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Identifying old bottom bracket and correct tool

Old 02-05-18, 09:00 PM
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Identifying old bottom bracket and correct tool

I have a bike that's a mish-mash of parts most of which are from the early eighties. The bottom bracket on the non-drive side has a lock ring with six notches. What tool can I use to remove this? It needs to be rebuilt. On the lock ring it says "Nikyo Made in Japan 1.37 x 24T". I'm assuming that the 1.37 x 24T is a diameter and tpi from what I can gather. Has anyone heard of Nikyo? Would the Hozan C-205 unlock this?
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Old 02-05-18, 09:10 PM
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That Hozan tool should work. If all else fails, a nail set and a hammer would work, but not as well as the correct tool. Looks similar to the Sugino tool I used in the past.
Yes, that is the BB threading. Gonna replace with cartridge BB?
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Old 02-05-18, 11:53 PM
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Or maybe a Park Tools HCW-5?

If the notches are "buggered up", a larger water pump pliers.
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Old 02-06-18, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by kjaioqhbkqb View Post
I'm assuming that the 1.37 x 24T is a diameter and tpi from what I can gather.
Exactly correct. That is a British Standard Cycle (BSC) thread.

The Hozan C-205 "Rock Ring Wrench" should have no problem with that. Even better are the Hozan C-203 pliers.
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Old 02-06-18, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by kjaioqhbkqb View Post
The bottom bracket on the non-drive side has a lock ring with six notches. What tool can I use to remove this? ... Would the Hozan C-205 unlock this?
A lockring wrench like a Park Tool HCW-5 or Hozan C-205 would be an appropriate tool for the lockring. When assembling and/or adjusting the bottom bracket, you’ll also need something to turn/hold the bearing cup. The cup will have some type of tool interface machined into it — maybe a slot, a hex head, or a series of holes for a pin spanner like a Park Tool SPA-1.

Originally Posted by kjaioqhbkqb View Post
On the lock ring it says "Nikyo Made in Japan 1.37 x 24T". I'm assuming that the 1.37 x 24T is a diameter and tpi from what I can gather.
Yes, and that diameter & threading identify the unit as a common English-threaded bottom bracket.
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Old 02-06-18, 07:05 AM
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@JanMM Thanks. My concern with the tools was that I wasn't sure if the diameter needed to be an exact match. But I just looked at the Hozan website and they show the C-205 in use and in the picture the tool has a smaller diameter than the lock ring, so I guess it isn't a problem. ... Probably I'm going to replace the bearings and just pick up another square taper of the same kind through eBay or something. I'm not sure that I'll switch to a cartridge. I like the old stuff. I started riding a few hundred miles a month and I'm now discovering all of these issues coming up for maintenance though. Not sure if bearings in a cartridge etc. would give me more life down there.

@Ghrumpy Ah, yes. The pliers look more universal.

@SkyDog75 Thank you. I see the series of holes now. I have a Park spanner wrench for my SunTour Perfect freewheel. I'll check that it fits the bottom bracket holes too.
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Old 02-06-18, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Ghrumpy View Post
Even better are the Hozan C-203 pliers.
Or the VAR #16:



If you're on a budget, a standard set of slip-jaw pliers can be converted into a serviceable copy of the Hozan pliers:

DIY Lockring Pliers: 3 Steps (with Pictures)
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Old 02-06-18, 08:42 AM
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These are my tools for old bottom brackets. If you replace, you'll need to remove the lock ring and the fixed cup. Your fixed cup is prob left-hand thread. And you prob need a new tool for the lock rings on the new BB. The pin spanners are for adjusting the left cup, you don't need them if you're switching to a cartridge BB. I cant find any part #'s, standard Sugino tools. Green spanner is a Park. Google Sheldon Brown bottom brackets
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Old 02-06-18, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by grizzly59 View Post
Your fixed cup is prob left-hand thread.
No, your fixed (drive side) cup is certainly left-hand threaded. All English threaded bottom brackets have left-handed threads on the drive side of the bottom bracket.
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Old 02-06-18, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Or the VAR #16:

Well, yes, that's the Cadillac of lockring tools.

Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
If you're on a budget, a standard set of slip-jaw pliers can be converted into a serviceable copy of the Hozan pliers:

DIY Lockring Pliers: 3 Steps (with Pictures)
Dang. Wish I'd thought of that before I bought my VAR. (OK, I would have bought the VAR anyway.)
The nice thing about the Hozan pliers is that they have rounded jaws, not flat, so they do less damage and grip round things better, should you have to resort to that method.
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Old 02-07-18, 09:28 AM
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My Campy lock ring tool works pretty nicely. Before that my primary tool was the Park lockring spanner and it was average at best. I frequently used a small metal punch and a hammer to loosen the lockring to avoid stripping it with the Park tool.
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Old 02-07-18, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Spaghetti Legs View Post
My Campy lock ring tool works pretty nicely. Before that my primary tool was the Park lockring spanner and it was average at best. I frequently used a small metal punch and a hammer to loosen the lockring to avoid stripping it with the Park tool.
As far as lockring spanners, go, the Campy is great because it engages five notches instead of one. But it doesn't fit all lockrings; some are too big. And some lockrings have more or fewer than six notches.
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Old 02-07-18, 06:30 PM
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I went with the Hozan C-205. It's fine. The radius of the tool doesn't exactly match the radius of the lock ring but it's functional.

My Park spanner wrench for my freewheel also works for the adjustable cup on the non-drive / lock ring side.

Now I need a fixed cup wrench. Hozan, VAR, ...?
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Old 02-07-18, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kjaioqhbkqb View Post
Now I need a fixed cup wrench. Hozan, VAR, ...?
...or a 15” Crescent wrench, among other possibilities.
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Old 02-08-18, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kjaioqhbkqb View Post
Now I need a fixed cup wrench. Hozan, VAR, ...?
What does the fixed cup look like? If it follows the Campagnolo standard, one of the aforementioned Park or Sugino hook spanners will have a fixed cup opening opposite the hook.



Otherwise, the Sheldon Brown universal tool is an option:


Tool Tips--Bottom Bracket Cups

Or the professional version of the Sheldon Brown tool:


https://www.efficientvelo.com/produc...b-cup-remover/
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Old 02-08-18, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kjaioqhbkqb View Post

Now I need a fixed cup wrench. Hozan, VAR, ...?
...unless you plan on replacing it with something else (like a new complete BB unit), you're well advised to clean it well while leaving it in place. If you simply must remove it for purposes of replacement, the Hozan fixed cup removal tool is about as bombproof as you can get in this department, but it's not cheap.

You can get pretty good results in most cases by through bolting some fender washers (big ones) on both sides of the BB so that the ones on the fixed cup side hold one of those Campy type fixed cup wrenches on the flats, with just a teeny bit of play. This holds the wrench onto the cup so it won't jump off when you hit it with a mallet or a dead blow hammer....the poor person's version of an impact wrench. Use penetrant on both sides of the BB shell/cup interface.

There's a photo of the setup somewhere in the tips and tricks thread, which you might get lucky and fine with Google.
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Old 02-09-18, 02:20 AM
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I think the fixed cup is 36mm.
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Old 02-11-18, 08:37 PM
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@JohnDThompson @3alarmer The fixed cup has flats spaced 36mm apart.

Now that I have the adjustable cup off I can see what's happened. The adjustable cup is cracked. When I peer inside the 68mm bottom bracket shell I can see that the fixed cup is cracked too around the race. Both are pitted.

The black spindle says 3R Boron J-6 and is longer on the drive side to accommodate the three chain rings I think. The overall length of the spindle excluding the threads is about 128.5mm. The cups/races on the spindle are pitted and worn unevenly which is evident from the silver path the bearings traced out.

