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Fouled Steerer Threads - Richard Sachs

Old 07-10-20, 02:27 PM
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Phil_gretz
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Fouled Steerer Threads - Richard Sachs

Okay, I need help from the collective wisdom. Late 70s Sachs frame recently repainted and entrusted to me for the reassembly. Whoever handled the fork before me buggered up the steerer initial threads.

Last edited by Phil_gretz; 07-10-20 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 07-10-20, 02:30 PM
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Campy Headset...

with aluminum threaded parts.

It's all beautiful stuff...
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Old 07-10-20, 02:33 PM
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The frame and fork are beautiful...

and I don't want to screw this up. It's for a friend.


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Old 07-10-20, 02:35 PM
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So, What's next?

I cannot force aluminum threaded parts over those buggered threads. I need to remove the fouling. Chase with a steel headset nut? I'm frozen with fear...

Help?
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Old 07-10-20, 02:42 PM
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My shop has a die for threading steerer tubes, https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=44333

Your best bet is a shop that has been around for a while, or a Co-Op that works on old bikes.
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Old 07-10-20, 02:52 PM
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Get a small triangular file and carefully chase the threads, it will work. Then thread new nut on. If you have a large steel nut that would be good to run down the threads on after using the file. A die that size is likely to be expensive.

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Old 07-10-20, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by quindecima View Post
Get a small triangular file and carefully chase the threads, it will work. Then thread new nut on. If you have a large steel nut that would be good to run down the threads on after using the file.
Yeah, even home depot has a decent little needle file set. That would be my second choice after the dedicated die.
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Old 07-10-20, 03:36 PM
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I'd go with a little meticulous work with a needle file set ..the Swiss make the best.
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Old 07-10-20, 03:55 PM
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I'd go with careful, patient file work; the problem with a die is getting it started properly aligned with the existing threads. Get it wrong and you have made the problem a lot worse.
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Old 07-10-20, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by quindecima View Post
Get a small triangular file and carefully chase the threads, it will work. Then thread new nut on. If you have a large steel nut that would be good to run down the threads on after using the file. A die that size is likely to be expensive.
This. Careful, patient, wear cheaters.
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Old 07-10-20, 04:33 PM
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^ I can do this...
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Old 07-10-20, 04:42 PM
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All the guys I respect say the same thing: use a triangular file to chase just those last few threads. Start with the file in a good thread, get it up near where the crud is, then gently see if you can get the crud off. Observe where the file is cutting and repeat. Easy does it.

I would NOT use a die to chase those threads.

BTW, you could also use a thread restoring file (probably a 24 tpi one) as below:


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Old 07-10-20, 07:11 PM
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.
...I have one of those steerer threading die tools from Hozan, that I got when a local shop closed, but I wouldn't break it out for that.
Even if you're not very good with a file, losing the first thread or so is not a big deal, unless your steerer is pretty short for the headset stack height.

So worst case scenario is that you file it down and lose the thread that's damaged, but it clears enough so your headset parts will thread on square.
Whereas if you're not very good with the threading die, you can get into all kinds of trouble.

After the cleanup, I do think I'd run a steel headset race up and down a time or two before I tried the aluminum stuff, just to make sure everything is clean and unobstructed.

You can still get the transfers for a 70's Sachs from his painter, (Joe Bell, I think, if he's still painting stuff). He gets them made up in batches by someone he calls the "Decal Wizard". It can take a while to get them, but they're about the same price as any other decals. He might want a picture of your frame details to ID it as a genuine Sachs. The frame builder is understandably anxious about counterfeiting.
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Old 07-10-20, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
BTW, you could also use a thread restoring file ...
There are *METRIC* thread files too!
METRIC THREAD FILE

EDIT: The advantage of this file is that the adjacent good threads guide the file to restore the damaged ones.

