Tell me why I shouldn't be scared of dying on the road ...
#201
What happened?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 8,050
Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times
in
255 Posts
The first homeowners violated the HOA gardening clause, got kicked out of town and one of their kids killed the other, it's all downhill from there.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
#202
Junior Member
I've often heard it said that, "Nobody lives forever". That doesn't mean it's Ok to be stupid. It's simply an acknowledgement that while there are things you can do to tip the odds in your favor, you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns.
Number one for me is a situation I've mentally tagged as the "meat grinder". If there is much more than a 15 mph spread between your velocity and the rest of traffic, you need to pick some better traffic. Lower relative velocity not only gives you more time to notice a developing problem, it greatly improves your odds of finding a way to deal with it. If you don't want to become sausage, stay out of the meat grinder.
Second and almost as important is to get your rig set up for the riding you do. Both of my bikes right now are Japan surplus mama-chari. They are a pretty good fit as-is because most of my runs are short trip in city traffic. Both have 3 spd IGH that offer a wide enough ratio to cover how I ride but the range needs to be adjusted downward. Simply having the ability to shift while stopped is priceless in heavy traffic but I need a lower first more than an open road high. The two things most likely to save my butt are better braking and reserve acceleration. Chances of serious injury increase as the square of the impact velocity. Slowing down even a little bit improves things a whole lot. The best thing though is not to be at the scene of the accident. Having the ability to deliver a sudden burst of speed can get you out from between two vehicles under your own power, rather than getting squeezed out like a watermelon seed.
Number one for me is a situation I've mentally tagged as the "meat grinder". If there is much more than a 15 mph spread between your velocity and the rest of traffic, you need to pick some better traffic. Lower relative velocity not only gives you more time to notice a developing problem, it greatly improves your odds of finding a way to deal with it. If you don't want to become sausage, stay out of the meat grinder.
Second and almost as important is to get your rig set up for the riding you do. Both of my bikes right now are Japan surplus mama-chari. They are a pretty good fit as-is because most of my runs are short trip in city traffic. Both have 3 spd IGH that offer a wide enough ratio to cover how I ride but the range needs to be adjusted downward. Simply having the ability to shift while stopped is priceless in heavy traffic but I need a lower first more than an open road high. The two things most likely to save my butt are better braking and reserve acceleration. Chances of serious injury increase as the square of the impact velocity. Slowing down even a little bit improves things a whole lot. The best thing though is not to be at the scene of the accident. Having the ability to deliver a sudden burst of speed can get you out from between two vehicles under your own power, rather than getting squeezed out like a watermelon seed.
#203
Mother Nature's Son
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sussex County, Delaware
Posts: 3,111
Bikes: 2014 Orbea Avant MD30, 2004 Airborne Zeppelin TI, 2003 Lemond Poprad, 2001 Lemond Tourmalet, 2014? Soma Smoothie
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 838 Post(s)
Liked 1,414 Times
in
801 Posts
Getting up in the morning and facing the day is dangerous. Safety is an illusion. In my opinion, fearing death is pretty much senseless. It happens to everyone at some point.
#204
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,384
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times
in
171 Posts
"When does Hardcore bbecome Stupid"
Hardcore becomes stupid when it becomes dangerous.
Hardcore becomes stupid when anything going wrong becomes a safety problem instead of an inconvenience. ...
Hardcore becomes stupid when minor errors in judgment become safety issues....
In each case, it's not just theweather [traffic] that makes it hardcore or stupid, it's the degree of preparation and knowledge used...
Hardcore becomes stupid when it becomes dangerous.
Hardcore becomes stupid when anything going wrong becomes a safety problem instead of an inconvenience. ...
Hardcore becomes stupid when minor errors in judgment become safety issues....
In each case, it's not just the
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 08-08-19 at 10:38 PM.
#205
What happened?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 8,050
Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times
in
255 Posts
You're afraid of death in general. Nobody really relishes it (at least it's not sane), but it will happen and you're just going to to have to find a way to get past this and accept that there is nothing you can do about it, no matter how it occurs.
I used to have panic attacks about it before going to sleep and I still have some trepidation about it...I have faced near-death a few times in my life and I fought against it. Still, you have to continue to live, be vigilant and realize that it will happen, but why let it rule your life?
Take each day and make it yours.
I used to have panic attacks about it before going to sleep and I still have some trepidation about it...I have faced near-death a few times in my life and I fought against it. Still, you have to continue to live, be vigilant and realize that it will happen, but why let it rule your life?
Take each day and make it yours.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
#206
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,947
Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2281 Post(s)
Liked 1,710 Times
in
936 Posts
There's no way in hell I'm riding on bike paths! What I love(d) about cycling was the exploration, the speed, the remoteness of country roads. And yes, we are all going to die, and it's not something I'm worried about, except here (but I still have ridden a bit this year and enjoyed it).
