tatfiend 

I just received the new third edition of Frank Berto's "The Dancing Chain". This is the first edition that I have seen.

The book is 400 pages in 8.5" x 11" format. It covers bicycle drivetrains from the 1870s through the start of this year, 2009. While primarily derailleur history oriented it does mention, and picture, all types of bicycle drivetrains including gear hubs, expanding sprockets, the NuVinci hub etc. Lots of history of the companies and their products as well as literally hundreds of photos and drawings of equipment.

This book looks to me to be an excellent book that should be in the library of any bike enthusiast who also has an interest in the mechanics and history of the development of the bicycle drivetrain.

I got my copy through Amazon for about $20 off the list price.

akcapbikeforums

thanks for the heads-up

Kommisar89

I received my copy the other day. It's a really nice book but it doesn't replace Frank 1988 book ('Upgrading your Bicycle' or something like that) as my favorite. It contains a great deal of information, especially form the early periods of derailleur development. I have a few nit-picks - the editing is awful for such an otherwise nice book. And Frank's own biases tend to stand out in the later chapters. I'm pretty sure he's still getting checks from Shimano (just kidding). But overall I really like it, especially since it only cost me $35 with the advanced purchase.

J T CUNNINGHAM

When I bought my '86 AMBROSI from High Park Cycles, John (Jon?) gave me a copy of

Frank Berto's "THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO UPGRADING YOUR BICYCLE"; I was "hooked"!


Regards,
J T

cudak888 

Does he simply update the tail end of the book every two years or so? I can't think why it has been through three editions already.

-Kurt

SoreFeet

I really like the Sunset for Suntour article.

There is some history.

Citoyen du Monde

It needs to be updated so often because of the incredible number of errors... There are more in the latter part than the earlier part.

tatfiend 

The second edition was sold out and it is frequently easier to get a publisher to bring out a new printing if it is a revised edition. Authors have told me this is so. Per the front info the original edition was self published so probably had a small number printed. No idea of the print run on the second edition.

I noticed some problems such as a few photos with the wrong descriptions but overall think that it is a good job and a heck of a lot of work.

Considering his list of sources and bike historians who helped with information he mentions it looks like new information continues to surface about all areas of bicycle history too.

tiger1964 

I know this is an old thread. Well, I just finished a copy my wife gave me for Christmas, literally a "cannot put it down" book. True, a few things I did not care for, like (a) I am not convinced this book was ever proofread, there are typos and repeated sentences that could easily been fixed, and (b) some of the explanatory line drawings are far to tiny to discern the details they are supposed to convey -- the "bushless chain" depiction comes to mind.

Much of the book was a historical revelation. I thought I knew a lot about derailleurs; now, maybe I do. Plenty of units I had never seen before (although plenty I have seen, and a few oddballs are still in my "collection"). A fascinating read, I learned a lot and entertained at the same time.

The final third of the book was a more difficult read; not from the complexity, but in that it shatters a lot of misconceptions about the vintage equipment so many of us cherish, and their shortfalls. I am not ready to consign my various Nuovo Record RD's to the waste bin, but efforts getting to a "maximized" performance out of them can quite possibly fall short; and I just do not see converting to 21st Century derailleurs, etc. (I recently bought my first 1980's derailleur and even that was a big step). Eh, with my total in-the-saddle exposure to modern stuff being about 3 to 4 miles total, I guess I do not know what I am missing.

Regardless, I recommend the book.

Kommisar89

I have a fair amount of experience with old and relatively new. What I would say is that when riding myself or even with a group of casual riders who are just cruising along and enjoying the nice day, it makes no difference at all and I enjoy, maybe even prefer, riding the with the old gear. It's really only when riding with a hard charging group of guys with modern equipment that it becomes an issue. Aerodynamically I'm at a disadvantage but it doesn't really matter if I'm in a group. Weight wise I'm at a disadvantage but even a 7-8 pound difference in the bike is not significant compared to the overall weight of bike and rider. So let's say I'm doing just fine, keeping up with the group in the hills and on the flats on my C&V bike. Then we get into the twisty section. There is a guy on new bike in front of me but I'm right on his wheel. We head into the turn. He's charging in hot. But his brakes are a lot better than mine so I start to brake sooner and a gap open up. We're both still in a high gear from the flats or maybe even a descent as we approach the turn. He hits the apex of the turn, flicks his fingers and shifts down multiple gears, then accelerates out of the turn. I'm already a little behind because I braked early. Now I hit the apex of the turn. I can't shift because I'm still in the middle of the turn with both hand of the handlebars. As I straighten up, I reach down and shift to a lower gear. Maybe I have to make a double shift. It's much slower than his STI shifters. The whole time he's accelerating away from me. I was right on his wheel and now I'm 3-4 bike lengths behind him. I accelerate to catch up. One time is no big deal. After a 2-3 hour ride and doing that over and over, I'm beat. You can see why, at a competitive level, nobody wants to run old gear.

