Medium Size Dog

Anyone out there have any info or experience about the possible age and quality of these rims? Thank you for your wisdom and expertise.

ryansu

Araya was standard equipment on Road and Mountain bikes in the 70s and 80s I have always found them sturdy and dependable.

balindamood

I like them.

A lot.

Medium Size Dog

Thank you! That's exactly what I hoped to hear.

3alarmer 

.
....I can't tell from looking at your photos, but there were some generational differences over the years with ARAYA 27" rims.


The condensed version of this history is that the earliest examples had little or no bead hook on the rims...so it's nearly impossible to fully inflate a more modern high pressure 27" tyre on one and not have it blow off the rim. Later on they got more of a bead hook, so they become less problematic as you progress in time. Once again, I can't see yours well enough to determine if there is or is not an adequate bead hook. If you have them in person, reach down in there and run your fingernail up from the bead seat to see if there's a hook or overhang. Some of these early bead hook adaptations are not really all that secure either.

Otherwise, they are serviceable rims, if a bit on the heavy side.

oneclick 

As I remember they made a number of rims with this basic profile, varying in width, The 27s I have only seen in 1 1/4" width.

And as it happens just built this morning I used the first of a pair of these rims (700c version) that are going on to Gian Robert hubs, the pair for a current Torpado project. It was a simple build, rim trued without any difficulty. The second rim I took off another hub, and after it was free there was a BIG saddle-shape, about 3 inches, but smooth, no kinks. I straightened it with a pair of 4x4s about 2 feet long and a 2x4 about 3 feet long. You place the 4x4s to act as supports for the low points of the rim, and you do press-ups with the 2x4 across the high points. Now it sits up nice and tight to the one I just built, and I *know* that's true.

bikemig 

Riding a set of araya 27 inch rims on my 70s Sekine SHS 271. These were original equipment and still going strong. No bead so you want to run a wired on clincher and don't pump the tire past 75 PSI or so.

Medium Size Dog

Once again I thank you all for chiming in so quickly with helpful info. 3alarmer, I think this photo shows the bead of which you speak and while lightweight is nice i like ryansu's assessment and I'm a big fan of sturdy and dependable. And bikemig, it just seems to me that in general wire bead clinchers on old rims is the more sturdy and dependable option.

Road Fan

The ones intended for wired-on tires have a "W/O" stamped in the inner wall near the valve hole.

Also they have had rims designed fro different tires, 27 x 1 ĵ, 27 x 1 ⅛, and possibly one made for 27 x 1. Or I could be mixing up Araya with Ukai. Any case, I have a pair of the 1 ĵ in 36 holes with Schraider valves. I was going to try them on my slowly-growing 1981 Trek 720, but I just popped on a set of 700c with CR-18s and 30 mm Strada Bianca, and I think there may be a set of 35 mm clinchers in that bike's future. I've been looking for a set of Wolber or Super Champions, but I don't think it's in the cards. But for the 720, it even looks like carefully-laid fenders might be possible.

Road Fan

Older rims without hooks are intended for wire-bead (aka wired-on) tires. I have a set of non-hooked Dunlop Special Lightweight 27x 1 ĵ rims (laced ot the SA rear hub and the front hub that came with my 1952 Rudge. On them came a set of 27" John Bull gumwalls, for which I found an advert from about 1955, so I tend to believe my rims (one at least, with the Presta) is original to my bike. I bought a set of Specialized Roadsport the appropriate spec, and the fit and bead installation was easy and perfect - they were clearly both designed go be compatible. I've ridden it at 90 psi with no problems except that it is too harsh.

Anyway, I guess folding clinchers were not on the market before the 1980s or so. I don't know when they actually started, but my 1984 Trek came new with wire-bead tires.

jonwvara 

Yes. But they're beyond sturdy--almost indestructible, in my experience. I once t-boned a bulldog while descending a hill at about 20 mph (he ran up an embankment where I couldn't see him until he popped int the road right under my front wheel). Concusssion, separated shoulder, destroyed the frame and fork of my old Fuji. But the Araya rim was fine--not even knocked out of true.

T-Mar

The subject rims appears appear to have a hooked edge on the inside of the sidewall to retain high pressure tyres, particularly those with non-rigid, fibre beads. Originally, Araya stamped "HP" for High Pressure but the HP designation was later dropped, as hooked edges became normal practice.