As far as exploring remote areas, I live not far from a rail trail which is fun to ride, and you do go through some very remote areas. The great thing is that, except where it intersects a road or a street here or there, you don't have to worry about traffic.
#207
Sophomore Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,690
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 1,057 Times
in
631 Posts
In a nutshell, they're not much different than riding on the sidewalk, with its perils, annoyances, and inherent limitations. If you like riding on sidewalks, you'll LOVE bike paths. Safety-wise, I'll take the shoulder of a freeway any day over a bike path.
#208
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times
in
5,053 Posts
That varies wildly from path to path. My evening ride after work is a 24.5 mile round trip on a local MUP which I average 19+ mph solo on (with a timer that doesn't auto-pause for the 8 or so intersections each way). I'm hitting speeds in the high 20s, and I'll go for several miles without seeing another human (deer, turkeys, turtles, pheasants, aggressive groundhogs, OTOH). Try doing that on a sidewalk. I, like you, love riding on the shoulder of a highway because of the long uninterrupted high speeds, but this path ride basically gives me the same thing in a location close to the office.
Now if you take the Charles River Greenway through Waltham and Watertown, I wouldn't ride that again on a bet. I feel rude riding anything over 13 mph on that path.
If you're going point-to-point in a major metro area, you also have to consider what the alternative to the path is. If the roads around the path have a bunch of buses and stoplights and stop signs at busy intersections, frankly the road riding might seem more like sidewalk riding to me than riding on a MUP where at least I can maintain a steady pace.
My sense is that the people who automatically turn their noses up at all paths miss out on a lot of really good riding.
#209
Sophomore Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,690
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 1,057 Times
in
631 Posts
(sorry, couldn't resist)
That varies wildly from path to path. My evening ride after work is a 24.5 mile round trip on a local MUP which I average 19+ mph solo on (with a timer that doesn't auto-pause for the 8 or so intersections each way). I'm hitting speeds in the high 20s, and I'll go for several miles without seeing another human (deer, turkeys, turtles, pheasants, aggressive groundhogs, OTOH). Try doing that on a sidewalk. I, like you, love riding on the shoulder of a highway because of the long uninterrupted high speeds, but this path ride basically gives me the same thing in a location close to the office.
Now if you take the Charles River Greenway through Waltham and Watertown, I wouldn't ride that again on a bet. I feel rude riding anything over 13 mph on that path.
If you're going point-to-point in a major metro area, you also have to consider what the alternative to the path is. If the roads around the path have a bunch of buses and stoplights and stop signs at busy intersections, frankly the road riding might seem more like sidewalk riding to me than riding on a MUP where at least I can maintain a steady pace.
My sense is that the people who automatically turn their noses up at all paths miss out on a lot of really good riding.
Now if you take the Charles River Greenway through Waltham and Watertown, I wouldn't ride that again on a bet. I feel rude riding anything over 13 mph on that path.
If you're going point-to-point in a major metro area, you also have to consider what the alternative to the path is. If the roads around the path have a bunch of buses and stoplights and stop signs at busy intersections, frankly the road riding might seem more like sidewalk riding to me than riding on a MUP where at least I can maintain a steady pace.
My sense is that the people who automatically turn their noses up at all paths miss out on a lot of really good riding.
I don't live in Portland Oregon though (sadly) and all of the bike paths I have seen in various small towns in California are of the former variety.
#210
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times
in
1,422 Posts
Sounds like you need to ride some different bike paths. Most of the ones I ride are nothing even remotely close to riding on a sidewalk.
#211
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times
in
5,053 Posts
(sorry, couldn't resist)
Could be a "rural vs. urban" thing. When a small town of 30,000 people decides to build a bike path, it's gonna be a poorly-thought out joke, built mainly to use up extra money at the end of the fiscal year and for PR purposes. But when Portland Oregon spends millions on a 73 mile path along the Columbia River Gorge, that's a little different.
I don't live in Portland Oregon though (sadly) and all of the bike paths I have seen in various small towns in California are of the former variety.
Really rural paths are often unpaved, so that can be a whole other kettle of fish, but it also is nothing like riding on a sidewalk.
#212
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,947
Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2281 Post(s)
Liked 1,710 Times
in
936 Posts
Frankly, if someone built a long, paved bike path around here, I'd be happy to "ride on a sidewalk." But that's not going to happen. Best we've got is the rail trail which is hard packed limestone. And the closest end of that is about an hour's drive from my house.
Likes For Milton Keynes:
#214
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,384
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times
in
171 Posts
There's no way in hell I'm riding on bike paths! What I love(d) about cycling was the exploration, the speed, the remoteness of country roads.
