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Eddy Merckx, De Rosa, Colnago

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Eddy Merckx, De Rosa, Colnago

Old 07-19-19, 05:13 PM
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Eddy Merckx, De Rosa, Colnago

I understand that I might be opening a can of worms here, but I'd like to know a bit of history here.
I understand that Colnago had relationship with Eddy Merckx as it is well known that he built that famous hour record breaking bike for Eddy Merckx. While de rosa was enlisted as team Molteni's mechanic and built bike for Eddy. When Eddy finally retired, it was Ugo Derosa who helped/taught him to set up a bike shop/factory. That is all I know, but I'd like to know more.
What are the histories/relations between those three important figures in the cycling history? Wiki or Google was not much of help in this department. Any hints or timeline would be appreciated.

Thanks!

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Old 07-19-19, 05:31 PM
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If what I've heard is correct, the Merckx/Colnago relationship ended rather abruptly at the hour record ride.

Somebody from Acer-Mex showed up at the Mexico City velodrome with a handful of cash and offered it to Eddy in exchange for putting Windsor decals on the bike Colnago had built for Eddy's hour record attempt. Eddy accepted, Ernie C was pissed and walked out. I don't know if they ever spoke again. I've seen photos from the hour ride, and the decals on the front of the bike very clearly say "WINDSOR", so there may be some truth to the story.

Personally, I think DeRosa was a better mentor for Eddy's budding bike business. Better craftsmanship, more hands-on experience (rumor has it that Ernie hadn't even held a torch in years at that point, FWIW).

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Old 07-19-19, 06:23 PM
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From Classic Rendezvous, brief history of DeRosa (Ugo) Classic Rendezvous, Brief History of Ugo Derosa

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Old 07-19-19, 07:36 PM
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If you have Amazon Prime, look up “Italian Masters”. There is one with Ugo DeRosa. It’s pretty much just Ugo talking to a camera but pretty interesting.
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Old 07-19-19, 09:28 PM
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Thanks for the insights. Especially that little known back story surrounding the Mexico Hour Record.
I get De Rosa part of the story. How Gianni Motta was part of the big picture and The time line would suggest that by 1973 it was Ugo De Rosa who supplied bike for the Cannibal.
However is it safe to say that E. Colnago supplied bike for the team Molteni and the Cannibal himself?
I am curious because many of my friends who are casual riders they associate the Molteni team and Eddy Merckx with Colnago while I have been trying to explain that it was Ugo De Rosa who helped the Cannibal when he was with Molteni team but the Mexico Hour Record bike was kind of exception.
I guess both De Rosa and Colnago can claim that they did built the winning bike for the Cannibal. Is it about right? Is there more to the story?
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Old 07-20-19, 10:11 AM
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It's often reported that Ugo De Rosa was instrumental in assisting Eddy Merckx with know-how when Eddy Merckx began bicycle frame production. I can attest that the retail Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra is a very close clone to the De Rosa Professional. I own both. The De Rosa Professional I have is probably from '86 or '87 and the Eddy Merck Corsa Extra is from '88. They are measure to measure identical. Every tube length and angle. They generally feel the same, with the De Rosa providing a little extra responsiveness, somehow. I'm convinced the Corsa Extra is a near duplicate of the De Rosa Professional.



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Old 07-20-19, 11:20 AM
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How involved was Merckx with Falcon?

Obviously there were major changes between licensed and actual production, but that may have also been an important stepping stone.
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Old 07-20-19, 11:54 AM
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The relationship with Colnago did not end after the Hour Record, as per Eddy hinself, he rode Colango made frames from 1971 to 1973

Here's a list of the frames ridden in competition by Eddy, per a 2003 interview of Eddy by Brett Horton;

1965, Superia branded frames, manufactured by Superia for Solo-Superia team.
1966, Peugeot branded frames, manufactured by Peugeot for Peugeot-BP team.
1967, Peugeot branded frames, manufactured by Peugeot and Masi for Peugeot-BP team.
1968, Faema branded frames, manufactured by Masi for Faema team.
1969, Eddy Merckx branded frames, manufactured by Terryn and Van der Este for Faema team.
1970, Eddy Merckx branded frames, manufactured by Pela for Faema team.
1971-1973: Eddy Merckx branded frames, manufactured by Colnago and Kessels for Molteni team.
1974-1976, Eddy Merckx branded frames, manufactured by Kessels and DeRosa for Molteni team.
1977, Eddy Merckx branded frames, manufactured by DeRosa for Fiat team.
1978, Eddy Merckx branded frames, manufactured by DeRosa for C&A team.

The Eddy Merckx branded bicycles manufactured by Falcon and Miyata were solely licensing agreements. Merckx did not ride these frames in competition.