The 1/4" bearings (with huge flat spots) fell easily out of the cages, one of which was bent oblong.

Can this spindle be easily replaced? Does the 3R Boron J-6 indicate the sizing including the sizing of the longer drive side?

I like parts to be serviceable, so I prefer to rebuild here with same parts versus purchasing a disposable bottom bracket.
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Old 02-11-18, 09:06 PM
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"3R Boron J-6" doesn't follow typical spindle markings, so replacing it will be a matter of taking a number of measurements and matching them against other spindles:



Good luck!
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Old 02-11-18, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kjaioqhbkqb View Post
.......The black spindle says 3R Boron J-6 and is longer on the drive side to accommodate the three chain rings I think.......
3R is the size code-
129mm long w/42 & 35mm offsets. (aka really long)

The "B" dimension in John's pic is 52mm.
Possibly the N3U will still be long enough for your cranks to clear the stays AND the FDER can move in a bit more.
Remember, you can swap ends.
You MUST keep to a "3" series. 5 or 7 or?? will not work. The "B" dimension is different.
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Old 02-11-18, 09:52 PM
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@Bill Kapaun The table helps. Thanks. Are these spindles still being made? What about the adjustable and fixed cups? The brand I had apparently was Nikyo.
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Old 02-11-18, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kjaioqhbkqb View Post
@Bill Kapaun The table helps. Thanks. Are these spindles still being made? What about the adjustable and fixed cups? The brand I had apparently was Nikyo.
Did you think to poke around the site where I linked the spindles?
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Old 02-12-18, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by kjaioqhbkqb View Post
[MENTION=20548]I like parts to be serviceable, so I prefer to rebuild here with same parts versus purchasing a disposable bottom bracket.
Originally Posted by kjaioqhbkqb View Post
@Bill Kapaun The table helps. Thanks. Are these spindles still being made? What about the adjustable and fixed cups? The brand I had apparently was Nikyo.
....I know this will seem counter intuitive to you, but I will mention it anyway. The day of readily available loose ball bottom bracket parts such as the various spindles and cups you need to accomplish rebuilding with similar parts is long past. It was hard to do even over at the bike co-op, where we had a whole box of old used spindles and miscellaneous cups.

The world of available parts has moved on to sealed unit BB replacements. In your case, do yourself a big favor and when you get that fixed cup out, make certain you measure the width of the BB shell, the length of the spindle, and understand the threading standard you require for the cups. Then order a readily available square taper BB replacement sealed unit (don't get the cheapest one, but you can get good quality in the 20-40 dollar range), repair your bicycle, and move on with riding it.

That's what I would do. In fact, I have done it a number of times. I don't even think anyone is manufacturing loose ball BB spindles or cups any more (but I might be wrong).
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Old 02-13-18, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
....I know this will seem counter intuitive to you, but I will mention it anyway. The day of readily available loose ball bottom bracket parts such as the various spindles and cups you need to accomplish rebuilding with similar parts is long past. It was hard to do even over at the bike co-op, where we had a whole box of old used spindles and miscellaneous cups.

The world of available parts has moved on to sealed unit BB replacements. In your case, do yourself a big favor and when you get that fixed cup out, make certain you measure the width of the BB shell, the length of the spindle, and understand the threading standard you require for the cups. Then order a readily available square taper BB replacement sealed unit (don't get the cheapest one, but you can get good quality in the 20-40 dollar range), repair your bicycle, and move on with riding it.

That's what I would do. In fact, I have done it a number of times. I don't even think anyone is manufacturing loose ball BB spindles or cups any more (but I might be wrong).
This would be easier now and easier in the future.
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Old 03-20-18, 04:15 PM
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Thank you all. I decided to have the LBS remove the fixed cup for me. Tange still makes the spindles and cups I needed according to the LBS and so I went with that. The result is perfect.

Now that I've been through this I'm less hesitant to try something different. So next time I'll probably switch to a sealed unit.
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