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Is There A Reason That Mountain & Bike Handlebar Diameters Are Different?

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Is There A Reason That Mountain & Bike Handlebar Diameters Are Different?

Old 07-07-20, 04:44 PM
  #51  
HD3andMe
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
I did read it and that's where I saw what all was needed to make them compatible includuing the battery and the software upgrade.

Cheers
Nowhere in the AXS link is a battery or software upgrade mentioned. Because you don't need a compatible battery or a software upgrade to make it work, as you claim.

Here is the AXS link so you can read it:https://blog.3t.bike/2019/09/12028/g...s-drivetrains/

Again " they're only compatible with a lot of tinkering and the use of a special battery and a software change." is false.
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Old 07-07-20, 05:36 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
Thanks for correcting your erroneous "SRAM's market share is "fairly small." bit.

To learn more about how SRAM has taken away significant market share from Shimano, you should study how SRAM was first to market with 1x in the MTB segment and has been eating Shimano's lunch on OEM specs (which helps drive significant repeat business, further strengthening market share).
You seem to be really quick to declare victory where it isn’t justified. SRAMs market share is 35% but they have a suspension division that is a very large part of the market share. Shimano owns half the market and doesn’t have a suspension division (thank goodness) so their market share of the component market is much, much larger. SRAM has cut into the component market but Shimano isn’t going to be on the ropes anytime soon. Assuming that half to two thirds of SRAM’s market share is suspension related, that leave 15 to 20% of the component market...giving Shimano 80 to 85% of the component market. And even that portion of the component market is mostly on the mountain bike side. SRAM’s portion of the road component market is diminishingly small.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
Nowhere in the AXS link is a battery or software upgrade mentioned. Because you don't need a compatible battery or a software upgrade to make it work, as you claim.

Here is the AXS link so you can read it:https://blog.3t.bike/2019/09/12028/g...s-drivetrains/

Again " they're only compatible with a lot of tinkering and the use of a special battery and a software change." is false.
You seem to be confusing two articles. The one that talks about Shimano clearly says

XTR Di2 Firmware Updates

Before you can think about mixing Shimano’s XTR Di2 MTB derailleurs with the company’s mechanical brake or hydraulic brake road Di2 shifters, some firmware needs to be updated using Shimano’s eTube software. Namely the battery, SM-BTR1 for external or SM-BTR2 for internal; they need to be on Version 3.0.10 – at the time of this article.

...



Known Incompatibilities
  • Road Di2 derailleurs and XTR Di2 derailleurs cannot be mixed and matched. For example, you cannot use a Di2 road front derailleur in conjunction an XTR Di2 rear derailleur – Shimano blocks this with the system firmware. Some people will claim it can be done, but we’ve yet to see a working example.
The blog.3t.bike link only mentioned Shimano in passing and not in very glowing terms.

but until now that meant mechanical shifting or a cobbled-together Di2 setup mixing road and MTB parts that Shimano doesn’t want you to mix. So every firmware update is a potential game-over for your shifting.
It might be easier with SRAM...good for them...but that has no bearing on what Shimano does.

And, by the way, just because you can show that one part of Shimano’s electronic systems force road and mountain systems to work together (barely), what about the rest of the Shimano line? Are you saying that just because one system works, the others will too? I’d love it if it were true but it’s not. Electronic shifting is an outlier that really proves nothing.
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Last edited by cyccommute; 07-07-20 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 07-07-20, 07:47 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
You seem to be really quick to declare victory where it isnít justified. SRAMs market share is 35% but they have a suspension division that is a very large part of the market share. Shimano owns half the market and doesnít have a suspension division (thank goodness) so their market share of the component market is much, much larger. SRAM has cut into the component market but Shimano isnít going to be on the ropes anytime soon. Assuming that half to two thirds of SRAMís market share is suspension related, that leave 15 to 20% of the component market...giving Shimano 80 to 85% of the component market. And even that portion of the component market is mostly on the mountain bike side. SRAMís portion of the road component market is diminishingly small.
Again, thanks for continuing to correct your erroneous "SRAM's market share is "fairly small." bit.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
You seem to be confusing two articles. The one that talks about Shimano clearly says
Nope, I pointed him to the AXS link, he read the Shimano link (which you're now quoting too - please pay attention), and I pointed him once again to the AXS link.

It's right there in black and white, if you care to spend the time to actually read the article. No battery or software changes needed for AXS to mix road/gravel/mtb.


Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
And, by the way, just because you can show that one part of Shimanoís electronic systems force road and mountain systems to work together (barely), what about the rest of the Shimano line? Are you saying that just because one system works, the others will too? Iíd love it if it were true but itís not. Electronic shifting is an outlier that really proves nothing.
You're moving the goal posts.

Here is your false claim that I replied to:

"modern mountain and road shift and brake levers arenít compatible with the drivetrain and brake components."

To summarize:

Modern SRAM mountain and road shift systems and brake levers are compatible with the drivetrain and brake components.
Modern Shimano mountain and road shift systems and brake levers are compatible with the drivetrain and brake components.
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Old 07-08-20, 04:01 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
Revo-Shift grip shifters, of course...
With a sweet, sweet Denali 2 piece handle bar? Cool!!!!
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Old 07-08-20, 04:18 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
Again, thanks for continuing to correct your erroneous "SRAM's market share is "fairly small." bit.
15% of the component market is small by anyoneís measure.

[Nope, I pointed him to the AXS link, he read the Shimano link (which you're now quoting too - please pay attention), and I pointed him once again to the AXS link.

It's right there in black and white, if you care to spend the time to actually read the article. No battery or software changes needed for AXS to mix road/gravel/mtb.
Miele man quoted you and he was clearly talking about the CX magazine article which is about using Shimano parts. Directing him to another article on a different system doesnít negate what the CX magazine article said. For Shimano, a battery and software change is needed. It doesnít matter to the discussion of the Shimano system if SRAM system works together better.


You're moving the goal posts.
Just moving them back to where they were before you shot them into space.

Here is your false claim that I replied to:

"modern mountain and road shift and brake levers arenít compatible with the drivetrain and brake components."

To summarize:

A modern Shimano mountain and road shift systems and brake levers can be made compatible with the drivetrain and brake components with a lot of extra work and probably extra parts.
Let me fix that for you. Iíve admitted to being wrong about SRAM. But Shimano road and mountain systems donít work together with one esoteric exception that may fall apart at the next software upgrade. Cable actuated Shimano systems are incompatible between the different disciplines. And, as most people are going to be dealing with cable system, that is most relevant to the discussion.
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Old 07-08-20, 07:05 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
15% of the component market is small by anyoneís measure.
Nah, but again, thanks for your admissions.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Miele man quoted you and he was clearly talking about the CX magazine article which is about using Shimano parts. Directing him to another article on a different system
Please pay attention.

MM: "Seems like they're only compatible with a lot of tinkering and the use of a special battery and a software change."

Me:
"That is false. Please go back and read the AXS link to learn why"

You need to follow the bouncing ball here, lest you continue to be really confused.


Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Just moving them back to where they were before you shot them into space.
Nope. I've been discussing your silly "modern mountain and road shift and brake levers aren't compatible with the drivetrain and brake components" nonsense this whole time. But please keep deflecting.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Let me fix that for you. Iíve admitted to being wrong about SRAM. But Shimano road and mountain systems donít work together with one esoteric exception that may fall apart at the next software upgrade.
Thanks again for admitting that you didn't know what you were going on about.

Hopefully this new found knowledge will stick with you.
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