Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

SDV Drive!

Old 04-07-20, 11:37 AM
  #1  
Chr0m0ly 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Chr0m0ly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hamilton Heights, Manhattan, New York, NY
Posts: 1,573

Bikes: '84 Miyata 610 '85 Miyata 710, 86 Miyata 710, 91 Cannondale ST600, 84 Trek 610, 520, 620, 91 Miyata 1000LT, a few frames, some odds and ends....

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 619 Post(s)
Liked 224 Times in 145 Posts
SDV Drive!

A fellow on the steel is real FB page posted this thing!

With the video from Alan Duignan, found this info about the SDV system. Quite a few links in there as well to the actual company website and an employee from that bike company even commented on this blog post:

https://tadpolerider2.wordpress.com/2015/10/12/sdv-drive-with-oval-pedal-motion-a-more-efficient-drive-system/

[img]blob:https://www.bikeforums.net/ff2c86d2-7e10-46fe-8c71-9245f408133b[/img]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EpiEX2...ature=youtu.be

Chr0m0ly is offline  
Likes For Chr0m0ly:
Old 04-07-20, 12:21 PM
  #2  
scarlson
Senior Member
 
scarlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 803

Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked 382 Times in 232 Posts
More like WTF drive! All those moving levers remind me of Walschaerts valve gear on a steam locomotive. And my goodness, just watching that guy pedal makes my knees hurt. Looks like fast transitions top and bottom, sharply transitioning to a linear power stroke. Kind of an extreme oval ring, in the orientation that Chris Froome had them clocked, opposite of Biopace. But the feet aren't moving in circles, so the knee angle change would be less. Hm.
scarlson is offline  
Likes For scarlson:
Old 04-07-20, 12:40 PM
  #3  
Drillium Dude 
NNNN
 
Drillium Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 10,257

Bikes: 1973 Colnago Super, 1973 Colnago Super concept, 1979 Medici Pro Strada, 1979 Dennis Sparrow, 1980 Alpina, 1981 Bianchi Super Leggera, 1983 Colnago Mexico, 1985 Casati Perfection, 1985 Somec Super Corsa, 2002 Bill Davidson custom

Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1537 Post(s)
Liked 801 Times in 419 Posts
Now we know the answer to the question: "How do I make my bike heavier, uglier, and more complicated with no discernible benefit?"

DD
__________________
My Flickr pics: https://www.flickr.com/photos/30331021@N08/

Drillium Dude is offline  
Likes For Drillium Dude:
Old 04-07-20, 01:26 PM
  #4  
scarlson
Senior Member
 
scarlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 803

Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked 382 Times in 232 Posts
Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Now we know the answer to the question: "How do I make my bike heavier, uglier, and more complicated with no discernible benefit?"

DD
Thought the answer to that question was di2
scarlson is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 01:39 PM
  #5  
USAZorro
Seor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 16,669

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 893 Post(s)
Liked 176 Times in 125 Posts
There has to be a less complicated way to move the pedals a bit more towards the rear for time-trialling. The Q-factor on that looks astronomical too.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 01:46 PM
  #6  
Chr0m0ly 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Chr0m0ly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hamilton Heights, Manhattan, New York, NY
Posts: 1,573

Bikes: '84 Miyata 610 '85 Miyata 710, 86 Miyata 710, 91 Cannondale ST600, 84 Trek 610, 520, 620, 91 Miyata 1000LT, a few frames, some odds and ends....

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 619 Post(s)
Liked 224 Times in 145 Posts
Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
There has to be a less complicated way to move the pedals a bit more towards the rear for time-trialling. The Q-factor on that looks astronomical too.
I wrote exactly that on the FB page.
reminds me of a stair climber.
Chr0m0ly is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 02:50 PM
  #7  
stardognine
Senior Member
 
stardognine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Arid Arizona, for now.
Posts: 2,674

Bikes: 1995 Cannondale Killer V

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 691 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 262 Times in 195 Posts
Wouldnt it be easier, to just hook up a few Husky-dawgs up front, & let them pull ya? 🙄😁😉 And whats up with that headset? 🤔 This is apparently the end-result of hoarding, with too much free time & spare parts.
stardognine is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 03:50 PM
  #8  
davester
Senior Member
 
davester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 1,763

Bikes: 1981 Ron Cooper, 1974 Cinelli Super Corsa, 2000 Gary Fisher Sugar 1, 1986 Miyata 710, 1983 Nishiki Cresta, 1982 Raleigh "International"

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 530 Post(s)
Liked 137 Times in 87 Posts
Wow, I've got to get me one of those! If you read the original article on this system from 2002 (https://www.hupi.org/HPeJ/0013/sdv.pdf) they claimed to have measured something like a 20% power increase, something that would be quite useful in sprints...if you believe it. Also, the system would be so distracting to your competitors that you'd flash past them while they were gaping.
davester is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 07:16 PM
  #9  
Chombi1 
Senior Member
 
Chombi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,157
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1123 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 141 Times in 109 Posts
Why?.......
__________________
72 Line Seeker
83 Davidson Signature
84 Peugeot PSV
84 Peugeot PY10FC
84 Gitane Tour de France.
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7
86 ALAN Record Carbonio
86 Medici Aerodynamic (Project)
88 Pinarello Montello
89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
95 Trek 5500 OCLV (Project)
Chombi1 is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 10:02 PM
  #10  
Nemosengineer 
Hair Ball
 
Nemosengineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Murrieta Ca.
Posts: 350

Bikes: Teledyne Titan, Bob Jackson World Tour, AlAn Record Ergal, 3Rensho Katana.