The basic, aluminum, U-section design for wired-on tyres, with a central stiffening hump, flat sidewalls and stiffening channels in corners was called the 16A. The central stiffening hump of a Westwood rim with the flat sidewalls of an Endrick rim resulted in a composite design, which was often referred to as Westrick.

The basic 16A section dates back to at least 1960. The 27" x 1-1/4" 16A(2) was added to the line sometime during 1967-1970. It was replaced by the 16A(3), which used a similar section but now incorporated a hooked edge on the inside of the sidewall and the corner channels were now hollow. The latter feature lightened the rim with only a small impact on stiffness. The 16A (3) was introduced sometime during 1976-1980 and survived through to 1990, possibly 1991.

Most midrange sport models started transitioning to box section 700C in the late 1970s. The 16A(3) would have have been seen on some midrange sport models in the late 1970s to early 1980s, though progressively fewer as the decade progressed. At the same time, it would have started to move progressively more into the entry level market. Another segment where it was popular in the early to mid-1980s was the grand touring bicycle.

In my experience, the 16A(3) was a good, reliable, but relatively heavy, wired-on rim for its era.

T-Mar

Let me try to clarify things. Wired-on refers to any tyre with a hoop encased in each bead of the tyre, to retain the tyre on the rim. The hoops can be a rigid material, like steel, or a non-rigid material like the Kevlar fibre used in folding tyres. Both are wired-on tyres. The term also applies to any rim designed for this type of tyre.

Clinchers are a distinctly different style. Clinchers do not have an internal hoop to retain the tyre on the rim. Instead they rely on a a much thicker bead which fits under a very pronounced hooked edge of the rim (see attached scan). Sometimes they incorporate extended flaps to fully encase the tube, making a rim strip unnecessary. In Asian countries, clincher tyres are often referred to a "beaded edge" tyres, with the rims and/or tyres marked B/E.

Both wired-on and clincher tyres originated in the 1890s along with the single tube and double tube (aka tubular) tyre. For reasons I won't get into here, clinchers died out in the USA during the very early 20th century. American started referring to wired-on tyres as clinchers even before the introduction of the folding wired-on tyre, which was circa 1977 with the Elan TS. However, true clinchers persisted in several counties countries, particularly in Asia. A case in point, Araya offered it's 3A B/E rim at least as late as 1984. Tyre terminology was a big issue in the 1970s

While technically a misnomer, clincher has become synonymous with wired-on though common use. Any rim, either with or without hooks, that is designed to for a tyre with hoops enclosed in the beads, is a wired-on rim. The hooks on the inside edge of wired-on sidewalls were intended to retain high pressure wired-on tyres with non-rigid beads.

Medium Size Dog

My curiosity about the smooth bead and hook bead stuff led me to a thread from '06 and '12 thread called Help!!! Tire Recommendations that I thought connected nicely so I commented on it to revive it. I rode thousands of miles on Weinmann 210 36 spoke wheels not knowing or caring that i was just a few pump strokes away from a blowout. I just liked the smoothing out the bumpy road ride with about 60-70 psi and still do. It's nice now knowing i can do this on the classic rims with less risk. So much so that i'm hoping to find another pair of those Weinmanns for future wheel building. And jonwvara, I should be receiving a new TRIPLIZER in the next couple of days!

jonwvara 

Oh, hi, Charlie --I hadn't noticed that it was you. Yes, you ought to have it by the end of the week.

suntour123

Although various versions of this rim were made from the mid 1960's on 16a model, these rims are post 1980, pre 1980 rims in whichever variant have the 27 11/4 after the word Araya on the same line and post 1980 rims have the 27 11/4 as this set under the word araya and a slightly different font. Hope this helps.

John E

I am using an early 1970s Araya rim on the back of my UO-8, with a 27 x 1-1/4" tire. I don't dare go beyond 80 PSI, but anything in the 70-80 PSI range seems to work nicely. I run a 700Cx28 in front to minimize toe-to-tire overlap, but I like having the extra width in back when I fill the panniers.

polymorphself 

Have a pair on my 1985 Miyata 310 and no complaints. Look and ride well and haven't had any issues. As others have said they were extremely common and standard wheels and Japanese quality is generally top notch, especially when you get into the 80's.