Last edited by T-Mar; 07-20-19 at 01:43 PM. Reason: Corrected Colnago to Kessels for 1974-1976
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Old 07-20-19, 01:04 PM
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Thank you everyone!
Yes, T-Mar that's the kind of information I was looking for.

I will check the post if you have any other insight, please let me know.
Thanks again everyone, this is the by far the best group!
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Old 11-17-23, 06:13 PM
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There’s an episode of Seinfeld where Jerry needs to break off the professional relationship with his barber, and doesn’t handle it very tactfully (though successfully..).

What I’m getting at is that the suggestion that Merckx accepted the application of the Windsor decals to his bicycle in a non-deliberate way, or merely for a payout while blissfully unaware of the consequences to his professional relationship with Colnago never made much sense to me.

Either way, Merckx ultimately went with the better barber / builder.
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Old 11-17-23, 07:28 PM
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For a while, Eddy’s hour record bike lived in Seattle. Seems that the late George Gibbs, owner of Il Vecchio bike shop in Seattle, was talking with The Man at a bike show. GG asked what had happened to the hour record bike. “ It’s in my attic”, was Eddy’s reply. George, not a shy guy, asked Eddy if he could borrow it for a while to display in his shop. “Sure”, was the reply and Eddy went off to take care of other bike show stuff. George went home, expecting that Eddy was just being polite and that no bike would ever show up. A few weeks later, a box showed up at the shop. Inside, was the hour record bike.
As I recall, it hung in the shop for a few years and finally went back to Belgium. And I have to confess that I never went to see the bike, despite passing by the shop from time to time. It seemed like it was just a bike, one of the many beautiful bikes in the shop, none of which I could afford.
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Old 11-18-23, 12:37 AM
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There was more than one bike built for the hour record. Kirkbride (Masi USA) told me they built one for him as well. After test riding both, he chose the Colnago at the last minute.
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Old 11-18-23, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz
There was more than one bike built for the hour record. Kirkbride (Masi USA) told me they built one for him as well. After test riding both, he chose the Colnago at the last minute.
oh dear. No positive comment on Kirkbride. When the hour was achieved, at best Masi USA was just a contract and planning.

yes, two bikes. Both from Colnago. Watch the hour record documentary attempt and you will see two bikes. One Eddy Merckx with blue typography on the downtube. The other with Eddy Merckx on a blue background foil sticker, as seen on his licensed bikes. One bike, club incised on the top of the crown, one not. An extra set of bar and stem on the grass.
The details are a bit murky but there was money paid, most probably paid to the team manager. The threats that possibly went with that, “accept or else no attempt”
who knows.
Colnago was miffed, but his name on Eddy’s bikes was not a happening thing from the start.
I am pretty sure that the actual hour record bike is at the Merckx Metro station. Unfortunately things have been swapped out and the frame now REPAINTED.
much later Merckx graphics too.
the interesting note, worms eye angle will show “Pino” type transverse small tube reinforcements on the chainstays, open end down. 2, maybe 3 per side.
‘the Real bad? The seat is nearly slammed into the frame.
I even wrote to the Merckx Bike company, they actually could care less, they were not involved with the donation. History is just that.
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Old 11-18-23, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
The relationship with Colnago did not end after the Hour Record, as per Eddy hinself, he rode Colango made frames from 1971 to 1973

Here's a list of the frames ridden in competition by Eddy, per a 2003 interview of Eddy by Brett Horton;

1965, Superia branded frames, manufactured by Superia for Solo-Superia team.
1966, Peugeot branded frames, manufactured by Peugeot for Peugeot-BP team.
1967, Peugeot branded frames, manufactured by Peugeot and Masi for Peugeot-BP team.
1968, Faema branded frames, manufactured by Masi for Faema team.
1969, Eddy Merckx branded frames, manufactured by Terryn and Van der Este for Faema team.
1970, Eddy Merckx branded frames, manufactured by Pela for Faema team.
1971-1973: Eddy Merckx branded frames, manufactured by Colnago and Kessels for Molteni team.
1974-1976, Eddy Merckx branded frames, manufactured by Kessels and DeRosa for Molteni team.
1977, Eddy Merckx branded frames, manufactured by DeRosa for Fiat team.
1978, Eddy Merckx branded frames, manufactured by DeRosa for C&A team.

