Rivendell seems to have changed
03-09-19, 02:47 PM
#151
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Here's the top of an email I got from Rivendell recently:
So, if they could only ride, say, an OPEN U.P. they'd never get on a bike again? If they were only allowed to ride a Di2 Madone SLR with 700x28 tires, no more bike riding?
For a lot of people, the idea of a Rivendell bike is appealing. Twine, leather, steel, platform pedals, California sand roads, seersucker shirt, picnic basket, cork in the wine and on the bars. It's nice. But if I were to ever buy a Rivendell, it would be my fifth or sixth bike -- it's just not my regular life as a rider; not every day is a rambling picnic day.
Yes, if the only bikes available were Rivendell bikes, I would wash my beard in pine tar soap and saddle up. But that's not the world we live in. In the real world, modern bikes do everything a Rivendell bike does, just way better. And in the real world, you can buy a cool used steel framed bike that fits wide tires on eBay or your local swap for less than $200. That leaves about $2,000 for cork, chrome, leather, etc.
My advice for Rivendell would be to keep selling a vision, an aesthetic. But don't pretend the real world isn't out there; it is -- at best, they can offer an escape from it, not a whole substitution.
So, if they could only ride, say, an OPEN U.P. they'd never get on a bike again? If they were only allowed to ride a Di2 Madone SLR with 700x28 tires, no more bike riding?
For a lot of people, the idea of a Rivendell bike is appealing. Twine, leather, steel, platform pedals, California sand roads, seersucker shirt, picnic basket, cork in the wine and on the bars. It's nice. But if I were to ever buy a Rivendell, it would be my fifth or sixth bike -- it's just not my regular life as a rider; not every day is a rambling picnic day.
Yes, if the only bikes available were Rivendell bikes, I would wash my beard in pine tar soap and saddle up. But that's not the world we live in. In the real world, modern bikes do everything a Rivendell bike does, just way better. And in the real world, you can buy a cool used steel framed bike that fits wide tires on eBay or your local swap for less than $200. That leaves about $2,000 for cork, chrome, leather, etc.
My advice for Rivendell would be to keep selling a vision, an aesthetic. But don't pretend the real world isn't out there; it is -- at best, they can offer an escape from it, not a whole substitution.
The Riv aesthetic harkens back to a time when ordinary people rode ordinary bikes for ordinary activities. I do agree it is a stylized aesthetic that one can replicate for far less but such is the nature of consumerism. People seem to spend an awful lot on leisure equipment that they hope reflects a certain image about them. Roadies and hipsters alike.
03-09-19, 03:50 PM
#152
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If I could only ride a Madone Di2 with 28s I probably would never ride a bike again...just not the type of riding I do anymore and riding a Madone on the gravel roads and trails I do would be a disaster.
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03-09-19, 08:49 PM
#153
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Here's the top of an email I got from Rivendell recently:
So, if they could only ride, say, an OPEN U.P. they'd never get on a bike again? If they were only allowed to ride a Di2 Madone SLR with 700x28 tires, no more bike riding?
For a lot of people, the idea of a Rivendell bike is appealing. Twine, leather, steel, platform pedals, California sand roads, seersucker shirt, picnic basket, cork in the wine and on the bars. It's nice. But if I were to ever buy a Rivendell, it would be my fifth or sixth bike -- it's just not my regular life as a rider; not every day is a rambling picnic day.
Yes, if the only bikes available were Rivendell bikes, I would wash my beard in pine tar soap and saddle up. But that's not the world we live in. In the real world, modern bikes do everything a Rivendell bike does, just way better. And in the real world, you can buy a cool used steel framed bike that fits wide tires on eBay or your local swap for less than $200. That leaves about $2,000 for cork, chrome, leather, etc.
My advice for Rivendell would be to keep selling a vision, an aesthetic. But don't pretend the real world isn't out there; it is -- at best, they can offer an escape from it, not a whole substitution.
So, if they could only ride, say, an OPEN U.P. they'd never get on a bike again? If they were only allowed to ride a Di2 Madone SLR with 700x28 tires, no more bike riding?
For a lot of people, the idea of a Rivendell bike is appealing. Twine, leather, steel, platform pedals, California sand roads, seersucker shirt, picnic basket, cork in the wine and on the bars. It's nice. But if I were to ever buy a Rivendell, it would be my fifth or sixth bike -- it's just not my regular life as a rider; not every day is a rambling picnic day.
Yes, if the only bikes available were Rivendell bikes, I would wash my beard in pine tar soap and saddle up. But that's not the world we live in. In the real world, modern bikes do everything a Rivendell bike does, just way better. And in the real world, you can buy a cool used steel framed bike that fits wide tires on eBay or your local swap for less than $200. That leaves about $2,000 for cork, chrome, leather, etc.
My advice for Rivendell would be to keep selling a vision, an aesthetic. But don't pretend the real world isn't out there; it is -- at best, they can offer an escape from it, not a whole substitution.
Also - Riv’s California is far from the beach and sand.
03-09-19, 10:21 PM
#154
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I get from that RBR post that the issue there is that it was an INTEGRATED headset. Yes, I would avoid those (though I have never even come accross an integration option in any bike I have looked at).
I have owned something like 20 bikes with threadless headsets. None had any sort of proprietary headset. Can you give an example of a frame with a proprietary threadless headset? I am sure they exist, but I think they are very uncommon. Maybe C-dale with some of there oddball forks, or bikes with shocks inside the head tube?
