Go Back  Bike Forums > The Lounge > Coronavirus/COVID-19
Reload this Page >

Covid among youth in Minnesota - protests or reopening?

Notices
Coronavirus/COVID-19 Discussion of the novel coronavirus

Covid among youth in Minnesota - protests or reopening?

Old 07-11-20, 09:27 PM
  #1  
MinnMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 3,255

Bikes: 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1172 Post(s)
Liked 475 Times in 289 Posts
Covid among youth in Minnesota - protests or reopening?

(Please note, this thread is not in P&R. Opinions about the street protests themselves don't belong in this thread)

There has been a great deal of discussion about whether street protests in late May/early June had a noticeable effect on infection rates. Of course, the protests originated in Minnesota and the Twin Cities area saw some of the largest and more sustained street demonstrations. The protests in Minnesota were chiefly from late May into the first week of June. I don't know when the last significant protests were, but perhaps around June 10 or so. To my reading, nobody has identified any definite effect on infection rates here or elsewhere. This is made challenging because other things were happening at the same time - i.e.,in Minnesota, bars and restaurants openned for outdoor eating/drinking on June 1, and restaurants began serving indoors at 50% capacity on June 11.




In mid-June, the infection rate began to rise again, but only for people aged 20-29. All other groups continued to trend down. Was it the protests? Was it the young folk beginng to go to bars and house parties? It's impossible to say for sure - at least with the data I've seen.
MinnMan is offline  
Old 07-11-20, 09:54 PM
  #2  
Trevtassie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Down Under
Posts: 1,596

Bikes: A steel framed 26" off road tourer from a manufacturer who thinks they are cool. Giant Anthem. Trek 720 Multiroad pub bike. 10 kids bikes all under 20". Assorted waifs and unfinished projects.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked 317 Times in 163 Posts
Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
(Please note, this thread is not in P&R. Opinions about the street protests themselves don't belong in this thread)

There has been a great deal of discussion about whether street protests in late May/early June had a noticeable effect on infection rates. Of course, the protests originated in Minnesota and the Twin Cities area saw some of the largest and more sustained street demonstrations. The protests in Minnesota were chiefly from late May into the first week of June. I don't know when the last significant protests were, but perhaps around June 10 or so. To my reading, nobody has identified any definite effect on infection rates here or elsewhere. This is made challenging because other things were happening at the same time - i.e.,in Minnesota, bars and restaurants openned for outdoor eating/drinking on June 1, and restaurants began serving indoors at 50% capacity on June 11.




In mid-June, the infection rate began to rise again, but only for people aged 20-29. All other groups continued to trend down. Was it the protests? Was it the young folk beginng to go to bars and house parties? It's impossible to say for sure - at least with the data I've seen.
Mostly I think it was bars and partying. They were given the impression that it wouldn't infect them... and at that age you still bounce when you hit the ground.
Trevtassie is offline  
Likes For Trevtassie:
Old 07-12-20, 04:21 AM
  #3  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,378

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 183 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3622 Post(s)
Liked 1,152 Times in 764 Posts
Most local health experts where both public protests and re-openings have occurred have said the protests had little or no effect on the spikes in coronavirus positive tests. Photos and videos show many protesters wore masks, as did law enforcement, and being outdoors would have provided air dispersal. That was my impression from our local protests. Wind was typically seasonally strong, providing the dispersal epidemiologists and researchers say reduces the risk.

During the month or so bars and entertainment venues were reopened here in Texas I passed many of those often on bike rides and could see people packed closely together indoors, on patios and socializing and embracing very closely in parking lots, with almost nobody wearing masks. I saw no evidence of any bar, restaurant or patrons observing the recommended guidelines for reduced capacity, social distancing, etc.

Anecdotes from a few younger victims who were hospitalized indicated they believed they contracted the virus during that socializing at bars, restaurants, water parks, etc. Notably this fellow, who died last week at age 37, whose social media posts indicated he began as a skeptic in April, proceeded to party through May and June, and as recently as the night before he died admitted he had underestimated the severity of the virus. Doctors and nurses have shared similar anecdotes about regretful patients, but couldn't identify the patients due to privacy laws. Hopefully Richard Rose's experience, which he publicly shared just before he died, will serve as a cautionary tale for skeptics.

However folks under age 50 are still at low risk of becoming sick or dying. They are still at risk for spreading the virus. So while I can understand my younger family and friends wanting to resume normal life, I won't be socializing with them anytime soon.

If older, more vulnerable people observed those precautions we'd see fewer illnesses and deaths. But many older folks I see, including my neighbors, don't take it seriously either. And they won't until they get sick. Then they'll blame it on some elaborate conspiracy or bogeyman.

