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Dammit! My '86 Miyata 710 needs new wheels!

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Dammit! My '86 Miyata 710 needs new wheels!

Old 06-10-20, 07:01 PM
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Dammit! My '86 Miyata 710 needs new wheels!

Like I said in the title, my '86 Miyata 710s wheels are pretty much gone (brake track wear is already worn past the anodizing, showing signs of rim weakness by starting to pulsate on hard braking. NOW what? Originally they were gray hard anodized Ukai 20A. Should I stick with gray hard anodized? And what hub? Right now it is still 6-speed freewheel. Should I keep it screw-on freewheel hub? I don't know what my options are... like how hard is it to go cassette (and which size/speed(?) given my frame 126mm spacing) Derailleurs are still the original friction-shifting SunTour Cyclone, shifted by SunTour barcons...

Pic for what I have...







HELP!!!!!
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Old 06-10-20, 07:34 PM
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I think you could go up to 8 speed comfortably with your derailleurs and shifters. Above that and friction shifting gets really finicky. Even 8 can sometimes be a chore.

Do you feel limited by your gearing?
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Old 06-10-20, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Piff View Post
I think you could go up to 8 speed comfortably with your derailleurs and shifters. Above that and friction shifting gets really finicky. Even 8 can sometimes be a chore.

Do you feel limited by your gearing?
Limited by 6-speed freewheel rear gearing? No. I live in the glacially-scoured lower Great Lakes! The biggest hills I encounter here are 30' highway and railroad overpasses! If I head south- or southeast from here I might get to some 200' river valleys and/or the start of the Appalachian foothills.

So again, if i don't stick with freewheel hubs (and who makes freewheel wheelsets these days) what hubs/freehub clusters could I use on this 'old' bike??? Advice on new (budget) wheelsets?
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Old 06-10-20, 10:12 PM
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@67tony could tell ya what to do...

First wheel build...

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Old 06-10-20, 10:33 PM
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These may be an option.

https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...fl38onfsbc2o57

https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...fl38onfsbc2o57
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Old 06-10-20, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
@67tony could tell ya what to do...

First wheel build...

Second for new rims on existing hubs! Might be able to reuse the spokes...
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Old 06-10-20, 11:29 PM
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Just because the ano layer is worn off doesn't mean the rims are "weak".

I've continued using such rims for years, I looked forward to the loss of the ano layer on the brake tracks!

The brake pulsation might just be the way the connecting sleeve is pressed into the ends of the rim, very normal for Araya and Ukai Dbl-walled rims of this era.

Perhaps new pads have suddenly exacerbated the pulsation issue which is due to the rim's variation of thickness(?).
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Old 06-12-20, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by brian3069 View Post
I had gotten a set of these wheels - in 27" - for my Univega Viva Sport build. Nice budget wheelset with no problems in ~1000 miles, but was looking for something a bit better for the 710. Butted stainless spokes, welded rim joint.
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Old 06-12-20, 07:42 AM
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Geez that's nothing. Back in the 80s when I used anodized rims they'd look like that after a week. It's irrelevant. If the brakes are pulsating, are your wheels out of true? If so, true them or get them trued. It also helps to sand the brake tracks lightly with about 220 grit sandpaper. That will remove anodizing, but it's already gone. The anodizing is just for aesthetics. Marketing used to insist otherwise, but it's bs.

There's no need to replace the wheels until the rims have been trued many times, and the spokes have started to break or gotten excessively uneven in tension. Even then, the conventional repair is to rebuild the hubs with new rims. There's a reason some of us who used to work in bike shops BITD have built hundreds and hundreds of wheels. Re-rimming used to be almost like getting new tires. Rims get old and bent, and need replacing.

However, times have changed. It may be cheaper these days to buy some premade replacement wheels like those Velomine M13 things. A bike shop in this century is likely to charge more than that to rebuild your existing wheels.

That said I'm not at all convinced you need new wheels or rim at all.

On the other hand, if you just want some new wheels that's perfectly understandable. Either reuse the hubs you have, or get new ones, but stick with freewheels IMO. 126 cassette stuff has been gone too long. Freewheels are still around. The bike could be converted to 130 but that would take some effort.

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Old 06-12-20, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly View Post
Second for new rims on existing hubs! Might be able to reuse the spokes...
If you can get a rim with the same diameter spoke bed then it's pretty easy to tape the new rim to the old one and then mode the spoke to the new rim. I want to do that with some tubular rims I have but get same spoke bed diameter clincher rims for them instead.