Yes, you can overtighten a threadless headset, but you can also overtighten a threaded one. Not sure how one is more or less likely to be overtightened. I find the preload easier to fine tune on threadless, but that is just me.
You don’t need to remove a threadless headset to pull the stem. Though keeping the fork from falling out does take some planning unless you keep the bike on the ground.
I guess if adjusting the height is something you do a lot, threaded would make that easier. I know this is what GP sells the idea on. Might be very useful if bike is used by different riders.
In terms of performance, For casual use I don’t see much difference, but in applications where I am torquing on the bars hard, I find threadless to be stiffer, and threaded more likely to creak (assuming the threadless headset uses an expansion ring).
To each his own, I guess.
https://www.cannondaleexperts.com/Headsets_c_64.html
03-09-19, 11:39 PM
#155
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hardly a big deal.
03-09-19, 11:41 PM
#156
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I think the only reason threadless came out was because of aluminum and carbon fiber frames, a bike company couldn't make the headtube light enough in the case of aluminum because the headtube would have to be thicker to prevent the quill's wedge from damaging the headtube as you tighten it down to secure it; and in the case of carbon fiber you would have to use a thick steel or aluminum insert to prevent damaging the CF again defeating the purpose of trying to get the bike frame lighter.
03-10-19, 04:03 AM
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I think the only reason threadless came out was because of aluminum and carbon fiber frames, a bike company couldn't make the headtube light enough in the case of aluminum because the headtube would have to be thicker to prevent the quill's wedge from damaging the headtube as you tighten it down to secure it; and in the case of carbon fiber you would have to use a thick steel or aluminum insert to prevent damaging the CF ...
Origins: How the AheadSet threadless headset changed bikes forever @ CyclingTips, by James Huang, 2017. Interviews and research with Dia-Compe/Cane Creek on the origins of the threadless AheadSet concept.
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03-10-19, 10:07 AM
#158
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I just flew back from California, sat next to a guy who put a small level on his tray and asked me, doesn't the horizon looked flat out the window. He told me a lot about NASA photoshopping stuff. Rivendell will always have some market as long as they persist. The facts just aren't on their side. If you don't think unpaved roads in California are generally sandy, come to Wisconsin sometime to experience clay and loam soils.
03-10-19, 12:52 PM
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But still, the issue is not the thread-less headset, it is the fact that some companies just want to do proprietary stuff. You can make a proprietary version of anything if you want. Specialized made a habit (might still) of using oddball size shocks that Fox would make just for them. If threadless never came out, I am sure someone would have come up with a proprietary version of a threaded headset as well.
In any event, unless you end up buying one of these uncommon proprietary setups, it is really a non-issue.
This is really not something I feel that strongly about. I find threadless a better system to work with myself, but if someone else like threaded, that's great. It's all good.
03-10-19, 12:57 PM
#160
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I just flew back from California, sat next to a guy who put a small level on his tray and asked me, doesn't the horizon looked flat out the window. He told me a lot about NASA photoshopping stuff. Rivendell will always have some market as long as they persist. The facts just aren't on their side. If you don't think unpaved roads in California are generally sandy, come to Wisconsin sometime to experience clay and loam soils.
In another ten years steel frames will be stuff for the museums. Cyclist will think. "Why did they want to ride crap like that?"
03-10-19, 01:12 PM
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In another ten years steel frames will be stuff for the museums.
03-10-19, 01:27 PM
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Carbon has been around for what, a couple of decades now, and steel hasn't gone anywhere. It's not going to go anywhere.
Plus, calling all steel bikes crap just negates whatever shred of argument you had. Tell Richard Sachs, Sacha White, Mitch Pryor, Ira Ryan, or the multitude of independent shops creating awesome steel bikes that they are creating crap.
Hell, there are a bunch of people still shooting photography using film.
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03-10-19, 01:37 PM
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But why would anyone celebrate the demise of an Americam Company trying to bring a little diversity to the bike scene. How did it negatively effect their personal choices to such a degree and is anyone really riding the last bike or genre or technology they will ever try?
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03-10-19, 02:57 PM
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03-10-19, 06:53 PM
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When Grant was going on about 603mm bead seat diameter I dropped him a note saying that 597 had been largely abandoned by tire makers but there was a significant built-in market with old Schwinns and collectors of British 26x1-1/4 bikes. And it was only 1% different from his proposal. And the tire makers had molds for 597 already, all they needed was an order. Got back a 1500 word rant about how 1% really matters. And he was a genius. And I understood nothing about bicycles. Kinda lost interest in his sales spiel after that.
03-24-20, 09:31 PM
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03-25-20, 02:34 AM
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03-25-20, 09:45 AM
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03-25-20, 11:44 AM
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LP sales show that there are a lot of '60s reenactors out there.
LPs are making money. Not as much as in the '70s, but they are profitable. They're not dead, and they're not obsolete.
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03-25-20, 12:42 PM
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A lot of LP buyers weren't even twinkles in their parents' eyes in the '60s. A lot of the buyers' parents weren't even a live in the '60s. Hardly re-enactors.
LPs are making money. Not as much as in the '70s, but they are profitable. They're not dead, and they're not obsolete.
LPs are making money. Not as much as in the '70s, but they are profitable. They're not dead, and they're not obsolete.
03-25-20, 12:50 PM
#174
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$224 million for LP's. $5.4 billion for streaming.
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03-25-20, 01:08 PM
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For any of those people, vinyl has been a niche their entire lives.