hwheel72 

I recently found a CB frame for sale from the original owner. He bought in February 58. It's a lugless model and from the pictures in pretty good shape. From what I've read online that seems to be when CB went down and Holdsworth swooped them up. How are these lug less frames? Did all CB bikes use 531? He's not asking very much and it could be a nice commuter but I really don't know much about them.

Thanks for any help

Kuromori

No, the lowest end ones did not. Less lower end ones used straight gauge 531 or A&P. Higher end ones could be built with either 531 or A&P.

hwheel72 

Here's a link if that helps any. Thanks for your info...

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/bi...094363053.html

bwilli88 

Lugless but looks to be fillet brazed, sweet ride.

KenNC

I would snap that up, clean it up, and gradually bring some components back to period correct. Maybe he has some of the old parts since he is the original owner.....

bikemig 

Buy it, ask questions later. If it were close to me, I'd be heading over there right now.

Kilroy1988 

Yeah, definitely pick that up. In England these frames aren't too sought after but in that condition would still be worth well over £100. And if you wanted to get one here to the states you'd have to add another $150 or so for shipping. That doesn't even include the deal you're getting by having all of the other components thrown in!

-Gregory

desconhecido 

Just wow, that bike looks nice. I'm not sure about the current component mix on it, might move towards something more period correct. Or, considering that the RD is on a claw, conversion to IGH may be reasonable. Glad I don't have to decide as even though the price looks very right for that bike in that condition, it's too big for me and too far from Houston.

noglider 

You want this bike.

Kuromori

It's a $100 bike with a Brooks in decent condition. It's hard to go wrong. Even if it's a low end one, you could do a lot worse for $100.

merziac

Run, don't walk.

I would not have posted that here.

You should hurry.

You rarely see something this old, this original frame wise, this nice.

If it was my size, I would be giving you a run for your money right now.

58 if correct, and appears it could be is my bday and that would be fantastic sitting next to this.

58 Paramount

Johno59

Filed lugless frames are the top of the range. Stop reading this and buy it now!

Kilroy1988 

Actually it's a Jubilee model, which was at the bottom of the range. Claud Butler's bi-laminated lugged frames were all at the top.

Claud Butler Jubilee - 1953

"Fillet brazing was a cheap method of building frames at that time because skilled labour cost less than buying lug castings. Today, the position is reversed and a hand-built fillet-brazed frame is more expensive than a lugged frame. The workmanship on these early Clauds is outstanding and the joints are all beautifully smooth. These frames are surprisingly light too - lighter than an equivalent lugged frame yet equally strong."

(Addendum - the same goes for the Holdsworth La Quelda and Hobbs welded models, as well as most others produced by the British lightweight builders of the day. The fillet-brazed frames were at or near the bottom of the pile.)

And an excerpt from the 1955 Catalog. Do note that the Jubilee is not made from butted Reynolds 531, but just straight gauge. The frame in question here is in excellent original condition which makes it valuable, but in England these frames are not considered anything very special except in the case when they are in lovely condition.

Kuromori

There are some higher end bronze welded ones made with butted 531 throughout, but they usually have other flourishes like wraparound seatstays and the obvious tubing decals. There were ones that didn't even use 531.

Kilroy1988 

Indeed! I think that both the Holdsworth La Quelda and Mercian welded frames were typically made with butted tubing. But they still regularly stood beneath the fancy lugged frames in terms of pricing. As the quoted statement from Classic Lightweights suggests, welding and fillet-brazing just weren't considered as innovative in terms of frame building, compared to how we think of those fabrication methods today.

hwheel72 

Guys, thanks for the all the info thus far. Responses were funny and informative. I spoke with the owner and he said he feels he has the receipt as well which hopefully could tell us exactly which model. He said the frame was ready to go and the shop in the UK of which he bought added the pin striping before he picked it up. I asked about the 531 and he responded saying the shop most likely avoided the sticker because it would interrupt the striping on the seat tube. Regardless, it's a very cool looking frame.

hwheel72 

Bought the bike. I believe it's a very early Holdsworth model however. Serial number is H31.. I've tried looking up serial identification but have had zero luck. Anyone have a suggestion?

Owner had no original parts, unfortunately. It came with a Cinelli stem and Cinelli 64-42 handlebars. It's only the second saddle ever mounted. Brooks Pro from the 70's. supple and comfortable. He really took good care of this bike. Has a brazed on lamp mount as well on the fork which is super cool.