Cheers
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Old 06-12-20, 01:14 PM
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I have that exact same bike...same color even. I agree with most of the above posts in that it is unlikely that you need new rims. To remedy pulsation I suggest: 1) clean the rims really well with a mild abrasive; 2) make sure the pads are clean and are not age-hardened; 3) make sure there is no play in the brake pivots (that can definitely lead to severe pulsating and squealing).
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Old 06-12-20, 03:57 PM
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The pulsing has been getting worse - NEW dual-pivot brake calipers and pads (well, three years ago ( ), along with new cables, new tires at that rebuild. When I got it, the brake track wear (anodizing) was worn unevenly - noticeable at each spoke hole. I've ridden the heck out of it the past few years, and now the pulsing is getting more noticeable. For giggles, I tried a wheelset from a newer 700c 'flipper' bike and no pulsing. I probably will either rebuild the wheels with the current hubs, new spokes and Mavic Open Pro rims (probably black with machined brake tracks), or take a fellow BF member up on his offer of a like-new wheelset - also black Open Pro laced to an even nicer hubset.

I also am gathering the parts to build a set of wheels for the Univega Gran Tourismo - classic Phil freewheel hubset, butted spokes, and Sun CR18 rims -- although that 27" rim choice might change if something better comes along. The GT has canti brakes so that may be an issue if I re-size...
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Old 06-15-20, 06:16 PM
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A-HAH!!! Found it! The front rim has a crack starting along the brake track scratches (remember that this bike came from AZ). Probably a small rock or sand got stuck in the original brake pads and scored the rim pretty bad. The crack is about an inch long. The part of the rim outboard of the crack is defected out slightly and touches the brake pad first. So, this means that it'll be getting new hoops soon! Well, as soon as I can decide what to do! Either buy the wheelset offered by a BF member with better hubs - or relace my current hubs to a set of Open Pro...

So it looks like I'll be back to riding the trusty old '75 Fuji or the '84 Univega Viva Sport in the meantime since I don't have another 700C wheelset at the moment. Leaning toward the Univega -- I had fitted out The Viva Sport to Miyata 710 specs of the same year, other than it has 27" wheels vs the 710s 700C. It now wears the new 27" Sun M13II wheelset, Velo Orange racing pedals, 1st Gen Cyclone derailleurs, SunTour barcons and a 13-21 Winner Ultra 6-speed freewheel. Other additions were aero brake levers, and Tektro 559 dual-pivot brakes. Pasela TG 27x1-1/8 tires. I was able to get the weight down to 24.1 pounds even though it wears a Brooks-clone Fujita saddle on an upgraded seatpost, and the heavier tires. So all up it is a half-pound heavier than the '86 Miyata.
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Old 06-15-20, 06:56 PM
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So I have been replacing a lot of rims with the LP-18 rims from Weinmann about $25 per rim. But more to the point is there a specific rim you are looking for. I have a number here that are about to go to the metal recycler. The War Dept. is always on about how much bike stuff is around here, and this may be a win -win. PM me or call. Smiles, MH
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Old 06-15-20, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Cougrrcj View Post
Like I said in the title, my '86 Miyata 710s wheels are pretty much gone (brake track wear is already worn past the anodizing, showing signs of rim weakness by starting to pulsate on hard braking. NOW what? Originally they were gray hard anodized Ukai 20A. Should I stick with gray hard anodized? And what hub? Right now it is still 6-speed freewheel. Should I keep it screw-on freewheel hub? I don't know what my options are... like how hard is it to go cassette (and which size/speed(?) given my frame 126mm spacing) Derailleurs are still the original friction-shifting SunTour Cyclone, shifted by SunTour barcons...

Pic for what I have...







HELP!!!!!

If I liked the bike as a rider, I'd start looking for some good period-correct rims or plausible in-period replacements. In the first category I'd look for a pair of Mavic MA-40 or similar. For the second category I'd look for something that a previous owner might have used as a qualtiy replacement perhaps in the 15 years after the bike was new. In this category I'd look for a pair of Mavic Open Pros. With either one it's reasonable to optimize your spokes to maybe SS double-butted 2.0/1.6/2.0, and find a builder who can do all the tensioning properly. I'm not bad as a builder, but I'm nowhere near as good as a pro.