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 113 Posts
1. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

2. Three chains, five chain wheels, two bottom brackets, six pivoting links, do not equal a paragon of mechanical efficiency regardless of how you pedal it.

3. "Fig.3 delivers 1.35 times lager output power than that by a conventional drive represented by Fig. 1".
"The cadences for LMPs of the SDV drive vary from 20.8 rpm to 38 rpm as heart rate increases and those for the conventional one vary from 35.3 rpm to 88.9 rpm as heart rate increases".
There is no free lunch as the above quotes show, SDV drive is a friction monster.

: Mike
__________________
Booyah Hubba-Hubba!!!
Nemosengineer is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 12:04 AM
  #11  
Lascauxcaveman 
Senior Member
 
Lascauxcaveman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 7,766

Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.

Mentioned: 175 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1541 Post(s)
Liked 355 Times in 210 Posts
Oh, man, I sooooo wanna ride that bike. Just once. Don't wanna own it.

I'd like to try a swing bike, too. And one of those set up with the steering to work backwards. But the one in this post I'm pretty sure I could ride without falling and hurting myself.
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Trek 400 ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
Lascauxcaveman is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 12:16 AM
  #12  
RiddleOfSteel
Master Parts Rearranger
 
RiddleOfSteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,216

Bikes: '88 Land Shark Road Shark 66cm - '88 Davidson Signature 67cm - Other Too-Small Frames awaiting keep/sell decision..

Mentioned: 175 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked 353 Times in 244 Posts
Originally Posted by scarlson View Post
Thought the answer to that question was di2
Oh hey now wait a second! I resemble that remark, and I will have you know that it is a magnificent system. I run it on my Davidson Impulse (Ultegra 10-speed in this case) and it is flawless.

The real answer to that question is hydraulic disc brakes!
RiddleOfSteel is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 05:26 AM
  #13  
Prowler 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 1,521

Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes

Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 130 Times in 79 Posts
Originally Posted by Nemosengineer View Post
"Fig.3 delivers 1.35 times lager output power than that by a conventional drive represented by Fig. 1
Sounds great. Make mine Yeungling. I suppose in the confines of the Nautilus, greater beer output/square foot is a big plus. Thirsty times....
Prowler is offline  
Likes For Prowler:
Old 04-08-20, 06:13 AM
  #14  
clubman 
Youngman Grand
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 6,461

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1379 Post(s)
Liked 400 Times in 277 Posts
This video is 18 years old. I guess they didn't make it into production. Small mercies.
clubman is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 01:11 PM
  #15  
Chombi1 
Senior Member
 
Chombi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,157
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1123 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 141 Times in 109 Posts
There looks to be enough chainrings and chains down there to grind your ankles to hamburger if you are not careful.....
__________________
72 Line Seeker
83 Davidson Signature
84 Peugeot PSV
84 Peugeot PY10FC
84 Gitane Tour de France.
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7
86 ALAN Record Carbonio
86 Medici Aerodynamic (Project)
88 Pinarello Montello
89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
95 Trek 5500 OCLV (Project)
Chombi1 is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 08:25 AM
  #16  
RobbieTunes 
Half drunk? Finish!
 
RobbieTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Very Southern Indiana
Posts: 26,364
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 941 Times in 595 Posts
Has been replaced by the elliptical bike, in a way.
__________________

I have unfinished business.

RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 10:22 AM
  #17  
tricky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Upper Left, USA
Posts: 1,257
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 71 Posts
Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
The real answer to that question is hydraulic disc brakes!
Hey now! Every mountain biker (and soon CX'er) out there would beg to differ. :-D
tricky is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 10:50 AM
  #18  
jackbombay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Eastern Idaho
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked 328 Times in 195 Posts
SDV, Uhhhhhh, new one to me, thanks for posting it!

I would love to ride 50 miles on it to really get a feel for it, but I'm sure that will never happen.


Originally Posted by tricky View Post
Hey now! Every mountain biker (and soon CX'er) out there would beg to differ. :-D
I'm plenty happy with rim brakes on many of my bikes, but hydro discs are the cats pajamas, there is no debating that. GEtting them bled properly can be a hassle, but once set up they need zero attention, and I feel I could slow the rotation of the earth with them if I decided to do so.
jackbombay is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 11:00 AM
  #19  
tricky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Upper Left, USA
Posts: 1,257
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 71 Posts
Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
SDV, Uhhhhhh, new one to me, thanks for posting it!

I would love to ride 50 miles on it to really get a feel for it, but I'm sure that will never happen.