tcs

I have a first edition and recently bought a 5th edition (2016).

This new one is easily the worst commercial printing job I've seen in 50 years. Blank pages, wrinkled pages, ink-smudged pages...sigh.




I was taken aback by Mr. Berto's summary of the efficiency of hub and derailleur gears, which did not track his raw data of 15 years before.

Catnap 

Back in 2015 I had put together a large collection of vintage derailleurs from the 1920s-1950s, mostly French with a few British examples. I got into collecting them because it was so fascinating to see how inventors tried all these different mechanical approaches, as well as evolving existing ideas and building on prior successful mechanisms. I even mounted some on vintage bikes and rode them, getting a great first-hand understanding of Cyclo, Simplex, Nivex, and Huret's earliest endeavors. As the collection grew to fill several boxes, I wasn't sure what to do with it. Then I got a copy of "The Dancing Chain" and saw all of these derailleurs diagrammed and explained in the book, along with the few that I hadn't yet gotten my hands on. Instantly I was ready to sell my collection - I was happy having the book and being able to consult it whenever I was curious about an old derailleur. I did sell off most of the collection by 2016, but still have and cherish my copy of the book.

bulgie 

I love this book, warts and all, and I'm so glad it got made. Frank paid his dues, and if he had some quirks crotchets and biases, I think he earned 'em.

I guess mine must be a first edition, since it doesn't say what edition it is. It's autographed with a personal message to me, a gift from my lovely wife. I didn't even hint or prod, it was her idea, she contacted Frank. I had no clue this was coming until I opened it.



On my old racing team, my nickname was Bullwinkle, also sometimes his alter-ego Mr. Know-It-All.



At Davidson, without asking me, someone in the office had my business cards printed with "Mr. Know-It-All" under my name, and under that a "quote" (though I don't think I've ever said it), "Blah blah blah chrome moly". That's where my profile quote here on BF comes from. I never truly loved it, but it stuck. I might have preferred "bla bla bla Modulus of Elasticity", though admittedly less catchy.

My preferred nickname, what they called me in high school, is Bugler — after the brand of rolling papers, not the brass instrument. I tried to play bugle briefly in Boy Scouts, but let's just say I never made it to Carnegie Hall. I did the world a favor by stopping.

But enough about me. What do YOU think... about me.

tiger1964 

When I ride with group, my experience is similar, although perhaps not quite as hard-charging. When I ride alone, or with a couple of old friends, it's not a problem... then again, I find myself just not shifting much.

Wow, I'd say they owed you a replacement!

I'd be very interested in your thoughts on the Nivex; having seen that it is back in production, it seems like very interesting technology. If I was having a frame built today, I'd be tempted by having the tab for a Nivex added.

Road Fan

I'm curious about the Nivex as well, but not at the prices for an original, or for a Rene Herse modern realization.

Catnap 

I had two Nivex derailleurs, one in NOS condition and one that was used. I attached the used one to a Jo Routens bike I had at the time. The Routens' frame did not have the necessary mounting tab for the Nivex, but I improvised a mount using a chainstay clamp from the same time period. These clamps were common in that era since many derailleurs were chainstay-mounted. The bike had a 5-speed freewheel on it, but I don't recall the cog sizes. I spent days figuring out the cabling for the Nivex, but I finally jury-rigged a working shifter and clamped it to the top tube (the downtube already had a Cyclo-style lever to operate the handmade front derailleur). I wish I had photos of the setup! I may have posted about it here back in 2015.