Being on the verge of the most vulnerable demographic (I'm 62 with an auto immune disorder, pesky allergies and asthma but pretty fit with a healthy diet), I've been very cautious. No group bike rides since March, and I'd already cut way back on those starting last autumn when I thought I was sick (turned out to be allergies and asthma -- my old inhalers weren't working anymore).

I've stopped visiting some restaurants even for takeout because on the one or two occasions I did visit the employees weren't consistently wearing masks or taking any precautions. So, no more Braum's or burger joints because there's too much indifferent handling of cold foods that cannot be heated -- lettuce and tomatoes on burgers, milk shakes, etc.

However I still pick up from Domino's because they consistently wear masks and pizza generally involves little handling after cooking. It's very hot and boxed immediately, so there's less risk of contamination. Their salads are prepped and sealed elsewhere so I'll occasionally order a salad too.

Other than a couple of pizzas a month, usually after bike rides when I'm too tired to cook, I've cooked at home since March.

My only contact with other people has been for medical appointments. I usually Uber since I don't drive and city buses are too risky. I always self-isolate for a week after medical appointments since hospitals and clinics are fairly high risk environments.
canklecat is online now  
Likes For canklecat:
Old 07-12-20, 04:40 AM
  #4  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,048
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 135 Posts
Honest question - what's the difference? Rather than fomenting the culture war why can we look at it as "being safe" or "not being safe?" There can be safe protests and unsafe protests. Safe reopening and unsafe reopening,
gsteinb is offline  
Old 07-12-20, 08:59 AM
  #5  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 26,977
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11404 Post(s)
Liked 3,045 Times in 1,693 Posts
Philadelphia’s numbers dropped despite many large protest marches. An analysis showed not increased infection rate. Bars and restaurants still do not allow indoor drinking/dining, and outdoor seating must be spaced. There is actually enforcement of this. At least one place in my neighborhood was cited for overcrowding. One nice thing the city has allowed are permits to put tables in parking spaces fronting bars and restaurants. Affords more space for distancing.

On the house party issue, it’s now summer down the shore time, which means lots of group shore rental houses by friends. A little over a month ago a young woman from a neighboring county was at a shore house for a week, came home and infected 12 others. I suspect we will see more of the same now that summer is in full swing.

Last edited by indyfabz; 07-12-20 at 09:03 AM.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-12-20, 10:01 AM
  #6  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 24,565
Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11517 Post(s)
Liked 939 Times in 729 Posts
Lane County was spared much of the brunt of the initial COVID outbreak. Or at least it seemed that way. We had 3 deaths, but averaged about a case a day until early June.

Then we had a couple of large House parties celebrating the end of the school year. One with mainly HS Teenagers, and one with 20-something college kids. And, a bunch of them ended up infected.

Since then we've been getting about 10 to 15 cases a day of COVID in the county, and numbers have been growing quickly. (70 considered infectious, and 3 hospitalized).

The other thing that we now have is very few colds or flu, so anybody that is sick probably has COVID and gets tested. The 3 previous deaths may well indicate a significant number of infected, and far too few tests.

Anyway, there likely are a few George Floyd related cases in Minneapolis. But, the spike in numbers of cases among the 20-something crowd is likely due to activities like parties, and their interpretation of reopening. They may also be a group that had been under-diagnosed in the past. Studying in isolation? Summer jobs?
CliffordK is offline  
Old 07-12-20, 11:58 AM
  #7  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,218
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12044 Post(s)
Liked 3,399 Times in 1,895 Posts
I can't believe it isn't both. A lot of other are convinced the protests have had a minimal impact, that's a little hard to believe given how tightly spaced many of them were, but people have made good cases. More protesters wear masks than Safeway shoppers.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 07-12-20, 12:10 PM
  #8  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 18,777

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 258 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18008 Post(s)
Liked 1,666 Times in 1,218 Posts
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Honest question - what's the difference? Rather than fomenting the culture war why can we look at it as "being safe" or "not being safe?" There can be safe protests and unsafe protests. Safe reopening and unsafe reopening,
...I would be reluctant to attend a "safe" protest. And I've been to plenty of them. Once the crowd dispersal response kicks in, there is no more "safe".
It's a wildly unpredictable environment, and much of it is beyond individual control. And I always felt if you were not willing to be arrested, maybe you didn't understand what "protest" entails ?
3alarmer is offline  
Old 07-12-20, 04:37 PM
  #9  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,048
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 135 Posts
That's fine. But it also has nothing to do with whether the increase in numbers is caused by reopening or protests. That's looking to assign blame based on ideology rather than if one is following the correct protocols.
gsteinb is offline  
Old 07-12-20, 05:45 PM
  #10  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 26,977
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11404 Post(s)
Liked 3,045 Times in 1,693 Posts
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
That's fine. But it also has nothing to do with whether the increase in numbers is caused by reopening or protests
What’s fine?

