those young guys when will they learn?
01-09-14, 11:01 PM
#26
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The problem with a lot of younger mountain bikers is they relate mountain biking mainly to downhill, technical trail riding, where the modern full sus heavy bikes come into their own.
To me, mountain biking is as much about the uphill part and the cross-country and single-track elements where very often the nature of full sus dissipates much of the energy exerted.
I occasionally ride at a couple of trail centres where many riders are unwilling or unable to ride to the top on their bouncy bikes.
To me, mountain biking is as much about the uphill part and the cross-country and single-track elements where very often the nature of full sus dissipates much of the energy exerted.
I occasionally ride at a couple of trail centres where many riders are unwilling or unable to ride to the top on their bouncy bikes.
01-10-14, 07:29 AM
#27
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The paradox of cycling equipment is that purchasing and using the most expensive and lightest equipment actually makes you slower and weaker. The only people who will benefit from lighter/more aero equipment are racers.
The reason is very simple: Let's assume a racer requires 450 watts to go up a long climb on his current bike. His team gives him a bike that's much lighter and more aero. He still powers away at 450 watts, but now he climbs the hill significantly faster.
Now, let's suppose you can climb this same hill, but it takes you 300 watts and a lot more time. You go out and buy the same bike the pro above has been given (how clever these marketing companies are..,). Because it's lighter and more aero, it now costs just 200 watts to go up this same hill at the same speed. So now you are riding the hill at the same speed, on a more expensive bike, but using less energy. But you keep eating the same amount, because that's just one of the benefits of cycling, you can eat as much as you want! Soon, you are a little fatter. One day, your remarkable fast and expensive new bike breaks, and you are relegated to using your previous bike. But now, instead of expending 300 watts to go up that hill, you are now only expending 200 because you are fatter and because that's what you're now used to, It now takes you longer to get up that hill.
This is why I think n+1 is a stupid idea, and why having fancy new bikes is rubbish!
Luis
The reason is very simple: Let's assume a racer requires 450 watts to go up a long climb on his current bike. His team gives him a bike that's much lighter and more aero. He still powers away at 450 watts, but now he climbs the hill significantly faster.
Now, let's suppose you can climb this same hill, but it takes you 300 watts and a lot more time. You go out and buy the same bike the pro above has been given (how clever these marketing companies are..,). Because it's lighter and more aero, it now costs just 200 watts to go up this same hill at the same speed. So now you are riding the hill at the same speed, on a more expensive bike, but using less energy. But you keep eating the same amount, because that's just one of the benefits of cycling, you can eat as much as you want! Soon, you are a little fatter. One day, your remarkable fast and expensive new bike breaks, and you are relegated to using your previous bike. But now, instead of expending 300 watts to go up that hill, you are now only expending 200 because you are fatter and because that's what you're now used to, It now takes you longer to get up that hill.
This is why I think n+1 is a stupid idea, and why having fancy new bikes is rubbish!
Luis
01-10-14, 07:38 AM
#28
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Lockouts don't always help, take a 35lb hard tail bicycle, now cut off the rear triangle and add 10lbs of suspension components, now that extra 10lbs, when your competing with gravity is going to feel like 100lbs by the time you get to the top of a large hill. Which is why downhill bikes are only for downhill.
01-10-14, 08:46 AM
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You guys know there are 21 pound full-suspension bikes, right? That's lighter than some of the road bikes I have.
There are also full suspension bikes with 120+ mm travel in the 25 pound range, amazing stuff. Even full on downhill bikes have come down to under 40 pounds.
Yes, it's fun to tease the clueless young guys and make them struggle to keep up, but as soon as they figure it out, get some miles in the bank and some good training, forget it.
As much as we like to delude ourselves there is no substitute for a young, healthy body.
There are also full suspension bikes with 120+ mm travel in the 25 pound range, amazing stuff. Even full on downhill bikes have come down to under 40 pounds.
Yes, it's fun to tease the clueless young guys and make them struggle to keep up, but as soon as they figure it out, get some miles in the bank and some good training, forget it.
As much as we like to delude ourselves there is no substitute for a young, healthy body.
01-10-14, 08:55 AM
#30
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[QUOTE=Wogster;16398721], take a 35lb hard tail bicycle, now sell it for scrap QUOTE]
fify
fify
01-10-14, 10:17 AM
#31
Beicwyr Hapus
You guys know there are 21 pound full-suspension bikes, right? That's lighter than some of the road bikes I have.