And yes, we are all going to die, and it's not something I'm worried about, except here (but I still have ridden a bit this year and enjoyed it)
.
And yes, we are all going to die, and it's not something I'm worried about, except here (but I still have ridden a bit this year and enjoyed it)
What's wrong with bike paths? I ask as someone who lives in an area with very few bike paths.
As far as exploring remote areas, I live not far from a rail trail which is fun to ride, and you do go through some very remote areas. The great thing is that, except where it intersects a road or a street here or there, you don't have to worry about traffic.
As far as exploring remote areas, I live not far from a rail trail which is fun to ride, and you do go through some very remote areas. The great thing is that, except where it intersects a road or a street here or there, you don't have to worry about traffic.
In a nutshell, they're not much different than riding on the sidewalk, with its perils, annoyances, and inherent limitations. If you like riding on sidewalks, you'll LOVE bike paths.
Safety-wise, I'll take the shoulder of a freeway any day over a bike path.
Safety-wise, I'll take the shoulder of a freeway any day over a bike path.
That varies wildly from path to path. My evening ride after work is a 24.5 mile round trip on a local MUP which I average 19+ mph solo ...Try doing that on a sidewalk
I, like you, love riding on the shoulder of a highway because of the long uninterrupted high speeds, but this path ride basically gives me the same thing in a location close to the office...
If you're going point-to-point in a major metro area, you also have to consider what the alternative to the path is…
My sense is that the people who automatically turn their noses up at all paths miss out on a lot of really good riding.
I, like you, love riding on the shoulder of a highway because of the long uninterrupted high speeds, but this path ride basically gives me the same thing in a location close to the office...
If you're going point-to-point in a major metro area, you also have to consider what the alternative to the path is…
My sense is that the people who automatically turn their noses up at all paths miss out on a lot of really good riding.
All my cycling as a decades-long, year-round commuter and occasional centurian in Metro Boston ranges from dense urban, to suburban, to exurban, but no rural.
I'm goal-oriented, be it miles or destinations, so I take the Road as it comes, to satisfy my Goal.
I'm goal-oriented, be it miles or destinations, so I take the Road as it comes, to satisfy my Goal.
… many of the segregationists have been making their public case by convincing everyone that cycling is too dangerous to be done anywhere except on a segregated facility.
Not surprisingly, this has an impact in terms of how many people are willing to even try riding a bike since there is no way to get anywhere in the US without riding on a road
Not surprisingly, this has an impact in terms of how many people are willing to even try riding a bike since there is no way to get anywhere in the US without riding on a road
…Last week I visited the family in Macomb County. IMO, that is some of the nastiest road riding I have ever encountered.
The main roads, to get anywhere, are six lane concrete slabs with bumps about every 20 feet, and many cracks and potholes especially on the right, with no shoulders, and heavy, zooming traffic with little patience for (slow) cyclists.
Even as an experienced urban commuter, I will often flee to the sidewalks, little used by pedestrians out in suburbia...
Now actually those suburban counties like Macomb and Oakland have developed some nice, long MUPS, but the prevailing attitude seems to be that bikes are not ”real” transportation, so one usually drives to a MUP to ride the bike; and the MUPS are though rural countryside, with no defined, or non-recreational [utilitarian "useful"] destination...
The main roads, to get anywhere, are six lane concrete slabs with bumps about every 20 feet, and many cracks and potholes especially on the right, with no shoulders, and heavy, zooming traffic with little patience for (slow) cyclists.
Even as an experienced urban commuter, I will often flee to the sidewalks, little used by pedestrians out in suburbia...
Now actually those suburban counties like Macomb and Oakland have developed some nice, long MUPS, but the prevailing attitude seems to be that bikes are not ”real” transportation, so one usually drives to a MUP to ride the bike; and the MUPS are though rural countryside, with no defined, or non-recreational [utilitarian "useful"] destination...
Boston as a compact East Coast urban environment has a nice set of bikepaths that connect the downtown area through the midtown as it were, and out to the residential neighborhoods and inner suburbs, providing utilitarian byways for cycle commuting or recreation, though these paths are not completely connected…
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 08-10-19 at 10:17 AM.
#215
Full Member
I ride 50 miles a day, bike paths are out. I'm not dodging dogs and fixing flats from broken glass. I live about eight miles from the city and ride in the opposite direction on rural roads. I do have to ride on some highways with widely paved breakdown lanes. I'm worried about what comes from behind even though I have good mirrors on all my bikes. I don't really dwell on it because when your number is up it's up.
I'm trying to find Go Pro cameras with chips that will restart the cycle after the time runs out. I need cameras that last 3 hours plus. At least then my wife will know what took me out.
I'm trying to find Go Pro cameras with chips that will restart the cycle after the time runs out. I need cameras that last 3 hours plus. At least then my wife will know what took me out.