As for Philadelphia, the large protests were before what can be called the partial reopening. Someone crunched the numbers and concluded protests did not have an impact. Numbers in the state have gone up with more reopening. I predict increases as more and more people develop “mask fatigue” and become complacent.

Last edited by indyfabz; 07-12-20 at 05:51 PM.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-12-20, 05:58 PM
  #11  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,048
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 135 Posts
That you would be reluctant to attend a 'safe' protest.
It's fine. And utterly irrelevant.
gsteinb is offline  
Old 07-12-20, 06:58 PM
  #12  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 18,777

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 258 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18008 Post(s)
Liked 1,666 Times in 1,218 Posts
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
That's fine. But it also has nothing to do with whether the increase in numbers is caused by reopening or protests. That's looking to assign blame based on ideology rather than if one is following the correct protocols.
...my reluctance to attend a protest that by any reasonable definition is not "safe", for exactly the reasons I explained, is looking to assign blame on ideology ? Sure...OK...whatever.
I'm perfectly willing to assign blame to any and all mass gatherings. There is no "correct protocol" for gathering in large numbers right now, no matter what your cognitive dissonance is telling you.
3alarmer is offline  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 07-12-20, 07:00 PM
  #13  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 18,777

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 258 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18008 Post(s)
Liked 1,666 Times in 1,218 Posts
.
...there's a lot of false dilemma in this thread.
3alarmer is offline  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 07-13-20, 03:25 AM
  #14  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 26,977
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11404 Post(s)
Liked 3,045 Times in 1,693 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...there's a lot of false dilemma in this thread.
qft
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-13-20, 03:31 AM
  #15  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 26,977
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11404 Post(s)
Liked 3,045 Times in 1,693 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...my reluctance to attend a protest that by any reasonable definition is not "safe", for exactly the reasons I explained, is looking to assign blame on ideology ? Sure...OK...whatever.
I'm perfectly willing to assign blame to any and all mass gatherings. There is no "correct protocol" for gathering in large numbers right now, no matter what your cognitive dissonance is telling you.
Yeah. The focus of the protests were never made an issue by the OP. Quite the opposite. They could have been about higher beef prices as I read the OP.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-13-20, 04:40 AM
  #16  
SHBR
C*pt*i* Obvious
 
SHBR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 1,330
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 593 Post(s)
Liked 48 Times in 39 Posts
Minnesota was going to be a travel destination this summer.

Not anymore, its a damn shame they ruined the place!

Its not just Minneapolis, St. Paul has issues too.

SHBR is offline  
Likes For SHBR:
Old 07-13-20, 05:27 AM
  #17  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 26,977
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11404 Post(s)
Liked 3,045 Times in 1,693 Posts
Originally Posted by SHBR View Post
Minnesota was going to be a travel destination this summer.

Not anymore, its a damn shame they ruined the place!

Its not just Minneapolis, St. Paul has issues too.
Spent two weeks riding in MN while crossing the country. Too many mosquitoes for my liking, but I did see a bear cub in Malmo and walked across the Mississippi River at Lake Itasca State Park.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-13-20, 05:42 AM
  #18  
SHBR
C*pt*i* Obvious
 
SHBR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 1,330
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 593 Post(s)
Liked 48 Times in 39 Posts
The worst mosquitoes!

I remember getting bites through heavy denim jeans.

Mosquitoes in Shanghai are sneaky, they only bite when you are sleeping!
SHBR is offline  
Old 07-13-20, 06:49 AM
  #19  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 18,777

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 258 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18008 Post(s)
Liked 1,666 Times in 1,218 Posts
Originally Posted by SHBR View Post
Minnesota was going to be a travel destination this summer.

Not anymore, its a damn shame they ruined the place!

Its not just Minneapolis, St. Paul has issues too.

3alarmer is offline  
Old 07-13-20, 10:19 AM
  #20  
MinnMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 3,255

Bikes: 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1172 Post(s)
Liked 475 Times in 289 Posts
Fify

Originally Posted by shbr View Post
minnesota was going to be a travel destination this summer.

Not anymore, its a damn shame they ruined the place!

Its not just minneapolis, the entire united states has issues too.