There are also full suspension bikes with 120+ mm travel in the 25 pound range, amazing stuff. Even full on downhill bikes have come down to under 40 pounds.
Yes, it's fun to tease the clueless young guys and make them struggle to keep up, but as soon as they figure it out, get some miles in the bank and some good training, forget it.
As much as we like to delude ourselves there is no substitute for a young, healthy body.
There are also full suspension bikes with 120+ mm travel in the 25 pound range, amazing stuff. Even full on downhill bikes have come down to under 40 pounds.
Yes, it's fun to tease the clueless young guys and make them struggle to keep up, but as soon as they figure it out, get some miles in the bank and some good training, forget it.
As much as we like to delude ourselves there is no substitute for a young, healthy body.
I'm under no illusions however that, on the odd occasion when I do outpace someone half my age, it's for any other reason than they are very unfit or just not very good riders (or they're not trying).
01-10-14, 12:57 PM
#33
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Now that I'm on a training program, I'm legally prevented from dusting people. Can't exceed 107W except in a dire emergency.
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01-10-14, 03:44 PM
#34
Time for a change.
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Many years ago and out on my local hills and we came across about 10 younger mountain bikers. Caught then gradually up a couple of hills and held our own on the flat and downhills. the 3rd hill though was a basket. 12% average for a mile with the steepest bit at the top of 20%. Terrain at the bottom was a "Broken" brick and flint track that was not that comfortable to ride and did not offer much grip. On top of that it was rutted and on wet chalk that is not the easiest of surfaces to get grip on. By the time we got to the top we had passed all these mountain bikers on their lightweight FS Yetis and similar machines except for the leader of the group and he was fit. Waited at the top as we needed a rest too and watched the rest struggle up that final steep bit. They were amazed that we were all on hardtails that were a few years old and that we were of an age that they almost called "Ancient". Chatting to them and they came from a flatter part of the country and had decided to see what our hills were like. Some admitted that they were not as fit as they should be but were a bit surprised to be shown how to ride hills by a bunch of old guys on bikes that they would never contemplate riding.
We had pity on them and pointed out that they had just done the 2 hardest hills on the South Downs Way (A trail of 100 miles along the south Downs Ridge) and that we used to struggle on them till we learnt the right lines to miss the bad areas and the knowledge to find the grip when it was bad. Our bikes were also sorted for the terrain with tyres that would grip on the wet chalk and flints and not sink into the deep scree if we had to go through it. We knew the terrain and had been riding it for 20 odd years so knew what to expect.
For the next few miles I had a ride on one of these lightweight modern machines and it was good. Took the group down to our local cafe and the lad that had ridden my bike was shocked at how it handled. It may have been heavier than his bike but it went uphill so easily. Seemed that all of his leg power was going into the back wheel. That old 100mm travel on the front gave him just enough cushioning over the roughstuff but it held a true line at speed over the rough down slopes that his bike never would.
Final bit of praise came from one of the lads who said he could not wait to get 20 years older so he would have the knowledge and skill that we had to enable him to ride the hills with the ease that we had shown.
We had pity on them and pointed out that they had just done the 2 hardest hills on the South Downs Way (A trail of 100 miles along the south Downs Ridge) and that we used to struggle on them till we learnt the right lines to miss the bad areas and the knowledge to find the grip when it was bad. Our bikes were also sorted for the terrain with tyres that would grip on the wet chalk and flints and not sink into the deep scree if we had to go through it. We knew the terrain and had been riding it for 20 odd years so knew what to expect.
For the next few miles I had a ride on one of these lightweight modern machines and it was good. Took the group down to our local cafe and the lad that had ridden my bike was shocked at how it handled. It may have been heavier than his bike but it went uphill so easily. Seemed that all of his leg power was going into the back wheel. That old 100mm travel on the front gave him just enough cushioning over the roughstuff but it held a true line at speed over the rough down slopes that his bike never would.
Final bit of praise came from one of the lads who said he could not wait to get 20 years older so he would have the knowledge and skill that we had to enable him to ride the hills with the ease that we had shown.
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01-10-14, 03:48 PM
#35
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In mid '80s when cycling was getting popular I had just a few years behind me and was riding over a couple hundred miles a week. Some of my riding partners and I used to pick on newbies with nicer bikes and gear that we saw on the road. If we saw them we went out of our way to catch them and pass them. Everything changed dramatically when we caught the rides out of the local LBS parking lot where the guys who competed rode out of.
