of Military Medical Sciences -- and vaccine company CanSino Biologics.

In a statement to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange on Monday, CanSino announced that China's Central Military Commission had given the vaccine a "military specially-needed drug approval" on June 25. The special permission will last for one year and will only apply to military personnel.

>>> if this bares out then the COVID CURE emanates from where the COVID VIRUS came from another COVID COINCIDENCE or an indicia of ...
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Old 07-25-20, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
Hong Kong (CNN)The Chinese government has approved the use of an experimental Covid-19 vaccine for the country's military -- the latest step in a global race to stop the deadly disease caused by the novel coronavirus.

The vaccine, known as Ad5-nCoV, was jointly-developed( LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF THE REST OF THE WORLD) by the Beijing Institute of Biotechnology -- part of the Chinese government's Academy of Military Medical Sciences -- and vaccine company CanSino Biologics.

In a statement to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange on Monday, CanSino announced that China's Central Military Commission had given the vaccine a "military specially-needed drug approval" on June 25. The special permission will last for one year and will only apply to military personnel.

>>> if this bares out then the COVID CURE emanates from where the COVID VIRUS came from another COVID COINCIDENCE or an indicia of ...
They are not light years ahead of the rest of the world. They just decided to offer it to military personnel and employess of some state owned companies BEFORE it has completed phase III trials.
Only in China. Chinese scientists are among the worlds best. Their bureaucrats and public health systems, not so much.
There are a number of vaccines, not just from China, in phase III trials. Usually this process takes years, but everything is being fast tracked. We will see how it works.
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Old 07-26-20, 07:25 AM
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^^^^ admittedly " light years" is hyperbolic BUT if the PLA is being vaccinated en masse it is reasonable to assume that the PRC is at least 2 years ahead of ameriKa & the EU & in COVID times 2 years is an eternity. my point is that a peculiar knowledge of the origin of COVID -19 is a distinct advantage in the development of any vaccine.
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Old 07-26-20, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
^^^^ admittedly " light years" is hyperbolic BUT if the PLA is being vaccinated en masse it is reasonable to assume that the PRC is at least 2 years ahead of ameriKa & the EU & in COVID times 2 years is an eternity. my point is that a peculiar knowledge of the origin of COVID -19 is a distinct advantage in the development of any vaccine.
I would say they are 3 - 4 years ahead of us since we are arbitrary throwing numbers around.
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Old 07-26-20, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by CycleryNorth81 View Post
I would say they are 3 - 4 years ahead of us since we are arbitrary throwing numbers around.
in any case there is the looming issue that because the vaccine race seems to be nationalized, the weaponizing of any cure has enormous geopolitical consequences. the nation that solves the COVID riddle has little incentive to benefit its rivals until it maximizes its vaccine use. the MANHATTAN PROJECT analogy as well as trump's nationalism bears this out. such an occurrence is fraught with irrational scenarios as vaccine less masses in other nations create national clamors & nuclear states demand access or else. suffice to say that absent rigid authoritarianism even the nation that develops a vaccine will be confronted with massive problems caused by how and in what order it chooses to inoculate. BTW if you think the US really is 3-4 yrs lagging, you are foreseeing the end of america as you ever knew it to be.
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