I don't have anything exciting to report about its performance. It shifted across the cogs and was rideable, but not particularly reliable. Shifting was sort of a "vibe" and took a lot of adjustment to trim shifts to where the chain wasn't rattling around. I rode it around NYC for a few weeks, commuting over the Williamsburg bridge into Manhattan a few times. I was constantly worried about a catastrophic failure that would leave permanent damage to either to the derailleur or the bike, as both were quite valuable. That didn't happen, but the improvised shift cable I made (a loop, like a Cyclo) came undone repeatedly, and so I decided to dismantle the setup.

I can't say that my experience with the Nivex left me with a meaningful opinion on its performance. To fairly evaluate it, the derailleur should have been mounted via the braze-on to ensure proper positioning, and with a correct Nivex shift cable. I never got it to be reliable enough to really push the bike or do a ride longer than 10-12 miles on it. I'd love to try the new Rene Herse reproductions and see what a properly set-up and optimized version of the derailleur can do.

Kommisar89

Our local bike club does two separate rides on Sunday. The Social Ride and the Fitness Ride. They meet at the same place and time but take different routes. The Social Ride is a casual, no-drop type of ride where a C&V bike is just perfect for cruising along and generating conversation. Everybody thinks it's just the coolest thing out there with all the chrome and the fancy styling of the old derailleurs. The Fitness Ride, on the other hand, is strictly an all out suffer fest. Ride at your own pace and may the best person win. If you get get dropped you better hope the buzzards don't get you. LOL. You have to be dedicated to ride a C&V bike in that.

John E

Though I know quite a bit about Capo frames, it was Berto's mention of Capo derailleurs, something I didn't known existed, that put me on the quest to find a picture of a set. Looking at these made me glad that the company had switched to Campagnolo by the time my frames were made.





1952 Capo with Capo brand derailleurs

tiger1964 

I was thinking about this last night; on these Paleolithic pull-chain derailleurs, I do not see limit screws (I have one downstairs, I cannot recall but might be Benelux branding), so how does one avoid putting the derailleur cage into the spokes? Perhaps move the entire RD in and out?

chain_whipped

No limiting screws but instead the lower horizontal shaft where the coiled spring wraps around, there's a round knurled nut. Travel and limit is adjusted with that and the pull cable.

bikingshearer 

I have a copy of the Third Edition (2009) that my wife had Mr. Berto sign ("Gears 2 U!"). The great American novel it ain't, but that isn't the point. It pulls more derailleur (and general drivetrain) info together in one place that anything else. It's a fun book to consult from time to tome and I am very glad to have a copy. Between it and the Disraeli Gears website, the subject is very well covered unless what you need is a "how to" manual on how to fit, say, a Nivex derailleur to a frame not equipped with a Nivex-compatable tab - for that, consult catnip. .

chain_whipped

Comparing derailleurs is often funny.

I have a beautiful French made LE Lewis from the 1930's. Made from aluminum alloy of sorts. Shifts a 3 speed cog and clamps to the chainstay. Tension spring looks like something that would work on a cabin back porch door. All things considered, works beautiful and definitely would classify for the lighter weight class.

Advance FOUR decades from the above mentioned, I have a few Shimano that could be thought of as anchors. Shift poor, the stamped and crimp bent metal flex and will not maintain a precise bearing alignment. It feels as if weighing 2 lbs. even with their drillium appearances. They came with shift levers that look from a beer tap lever. Hilarious stuff.

John D

Tiger, On my Benelux and Simplex versions the shaft the pull chain goes through is adjustable by loosening a locknut and threading it in or out through the main body.

bulgie 

Ugh, yeah nobody wants to ride those derailers, but the frame looks pretty sweet.

I just read today over on CR, Ted Ernst who sold Capo back in the day said he thought they were Austrian, probably from Steyr. What do you think?

My mom is from Steyr. Though I've never been there, I'm half-Austrian. My maternal grandfather worked in a different bicycle factory there (not Capo), pre-war. I gather their history of high-quality metal working goes back to medieval times, making armor and weapons. If Capo was in Steyr or thereabouts, they'd pull from the same community of craftsmen with a long tradition.

Whit51 

I used to check this out from the library and finally bought a copy. I've about worn out my copy of Berto's Upgrading Your Bike. It's a great resource if you feel 7-speed was the high point of bike tech.