Only had two of my riding partners hang with those guys when they tried to drop them. One was an ex-Special Forces guy (no combat time but uniform hanging in closet) who showed me newspaper clippings where he ran a 4:26 mile in HS and a 4:16 mile in college. He was riding at the front of those guys in much less than one season. Most of the rest of my partners and I couldn't hang unless they let us. I was about an hour behind those guys in centuries.
Picking on relative newbies.
Only had two of my riding partners hang with those guys when they tried to drop them. One was an ex-Special Forces guy (no combat time but uniform hanging in closet) who showed me newspaper clippings where he ran a 4:26 mile in HS and a 4:16 mile in college. He was riding at the front of those guys in much less than one season. Most of the rest of my partners and I couldn't hang unless they let us. I was about an hour behind those guys in centuries.
Picking on relative newbies.
Last edited by Zinger; 01-10-14 at 04:07 PM.
01-10-14, 09:04 PM
#36
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On the other hand, I got passed on a long hill going to work the other day by a fat kid on a too-small mountain bike. ShouldntasmokedforfortyyearsIguess.
01-10-14, 11:55 PM
#37
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Many years ago and out on my local hills and we came across about 10 younger mountain bikers. Caught then gradually up a couple of hills and held our own on the flat and downhills. the 3rd hill though was a basket. 12% average for a mile with the steepest bit at the top of 20%. Terrain at the bottom was a "Broken" brick and flint track that was not that comfortable to ride and did not offer much grip. On top of that it was rutted and on wet chalk that is not the easiest of surfaces to get grip on. By the time we got to the top we had passed all these mountain bikers on their lightweight FS Yetis and similar machines except for the leader of the group and he was fit. Waited at the top as we needed a rest too and watched the rest struggle up that final steep bit. They were amazed that we were all on hardtails that were a few years old and that we were of an age that they almost called "Ancient". Chatting to them and they came from a flatter part of the country and had decided to see what our hills were like. Some admitted that they were not as fit as they should be but were a bit surprised to be shown how to ride hills by a bunch of old guys on bikes that they would never contemplate riding.
We had pity on them and pointed out that they had just done the 2 hardest hills on the South Downs Way (A trail of 100 miles along the south Downs Ridge) and that we used to struggle on them till we learnt the right lines to miss the bad areas and the knowledge to find the grip when it was bad. Our bikes were also sorted for the terrain with tyres that would grip on the wet chalk and flints and not sink into the deep scree if we had to go through it. We knew the terrain and had been riding it for 20 odd years so knew what to expect.
For the next few miles I had a ride on one of these lightweight modern machines and it was good. Took the group down to our local cafe and the lad that had ridden my bike was shocked at how it handled. It may have been heavier than his bike but it went uphill so easily. Seemed that all of his leg power was going into the back wheel. That old 100mm travel on the front gave him just enough cushioning over the roughstuff but it held a true line at speed over the rough down slopes that his bike never would.
Final bit of praise came from one of the lads who said he could not wait to get 20 years older so he would have the knowledge and skill that we had to enable him to ride the hills with the ease that we had shown.
We had pity on them and pointed out that they had just done the 2 hardest hills on the South Downs Way (A trail of 100 miles along the south Downs Ridge) and that we used to struggle on them till we learnt the right lines to miss the bad areas and the knowledge to find the grip when it was bad. Our bikes were also sorted for the terrain with tyres that would grip on the wet chalk and flints and not sink into the deep scree if we had to go through it. We knew the terrain and had been riding it for 20 odd years so knew what to expect.
For the next few miles I had a ride on one of these lightweight modern machines and it was good. Took the group down to our local cafe and the lad that had ridden my bike was shocked at how it handled. It may have been heavier than his bike but it went uphill so easily. Seemed that all of his leg power was going into the back wheel. That old 100mm travel on the front gave him just enough cushioning over the roughstuff but it held a true line at speed over the rough down slopes that his bike never would.
Final bit of praise came from one of the lads who said he could not wait to get 20 years older so he would have the knowledge and skill that we had to enable him to ride the hills with the ease that we had shown.
Tomorrow I will be riding with two of them on MTBs and I know for a fact that I have 20 years on one and 25 on the other. I also know from Strava they are 15 minutes faster on a the 30 mile trail we will be riding. Believe me they learn and then teach.
01-11-14, 07:18 AM
#38
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You guys know there are 21 pound full-suspension bikes, right? That's lighter than some of the road bikes I have.
There are also full suspension bikes with 120+ mm travel in the 25 pound range, amazing stuff. Even full on downhill bikes have come down to under 40 pounds.