MinnMan is offline  
Old 07-13-20, 10:31 AM
  #21  
LesterOfPuppets
cowboy, steel horse, etc
 
LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Valley of the Sun.
Posts: 34,317

Bikes: everywhere

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5336 Post(s)
Liked 1,033 Times in 556 Posts
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Honest question - what's the difference? Rather than fomenting the culture war why can we look at it as "being safe" or "not being safe?" There can be safe protests and unsafe protests. Safe reopening and unsafe reopening,
I'm ready to face the possible reality that there really isn't any such thing as "safely" opening bars as we know them. It just isn't possible to have a bunch of people hang out indoors and drinking together without spreading the virus around, at least not by any conventional methods.
LesterOfPuppets is offline  
Old 07-13-20, 11:24 AM
  #22  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,048
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 135 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...my reluctance to attend a protest that by any reasonable definition is not "safe", for exactly the reasons I explained, is looking to assign blame on ideology ? Sure...OK...whatever.
I'm perfectly willing to assign blame to any and all mass gatherings. There is no "correct protocol" for gathering in large numbers right now, no matter what your cognitive dissonance is telling you.
I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about, since I said basically the same thing you just said. It's cool you think you're the smartest most articulate guy in the room, but it's just not the case.

So to dumb it down for you

Debating if the increase is the protests or the reopening is fomenting the culture war.
The only thing that matters is the extent to which people resume group dynamics, the extent to which that occurs safely, and what case increases occur
It does not matter if it's people doing construction, buying coffee, or protesting. If their actions lead to increases it's a problem.
So again, whether they're protesting or bowling doesn't matter.

that you would or wouldn't do something is utterly and completely but it's irrelevant to anything that was being discussed.
gsteinb is offline  
Old 07-13-20, 11:25 AM
  #23  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,048
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 135 Posts
Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
I'm ready to face the possible reality that there really isn't any such thing as "safely" opening bars as we know them. It just isn't possible to have a bunch of people hang out indoors and drinking together without spreading the virus around, at least not by any conventional methods.
I totally agree, which is why we're locked down on weekends, do what we need to during the week, and really limit it.
gsteinb is offline  
Old 07-13-20, 11:40 AM
  #24  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 18,777

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 258 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18008 Post(s)
Liked 1,666 Times in 1,218 Posts
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about, since I said basically the same thing you just said. It's cool you think you're the smartest most articulate guy in the room, but it's just not the case.

So to dumb it down for you

Debating if the increase is the protests or the reopening is fomenting the culture war.
The only thing that matters is the extent to which people resume group dynamics, the extent to which that occurs safely, and what case increases occur
It does not matter if it's people doing construction, buying coffee, or protesting. If their actions lead to increases it's a problem.
So again, whether they're protesting or bowling doesn't matter.

that you would or wouldn't do something is utterly and completely but it's irrelevant to anything that was being discussed.
...thanks for this. It makes it easier to ignore you henceforth.

Once more, and very, very slowly:

Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
(Please note, this thread is not in P&R. Opinions about the street protests themselves don't belong in this thread)

.
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Honest question - what's the difference? Rather than fomenting the culture war why can we look at it as "being safe" or "not being safe?" There can be safe protests and unsafe protests. Safe reopening and unsafe reopening,
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...I would be reluctant to attend a "safe" protest. And I've been to plenty of them. Once the crowd dispersal response kicks in, there is no more "safe".
It's a wildly unpredictable environment, and much of it is beyond individual control. And I always felt if you were not willing to be arrested, maybe you didn't understand what "protest" entails ?
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
That's fine. But it also has nothing to do with whether the increase in numbers is caused by reopening or protests. That's looking to assign blame based on ideology rather than if one is following the correct protocols.

Now I'm pretty sure I said that there was no way I could see to protest safely. And in doing so I referenced my personal experience with attending various protest marches over the years, both in Washington D.C. and here in Sacramento. For some reason that put you in a snit. You can stay there as long as you want...maybe it will be safer.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 07-13-20, 12:06 PM
  #25  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,048
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 135 Posts
I'm hardly in a snit. I'm genuinely not sure what I did to put you in a snit, but hey snap me on ignore. I moderated here for more than a decade and I don't suffer fools. Anyway that's all awesome. You have life experiences? Cool. Me too. I'm also looking at the data and studies of what's going on, along with the fact that people are out in the world doing all sorts of things. There was a protest that was studied in Bellingham where folks wore masks and followed protocol and no one caught the virus. The hair dresser who infamously had Covid and saw 140 something clients gave it to no one because they followed protocols. When we drop the protocols people catch the virus. When we maintain them we interact as safely as possible. That's the only point that matters.
gsteinb is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.