Last edited by sweeks; 07-10-20 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 07-10-20, 07:49 PM
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Richard will sell you correct decals directly once provenance is confirmed. They are not cheap, but they are lovely. And correct.
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Old 07-10-20, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Richard will sell you correct decals directly once provenance is confirmed. They are not cheap, but they are lovely. And correct.
...Mr Sachs is the guy who tol' me to contact Joe Bell. As god is my witness.
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Old 07-10-20, 10:58 PM
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Look I hate to be the bearer of bad news and so sorry that nobody else was brave enough to tell you but the entire frame is trashed and you should send it to me so I can get it to the proper metal recyclers so it doesn't further harm the planet or get anyone killed. I work with some good recycling centers that make sure deadly frames and headsets like that don't wind up in the wrong hands and kill again.

Tell your friend I am saving their life but know I am not a hero for doing this just a regular schmuck trying to do a little good.
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Old 07-11-20, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
All the guys I respect say the same thing: use a triangular file to chase just those last few threads. Start with the file in a good thread, get it up near where the crud is, then gently see if you can get the crud off. Observe where the file is cutting and repeat. Easy does it.

I would NOT use a die to chase those threads.

BTW, you could also use a thread restoring file (probably a 24 tpi one) as below:


These Nicholson thread restorers are excellent for doing what you need. Just make sure you match the thread pitch. The damage on your fork is minor and should be easy to resolve.
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Old 07-11-20, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
These Nicholson thread restorers are excellent for doing what you need. Just make sure you match the thread pitch. The damage on your fork is minor and should be easy to resolve.
Like anything else, they can more quickly dig you into a deeper hole if not used correctly. I think that patience and a light touch with a threesquare, pippin, or crossing pattern file is the best approach for the OPs issue. https://www.gesswein.com/c-136-swiss...and-files.aspx
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Old 07-12-20, 09:56 AM
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I've had mixed luck with files for jobs like that. A thread chase is risky because you first need to thread it on. With a screwed up first thread there is a high chance of cross threading.

With the picture you have a pointed awl might help you reshape that first thread. Just drag it though the root of the thread

Don't know that I would use a thread restoring file for just the top thread.

Like someone else said if you have sufficient thread engagement you can generally afford to lose the first thread or so. I have a small belt sander used for sharpening knives. With a light touch and fine grit you can probably *taper* off that first thread so you can get to the clean one below it. I would only do that after cleaning it up with the awl.

Excellent read

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...hread-concepts

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Old 07-12-20, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
All the guys I respect say the same thing: use a triangular file to chase just those last few threads. Start with the file in a good thread, get it up near where the crud is, then gently see if you can get the crud off. Observe where the file is cutting and repeat. Easy does it.

I would NOT use a die to chase those threads.

BTW, you could also use a thread restoring file (probably a 24 tpi one) as below:






..


NB: Each is 4 sided, + double ended, so 8 different thread pitches on one tool.
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Old 07-12-20, 04:00 PM
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Like others said, clean up with needle file, and run a steel nut up and down the thing a few times. It'll be fine.
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Old 07-12-20, 06:15 PM
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I was a tool and die maker by trade and I would strongly suggest not to start fooling around its files and misc. thread files. Find a bike a bike shop with proper head tube die threader to clear up the fork. I work as a mill right as well and still it would be a last choice to start fooling around with a needle file.
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Old 07-12-20, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by velopig View Post
I was a tool and die maker by trade and I would strongly suggest not to start fooling around its files and misc. thread files. Find a bike a bike shop with proper head tube die threader to clear up the fork. I work as a mill right as well and still it would be a last choice to start fooling around with a needle file.
Personally I'd rather take my chances with my own experience and knowledge than having some 20 something at the LBS who's never seen a threaded headset attempting to run the die over it. From the photos, he basically has to clean up the first thread and kind of make a higbee cut and he's good to go.
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Old 07-12-20, 06:53 PM
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Isn't it just the first thread that is boogered up? Just file that away with a flat bastard file or lightly touch it on a belt sander with the belt running toward the inside of the tube. A belt sander on a stand would be my preference, then a flat file, then a hand held belt sander. Heck even a strip of emery cloth.

A die will be an issue because this is on the starting thread of the tube. A thread file will be an issue because you don't need to remove any material but that ugly burr on the first thread. You might can get away with a triangular file, but you will be removing material of the thread that is not messed up too. If you use a triangular file, use it like you would a flat file or sanding belt and go across from outside to inside.
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