Yes, it's fun to tease the clueless young guys and make them struggle to keep up, but as soon as they figure it out, get some miles in the bank and some good training, forget it.
As much as we like to delude ourselves there is no substitute for a young, healthy body.
There are also full suspension bikes with 120+ mm travel in the 25 pound range, amazing stuff. Even full on downhill bikes have come down to under 40 pounds.
Yes, it's fun to tease the clueless young guys and make them struggle to keep up, but as soon as they figure it out, get some miles in the bank and some good training, forget it.
As much as we like to delude ourselves there is no substitute for a young, healthy body.
01-11-14, 09:02 AM
#39
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I was dropped at the top of a steep hill after a good, hot 35mi stretch on the fogline. I had slowed for recovery and a coast down the backside when out of nowhere came a young guy with sandals, backpack and no shirt, hammering away with a Giant MTB. I determined to hang with him and refused to granny gear the next big hill. On the next downhill I caught him with my road gearing. As we approached the flats I snuck up to him and said hi. He freaked out. Took me 4 miles but I caught him. It was then the young feller realized he needed a roadbike. He probably reasoned that if an "old man" (56) on a roadbike could zip along, how much faster he could be on one at his age.
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01-11-14, 07:54 PM
#40
Senior Member
On one of my regular club rides, the group was acting squirrely, so I rode off the front at my own pace. Either there was a little tailwind or I was having the ride of my life, but I was really screaming down the road on the final stretch. I caught up with a small paceline: three college-aged kids on slick-equipped mountain bikes. They were doing 26 mph as I pulled alongside, smiled, and told them they were doing a GREAT job considering the bikes, then resumed my (faster) cruise. You should have seen their eyes bug out! One of them put his head down and gave about three pedal strokes before it was obvious he didn't stand a chance of hanging with me. Turned out, those three were on the MSU cycling club (not a sanctioned sport at that time.)
01-11-14, 09:38 PM
#41
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been cycling for as long as i can remember and have recently started riding with a couple of twenty somethings from work,mostly mountian biking. they all call my trusty hardtail a tank and are forever talking about how many grams they shaved off their bike weight. but when i took them out riding they couldnt even get up the lightweight hills i took them on. wait till i dust them on some "real hills" told them bike doesnt matter as much as strong legs and tecnique.
01-12-14, 05:22 AM
#42
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The animosity towards other bicyclists, by bicyclists that dont ride exactly like they do, on this list is mind boggling to me. I respect every person on any kind of bicycle doing any kind of riding.
In Detroit during the warmer season every monday they have the largest weekly ride in the country, called the slow roll. Has as many as 2000 riders on some Monday's. Every kind of bike and every kind of rider is there. Everyone is having a great time and everyone respects everyone else no matter what kind of rider they are. It is really kewl.
In Detroit during the warmer season every monday they have the largest weekly ride in the country, called the slow roll. Has as many as 2000 riders on some Monday's. Every kind of bike and every kind of rider is there. Everyone is having a great time and everyone respects everyone else no matter what kind of rider they are. It is really kewl.
01-12-14, 07:21 AM
#43
Beicwyr Hapus
Animosity? I must have been reading a different thread.
I can see nothing nasty in anything written, just some light-hearted banter, often self-deprecating.
I can see nothing nasty in anything written, just some light-hearted banter, often self-deprecating.
01-12-14, 02:46 PM
#44
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We cyclists tend to be an arrogant and twitchy bunch. Animosity? Nah.
01-12-14, 04:11 PM
#45
just keep riding
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01-12-14, 04:43 PM
#46
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https://www.bicycling.com/mountainbik...mountain-bikes
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01-12-14, 04:49 PM
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been cycling for as long as i can remember and have recently started riding with a couple of twenty somethings from work,mostly mountian biking. they all call my trusty hardtail a tank and are forever talking about how many grams they shaved off their bike weight. but when i took them out riding they couldnt even get up the lightweight hills i took them on. wait till i dust them on some "real hills" told them bike doesnt matter as much as strong legs and tecnique.
[h=2][/h]
01-12-14, 05:10 PM
#48
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01-13-14, 03:01 AM
#49
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Don't you love it when you get an "attaboy" from a 20 year old ?
01-13-14, 05:01 PM
#50
Full Member
Be crafty. I use these 35 -45 year olds to suck me along. I can do a 60 -70 mile ride and be less tired than riding shorter and solo. I just tell them I am over 70 and they don't make me pull thru.