#216
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,579
Bikes: 06 Lemond Reno, 98 GT Timberline mtn.bike
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 421 Post(s)
Liked 689 Times
in
430 Posts
Personally, I try to stay off the roads, especially around where I live. But I do see riders on them (usually groups-so safer). I live in a semi-rural area, 2 lane roads, often little to no shoulder, tree lined (so lots of shadows), with a fair amount of curves with vehicles traveling 45-55MPH. I've never seen a rider hit (nor would I want to), but I have witnessed some vehicles passing what I would consider too close for comfort. If I were to ride on these roads (I won't), it would have to be with a group, and then I'd be wary. But then again, I'm not the youngest rider, so my risk acceptance is down from what it used to be!
#217
20+mph Commuter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 7,491
Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Lowside, a folding bike, and a beater.
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1422 Post(s)
Liked 315 Times
in
210 Posts
Pickup trucks are larger than ever, phones and other distractions are the norm these days, and everybody is drunk, smoking pot, or hooked on opiates behind the wheel - depending on where you live. OF COURSE you should be concerned. The only question now is "What are you going to do about it?" This is an individual decision only YOU can make. If you are young, single, and care-free your thought process might be different than if you have a wife and a few small children to care for. So many factors to consider.
Your options fall somewhere between throwing caution to the wind, or no cycling on roadways ever again. Or stick to paths and off road maybe.
Caution to the wind -------- everything in between ------- never cycle on a roadway.
In my early 30s I biked across the USA five times fully self contained. I would have preferred dying to staying home. When I hit 60 my mindset changed and I sold nearly all the bikes and got a new job one mile from my house, in a large park, that I generally skate or walk to. My bike is for nasty weather only and a few errands. I never ride a bike for fun - only necessity (I do not own a car). I do my best to use roadways that have some room to spare when forced to cycle around traffic.
Would you dive into a pool full of well fed sharks that happen to be distracted, blind, and stupid? Enjoy Russian roulette much? It's really up to you. I have lived at both ends of the spectrum and was happy at those times with my decisions. Obviously I lived to talk about it.
Good luck! I am not voting on what you should do. Just spreading experiences.
#218
Senior Member
I can accept that the oceans are full of sharks and the forests are full of wild animals.
But the streets are filled with what we hope are civilized human-beings who have all taken driving lessons. Why do we also accept that they are comparable to wild animals?
But the streets are filled with what we hope are civilized human-beings who have all taken driving lessons. Why do we also accept that they are comparable to wild animals?
#219
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Looney Tunes, IL
Posts: 7,398
Bikes: Wabi Special FG, Raleigh Roper, Nashbar AL-1, Miyata One Hundred, '70 Schwinn Lemonator and More!!
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1549 Post(s)
Liked 941 Times
in
504 Posts
So much fear over an activity that statistics not only show is relatively safe, but actually adds years to our lives.
#220
2-Wheeled Fool
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,486
Bikes: Surly Ogre, Brompton
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked 677 Times
in
457 Posts
And its also bad luck to talk about it. For forty years, I rode a motorcycle. I've always been on two wheels. I've ridden my motorcycles all over North America, UK, Europe, and Northern Africa. Never had even a close call because my policy was to always ride like I was invisible, and NEVER tempt fate by talking about crashes. Bad juju. Then, in 2007 I had a crash which broke 13 bones, and gave me traumatic brain injury. I suppose it all caught up to me. I still do not talk about crashing or dying or w t f - ever. Its a waste of time and only incites anxiety and fear of the unknown. People need to nut up.
#221
Professional amateur
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Ga.
Posts: 665
Bikes: Does a Big Wheel count ?
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times
in
89 Posts
On a happier note, I did my usual 30-40 miles today, and nobody flew past me, nearly taking the skin off my elbow, revving their engine and spraying me with exhaust, or shouting obscenities at me !
"So I got that going for me! "
"So I got that going for me! "
Likes For Brocephus:
#222
Quidam Bike Super Hero
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Stone Mountain, GA (Metro Atlanta, East)
Posts: 1,150
Bikes: 1995 Trek 800 Sport, aka, "CamelTrek"
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked 415 Times
in
282 Posts
Mostly good ride yesterday. Ready, at the intersection, to make a left turn, signaled... car in front of me signaled his left intention. I was ready when the gashole behind him pulled around and gunned it across the intersection. So, instead of being plowed by a selfish twit; I modified and he got an earful of Airzound and verbage!
You gotta drive for them too....
You gotta drive for them too....
#223
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 50 Times
in
25 Posts
Ii stick to the paved bike trail because a noticeable percentage of the drivers around here have a real attitude. Unfortunately, I have one too. So, avoiding city streets makes everything better. bk
#224
Senior Member