So that would be my approach.
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Old 06-15-20, 10:56 PM
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If you're friction shifting you can basically do whatever you want when it comes to how many cogs you want in the back...
Have at it!
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Old 06-16-20, 05:46 PM
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I thought more about it, and by the time I factor the cost of new spokes and two rims, I decided to pull the trigger on the wheelset offered to me from a BF member - like new -- built from NOS Dura Ace 7400 freewheel hubset, Sapim butted stainless spokes, and black Mavic Open Pro rims w/ machined brake tracks. Likely the last set of wheels I will ever need for this bike...
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Old 06-17-20, 04:32 PM
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Youve got new rims. How about new tires as well?

Inspired by this thread I finally got round to putting new tires on my 86 710. Vitoria Corsa 28mm on Araya rims measure at 27 mm by my calipers and are a snug but comfortable fit. Also , a very nice ride.

cheers.

Brad


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Old 06-17-20, 07:22 PM
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Well, today I did a more careful inspection of the original front rim -- SEVERAL suspected cracks, and a couple of spots of deep pits. I haven't given the rear rim the extreme close-up scrutiny yet -- but the point is moot since the new (to me) wheelset is on the way. I'll see if I can get good close-up pics of the bad spots - to prove to y'all that I wasn't exaggerating.
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Old 06-23-20, 07:22 PM
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Got the new wheelset today, will take pics of both old and new tomorrow! Just for schitts and giggles, I weighed both new wheels on a scale that measures down to grams... Bare wheelset is Front 770g, rear is 882g without skewers. The rear will either be getting a 13-21 or 13-24 Ultra-spaced six-speed freewheel from my stock of hoarded SunTour freewheels, or the Miyata's original 13-26... No need of going larger here on the glacially-scoured/flattened South Shore of Lake Erie!

I may put the 25mm Rubino Pro tire on the front while I'm at it to give a little more fork bridge clearance - the 28 is very close to rubbing - those have maybe 1mm of clearance. I once came to a standstill due to debris accumulation after riding through grass clippings that were blown into the street. The clippings jammed between the tire and fork bridge and stopped me withing 50 feet just like putting on the brakes. Yeah, the clearance is that tight!!!
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'86 Miyata 710
'90 Schwinn Woodlands
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Plus or minus a few others from time-to-time


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Old 06-26-20, 08:36 AM
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Ugly spots in the front rim deep pitting, rock strikes, and a couple of cracks (outlined in red). Sorry for the poor photography - using my cell phone...













Those cracks circled in red are really cracks - with the 28mm tire inflated to 90spi, the outer section of the rim edge is bulging out a tad...

Yep, it was time for new hoops!
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'86 Miyata 710
'90 Schwinn Woodlands
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Old 06-26-20, 08:50 AM
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Ya, those are nasty brake tracks. Show us a picture of the inside so we can see the cracks.
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Old 06-26-20, 09:13 AM
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Ouch.

The moral of this story:

1. Regularly inspect your brake pads for embedded gravel, grit, metal, etc.
2. Dig them out with a pocket knife or other pointy object.
3. If you hear a nasty scraping sound when the brakes are used, return to line 1.

Clearly the previous owner of the bike did not do this.
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Old 06-26-20, 09:15 AM
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Probably everyone else here knows this, but can I just share that my experience with current make free wheels has been unimpressive.

Even the Shimano 7-speed I bought a couple of years ago started to feel funny (thats a technical term) while under moderate pedal power after only a thousand miles or so. Im back to using a Sachs freewheel that is still working well.

Id be interested to hear experiences with the newer IRD freewheels. It looks like they are trying to make freewheels of a higher quality at least than the current Shimano/Sunrace stuff.

Otto
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Old 06-26-20, 08:00 PM
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I put the new wheels on today - and a new 25mm front tire instead of the 28, same make and model tire - Vittoria Rubino Pro Tech III. Lots more brake bridge clearance now! The only thing I don't like about the 25 is the 100/130psi min/max recommended tire pressure. I'm gonna stick with the 28mm tire on the rear with its 70/100 min/max pressure for a little more 'cushion' for my old bones... I had been happy with the 28s at 80f/90r

For a freewheel - the bike's original SunTour six-speed freewheel was NOT ultra-spaced, so I decided to stick with regular spacing. AND since I never have used the largest 26t cog on the rear, I opted for a six-speed SunTour Winner Pro in 13-23 - more closely-spaced options in the range I use the most! I had two different cog combination 13-21s, but those were Ultra-spaced. And yes, I did apply a good smear of anti-seize on the hub/freewheel threads!

The original rear wheel is still in good shape - no pitting, rock strikes or cracks that i can see. I'll keep it around for a spare...
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'84 Univega Gran Tourismo
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'90 Schwinn Woodlands
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