The Eddy Merckx branded bicycles manufactured by Falcon and Miyata were solely licensing agreements. Merckx did not ride these frames in competition.
La Course en Tete documentary backs this up, most of the filming was in 1973. Not a terrific year for Merckx actually. Of interest is a scene with Eddy watching the mechanic washing what I think is his bike due to his interest and frame size. The curious feature, a squat Spade cutout in the top of the fork crown. A different shape than I have seen elsewhere.

there was an old UK cycling magazine article with a Falcon made Merckx branded bike, heavily implying that Eddy had raced on it. Sure.
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Old 11-18-23, 01:21 AM
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BTW, think about the change in the Contract terms that brought Eddy racing on eponymous “branded” bikes years before there was any licensed branding agreement(s).
He or his manager was forward thinking.

Eddy was looking for “the good bike” Colnago was building many variations for Eddy. There are plenty of build card images that are different.
‘One would think that he would eventually decide on a geometry, or was his nagging back injury forcing variation to help mitigate it?

Last edited by repechage; 11-18-23 at 01:25 AM.
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Old 11-18-23, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
La Course en Tete documentary backs this up, most of the filming was in 1973. Not a terrific year for Merckx actually. Of interest is a scene with Eddy watching the mechanic washing what I think is his bike due to his interest and frame size. The curious feature, a squat Spade cutout in the top of the fork crown. A different shape than I have seen elsewhere.

there was an old UK cycling magazine article with a Falcon made Merckx branded bike, heavily implying that Eddy had raced on it. Sure.
At least some of the filming had to have been done in Aug/Sept 1974 because there is footage of Merckx blowing Poulidor's doors in near the end of the 1974 Montreal Worlds.
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Old 11-18-23, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
oh dear. No positive comment on Kirkbride. When the hour was achieved, at best Masi USA was just a contract and planning.

yes, two bikes. Both from Colnago. Watch the hour record documentary attempt and you will see two bikes. One Eddy Merckx with blue typography on the downtube. The other with Eddy Merckx on a blue background foil sticker, as seen on his licensed bikes. One bike, club incised on the top of the crown, one not. An extra set of bar and stem on the grass.
The details are a bit murky but there was money paid, most probably paid to the team manager. The threats that possibly went with that, “accept or else no attempt”
who knows.
Colnago was miffed, but his name on Eddy’s bikes was not a happening thing from the start.
I am pretty sure that the actual hour record bike is at the Merckx Metro station. Unfortunately things have been swapped out and the frame now REPAINTED.
much later Merckx graphics too.
the interesting note, worms eye angle will show “Pino” type transverse small tube reinforcements on the chainstays, open end down. 2, maybe 3 per side.
‘the Real bad? The seat is nearly slammed into the frame.
I even wrote to the Merckx Bike company, they actually could care less, they were not involved with the donation. History is just that.
I was repeating what Kirkbride told me.

This was during his big sell-off. He was trying to sell the Masi version according to him.

I'm not saying it was made by his team.

Just that he said, "I have it in my collection but since Eddy didn't chose it, and went with the Colnago, its place in history isn't all that important."

Not trying to create a story out of the ether. I couldn't care one way or another.

On the other hand, seemed like a perfectly good bike for CINO.
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Old 11-18-23, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
It's often reported that Ugo De Rosa was instrumental in assisting Eddy Merckx with know-how when Eddy Merckx began bicycle frame production. I can attest that the retail Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra is a very close clone to the De Rosa Professional. I own both. The De Rosa Professional I have is probably from '86 or '87 and the Eddy Merck Corsa Extra is from '88. They are measure to measure identical. Every tube length and angle. They generally feel the same, with the De Rosa providing a little extra responsiveness, somehow. I'm convinced the Corsa Extra is a near duplicate of the De Rosa Professional.


Gorgeous bikes, both of them. I have enough bikes now, or so my wife says but I've always wanted either a De Rosa or Merckx, from the same time frame as yours. Good to know they seem to be similar or near identical in ride and handling. I think either one will slot in between the characteristics of my 1991 SLX Zullo and 1989 Tesch S-22. At least that is what I'll tell my wife when she asks why I bought another bike, LOL! Also, I NEED a frame to hand my spare 11-speed Super Record group on, right?
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Old 11-18-23, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer
At least some of the filming had to have been done in Aug/Sept 1974 because there is footage of Merckx blowing Poulidor's doors in near the end of the 1974 Montreal Worlds.
Three friends and I drove up from New Haven to Montreal to watch the 1974 Worlds. From what I remember, it looked like the French kept sending riders up the road to try to draw out Merckx, or at least some of his Belgian teammates. The Belgians chased the French, and the Italians chased the Belgians.

My friends and I were standing midway up the Mont Royal climb, where we saw some crucial action during the last two laps. Didn't get to see the finish, of course, but there's a great moment in the film coverage where Merckx reaches down and casually tightens his toe straps before the sprint begins.
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Old 11-18-23, 09:37 AM
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[QUOTE=Robvolz;23075984]I was repeating what Kirkbride told me.