2fat2fly

I bought a Nishiki International in 1977, it came with a set of those style Araya rims. The sides were straight walled, no 'hook'. I regularly ran 90 psi on that bike, maybe even more and never had an issue. I generally ran what ever 27x1 1/8" skinwall wire bead tires I could find cheap. A few that come to mind are Trimline, IRL, and Cycle Pro each rated at 90 psi or more. I never had a tire blow off the rim. I did the same on quite a few steel rim bikes back then as well.
I did see a few guys have their steel wheels blow out when the tire folded the sidewall over on the steel rim but usually those were on department store type rims.
I've seen that pattern from both Ukai and Araya as well, the two are almost identical other than the stampings.

Chuck M 

Even knocked out of true they apparently recover well. In the early 80s I hit a gravel patch at probably over 20 mph and the front wheel went out of true enough I carried the bike home. Pulled the QR and took it to the sporting goods store where I bought the bike thinking I needed a new wheel. The guy had it straight before I could even browse the store long enough to drool over the bikes and accessories.

I now have a three bikes with them. One set is alloy, one is steel with the Satylite coating and one set steel and chrome. The Satylite rims look like alloy at first glance and the chrome ones are on an '83 Bridgestone I picked up last weekend. Neither of the steel sets show any signs of rust and the chrome ones have probably not been cleaned for years.

suntour123

I can say with some certainty now after having several araya rims to decode from from original bikes that the first two numbers are the week made and the second two letters are year ( these being later decals can only be 1983 and not 1973) it seems like they used 1-10 for 1970-1980 then recycled 1-10 for 1980-1990. Its the same on these 27 11/4 rims well at 16b tubulars and 20a 700c rims. ( survey of 30+ rims all seem to indicate my theory). so these are 21 week of 1983. The last two numbers i am unable to confirm as having any meaning, nothing repeats or seems relevant.
Hope the helps.

dddd

This was my experience as well, I routinely ran 90psi on many of the 1970's Araya hookless alloy rims and never had a tire blow off.

Weinmann on the other hand definitely had QC issues relating to rim diameter, I've had a few that would not hold more than 75psi for long before the bead climbed over the edge of the rim.

Both brands did have occasional QC issues relating to the weld joints on their OEM-spec'd single-walled rims, caused a maddeningly fierce pulsation when the pads dipped into the over-ground joint area (which was un-fixable).
I suspect that certain heavily-negotiated OEM purchases may have exceeded the price discount level where consistently good quality could still be expected.

Rochmn

I'm confused and cannot determine if the new tires I purchased will work on my Araya rims. One explanation in this forum says my rims, Araya 27 x 1 1/4 w/o requires a wired-on tire, meaning a hoop encased in each bead. My rims are straight-side bead, the tires I ordered, then installed, noticed the wording "MOUNT ONLY ON HOOKED RIMS", then contacted the bike shop where I ordered, then removed when bike shop said they wouldn't work. When I requested a return, they said they would but they didn't know what tire I would need. They offered free shipping to return so they were customer friendly. However, they said they were stumped and referred me to this forum, said I might be able to use the tires. I have reviewed this forum and still cannot decide if the new tires I have will work. My new tires are Continental SuperSport Plus 27 x 1-1/8". It says right on the side of the tire "MOUNT ONLY ON HOOKED RIMS". The tires specification are Steel tire bead, so maybe I can assume this means that there is a "hoop" of steel around the bead, also meaning this is a "w/o", "wired-on" tire and is safe to use? I have picture of the rim bead area and the Araya stamp which apparently indicates a time of manufacture but cannot post pictures yet. The Araya stamp has the size stamping underneath the Araya logo. The rim has absolutely no hooking whatsoever, appears that there is less (or no) hooking compared to the post picture from "Medium Size Dog" posted 9-25-20, 06:32 PM. Thanks anyone for your help!

daverup 

I don't know if the tires you bought will work. On my hookless Araya rims, I use wire bead panaracer pasela.

ThermionicScott 

Welcome to the forums, @Rochmn. Your tires have wire beads according to the Continental site (you would know if they are foldable!) I suspect the "Mount only on hooked rims" warning is mostly a liability dodge -- as long as you keep the tire pressures reasonable, you should be able to use them on your rims.