I'm plenty happy with rim brakes on many of my bikes, but hydro discs are the cats pajamas, there is no debating that. GEtting them bled properly can be a hassle, but once set up they need zero attention, and I feel I could slow the rotation of the earth with them if I decided to do so.
Yes! I wouldn't want anything else on my mountain bike. When setup correctly (I'm still learning. Just learned that you want to continue using organic pads if that's what you used on the rotor previously, for example) they are much less effort and provide more modulation than cable actuated discs. I am building up my CX with some SRAM drop bar hyrdos and am excited for that, but do need to buy a new bleed kit.
tricky is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 11:59 AM
  #20  
RiddleOfSteel
Master Parts Rearranger
 
RiddleOfSteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,216

Bikes: '88 Land Shark Road Shark 66cm - '88 Davidson Signature 67cm - Other Too-Small Frames awaiting keep/sell decision..

Mentioned: 175 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked 353 Times in 244 Posts
Originally Posted by tricky View Post
Hey now! Every mountain biker (and soon CX'er) out there would beg to differ. :-D
Ok ok ok, I will relent! Or rather, caveat or qualify my disc brake comment to road bikes (and anything close). MTBs look sick with discs, and have for a long time. And CX/gravel stuff looks just fine with them as well, largely because they were made from the outset to be that way (IMO). Road bikes being as svelte and light as they have been for so long--the discs encroach on that lithe, all-about-the-ride-quality nature. Again, IMO.
RiddleOfSteel is offline  
Likes For RiddleOfSteel:
Old 04-09-20, 12:37 PM
  #21  
tricky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Upper Left, USA
Posts: 1,257
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 71 Posts
Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
Ok ok ok, I will relent! Or rather, caveat or qualify my disc brake comment to road bikes (and anything close). MTBs look sick with discs, and have for a long time. And CX/gravel stuff looks just fine with them as well, largely because they were made from the outset to be that way (IMO). Road bikes being as svelte and light as they have been for so long--the discs encroach on that lithe, all-about-the-ride-quality nature. Again, IMO.
I see where you're coming from! Something about the classic lines of a C&V road bike are so lovely and caliper brakes are part of that. As much of a disc advocate as I am, I don't see a need for them on a sunny day road bike. But don't get me started on electronic shifting. The only reason I ever would want to charge my bike is for e-assist on a bike I am using to replace a car. Turns out you and I have opposing views on electronic shifting and disc brakes and both of us have luddite streaks.
tricky is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 02:34 PM
  #22  
RiddleOfSteel
Master Parts Rearranger
 
RiddleOfSteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,216

Bikes: '88 Land Shark Road Shark 66cm - '88 Davidson Signature 67cm - Other Too-Small Frames awaiting keep/sell decision..

Mentioned: 175 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked 353 Times in 244 Posts
Originally Posted by tricky View Post
I see where you're coming from! Something about the classic lines of a C&V road bike are so lovely and caliper brakes are part of that. As much of a disc advocate as I am, I don't see a need for them on a sunny day road bike. But don't get me started on electronic shifting. The only reason I ever would want to charge my bike is for e-assist on a bike I am using to replace a car. Turns out you and I have opposing views on electronic shifting and disc brakes and both of us have luddite streaks.
Is it luddite, or just proven? Lol. I took a well-used first generation Ultegra Di2 groupset (from ~2012-2014!) that I got from Bike Works, put it on my Prologue, and it has worked perfectly. I barely charge it, and that's once every three months just to top it off--it takes no time to do so. My Campagnolo EPS battery died because it was five years old and not properly cared for (aka charged to full every three months) when it was on the shelves.

I've always loved the Di2 brifter shape. It looks wicked and feels wonderful.
RiddleOfSteel is offline  
Likes For RiddleOfSteel:
Old 04-09-20, 03:01 PM
  #23  
jackbombay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Eastern Idaho
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked 328 Times in 195 Posts
I wish the video of the SDV drive was better, I want to see it move slowly so I can see how power gets from the pedals to the drivetrain.
jackbombay is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 07:44 PM
  #24  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 26,834

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1738 Post(s)
Liked 536 Times in 325 Posts
That video is horrible. It is like just watching someone rev up a car engine to check out a new carburetor. Is there an actual demonstration video somewhere?

It looks needlessly complicated.
__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 07:52 PM
  #25  
UKFan4Sure 
Useless Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 738
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 372 Post(s)
Liked 157 Times in 105 Posts
Originally Posted by davester View Post
Wow, I've got to get me one of those! If you read the original article on this system from 2002 (https://www.hupi.org/HPeJ/0013/sdv.pdf) they claimed to have measured something like a 20% power increase, something that would be quite useful in sprints...if you believe it. Also, the system would be so distracting to your competitors that you'd flash past them while they were gaping.
But how much would you lose in the extra weight?
__________________
2013 Schwinn Paramount Series 8, 2015 Specialized Roubaix Competition, 2008 Trek Portland, 1986 Schwinn LeTour, 1985 Peugeot PGN-10, 1986 Schwinn Voyageur
UKFan4Sure is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.