This was during his big sell-off. He was trying to sell the Masi version according to him.

I'm not saying it was made by his team.

Just that he said, "I have it in my collection but since Eddy didn't chose it, and went with the Colnago, its place in history isn't all that important."

Not trying to create a story out of the ether. I couldn't care one way or another.

On the other hand, seemed like a perfectly good bike for CINO.[/

‘the Masi “history” book, USA version is very Kirkbride-centric. Too bad that most of the players were no longer living or not consulted, and at least one has their own agenda to be more important than they were. I think it was grand that a USA production facility was created and I benefitted from it. All at the bike shop where I worked had the conclusion that Carlsbad was hopeless to make money, we thought it was a tax write off. We were happy to get the great bicycles we did. Ted was hoodwinked too perhaps. The extensive use of offsite subcontractors at Masi of the Vigorelli was not fully known. Mr. Masi neglected to mention that. To keep quality up the subs were subtly played off each other, those who visually put in extra effort received more work and their work was shown to others as what to do to earn more commissions. I thought an effective way to manage quality. Not all subs made forks and as the raking fixture was custom, that was done at the Vigorelli almost exclusively. Still one of the most attractive parabolic curves put to a fork.

The investment cast lugs did help production time but when they arrived in later 1975, the bike boom was in retreat. They were tough to cast and the wall thickness is much thinner that anything that comes out of Taiwan. In my view, while the GC was a solid product, there was no planned next model. Consumers want the latest and greatest, improved and “NEW”. An example, the short Campagnolo dropouts were out by 1976, Masi did not use them for years, basically 1981. The initial order was so large it took that long to use them up. Masi carried the burden of inventory for years. Thank goodness for them that there was no huge component revolution till the mid 1980’s. Keep in mind that Masi Italy brought out the Prestige, then the Volumetrica.
There was no real co-ordination between the two facilities for years. There was minor cross pollenation, the investment cast fork crown, version one did show up on a handful of the USA bikes in the Carlsbad period- it has the cast in F. Masi crest. A definite step up from the Fischer for no other reason that the sand cast crown took much labor to file into submission.

there is a Masi History book with the European view, in Italian, I would like to get a copy of that. Rarely a copy comes up for auction in Italy, not cheap.

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Old 11-18-23, 09:43 AM
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Then there was the later Masi redesign of the lugs and crown under Kirkbride’s guidance through Henry James about 1983 onward . I have one of those bikes, nice bike, geometry updated- they should have come up with a new model name. The differences were that significant in my view. And meh on the head lug designs.
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Old 11-18-23, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BMC_Kid
Gorgeous bikes, both of them. I have enough bikes now, or so my wife says but I've always wanted either a De Rosa or Merckx, from the same time frame as yours. Good to know they seem to be similar or near identical in ride and handling. I think either one will slot in between the characteristics of my 1991 SLX Zullo and 1989 Tesch S-22. At least that is what I'll tell my wife when she asks why I bought another bike, LOL! Also, I NEED a frame to hand my spare 11-speed Super Record group on, right?
I picked up Barrettscv's Merckx when he was selling the majority of his bikes last year. Got there too late to get the DeRosa, unfortunately. The Merckx rides beautifully. You probably do need one.
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Old 11-18-23, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
How involved was Merckx with Falcon?

Obviously there were major changes between licensed and actual production, but that may have also been an important stepping stone.
My understanding is it was simply a licensing agreement, just like the Merckx by Miyata. Merckx never rode one himself, but agreed for a fee to have his name involved.

I have seen many Falcons, and shocked when I've seen them in full Campy regalia. Shocked because the frames themselves had stamped drop-outs, zero racing geometry and seemed poorly designed or built.

The Miyata on the other hand….only seen pictures and they look pretty.
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Old 11-18-23, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz
My understanding is it was simply a licensing agreement, just like the Merckx by Miyata. Merckx never rode one himself, but agreed for a fee to have his name involved.

I have seen many Falcons, and shocked when I've seen them in full Campy regalia. Shocked because the frames themselves had stamped drop-outs, zero racing geometry and seemed poorly designed or built.

The Miyata on the other hand….only seen pictures and they look pretty.
the top tier Merckx Falcons had a decent crown but geometry wise were a typical long top tube Ernie Clements design, no different from the series Falcons. I was disappointed, was hoping for a frame that appeared to have Merckx’s thumbprint.
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Old 11-18-23, 02:15 PM
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jet sanchEz
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I'm not sure how many hour record frames were made but 1 if them is on permanent display at the Eddy Merckx subway station in Brussels


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