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What's the verdict on water resistant down?

Old 10-21-19, 05:22 PM
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What's the verdict on water resistant down?

A friend of mine needs a puffy, and asked me for advice about this. I've never had dwr down anything, but I told her I'd ask around. It's been on the market for years, maybe someone in here has some?
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Old 10-21-19, 05:55 PM
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some thoughts from backpacking geeks: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/...-treated-down/
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Old 10-21-19, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
A friend of mine needs a puffy, and asked me for advice about this. I've never had dwr down anything, but I told her I'd ask around. It's been on the market for years, maybe someone in here has some?
I don't have any at present, had to look up what "dwr" stood for. Found this. "Durable water repellent, or DWR , is a coating added to fabrics at the factory to make them water-resistant (hydrophobic). Most factory-applied treatments are fluoropolymer based; these applications are quite thin and not always effective."

Wonder what the environmental impacts are?
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Old 10-21-19, 06:41 PM
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Warm, lightweight, compressible (eh, that's debatable), generally very "comfy" feeling. No different than any other down in a rainstorm. Maybe a little useful in a light sprinkle of rain, but only if you keep up with the DWR maintenance, otherwise it wets out like anything else.
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Old 10-21-19, 09:59 PM
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I was there and was thinking what the F is a puffy? After reading the posts I still don’t know something about keeping dry? Seattle Forrest’s area is rainy. I had to comment because I’m bored but I’m listening to Tool’s new album trying to figure it out . This Friday Tool in San Antonio and I will be there to see what is all about.
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Old 10-21-19, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I was there and was thinking what the F is a puffy? After reading the posts I still don’t know something about keeping dry? Seattle Forrest’s area is rainy. I had to comment because I’m bored but I’m listening to Tool’s new album trying to figure it out . This Friday Tool in San Antonio and I will be there to see what is all about.
Ever see the TV show Person of Interest? When Reece is walking around wearing a black vest that could be mistaken for a black Michelin man outfit, that's a puffy (vest or jacket).

They look fragile as all get out, like the first branch that touches them would pop them like a balloon, but mountaineers choose to use them, so, :shrug:.

Last edited by rseeker; 10-21-19 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 10-21-19, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by riverdrifter View Post
Warm, lightweight, compressible (eh, that's debatable), generally very "comfy" feeling. No different than any other down in a rainstorm. Maybe a little useful in a light sprinkle of rain, but only if you keep up with the DWR maintenance, otherwise it wets out like anything else.
Thanks. That's pretty much what I expected, and what most (but not all) of the people in the BPL thread had to say too.
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Old 10-21-19, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg View Post
I don't have any at present, had to look up what "dwr" stood for. Found this. "Durable water repellent, or DWR , is a coating added to fabrics at the factory to make them water-resistant (hydrophobic). Most factory-applied treatments are fluoropolymer based; these applications are quite thin and not always effective."

Wonder what the environmental impacts are?
Environmental impact are bad. I don't think the progress you describe is what's applied to down, "feathers" are different enough from engineered fabrics that you need a different approach. One of the links from the thread @hazetguy linked says it's waxes and other types of coating, still not environmentally friendly. People mostly call it dwr down because most people are already familiar with dwr, which works amazingly well.
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Old 10-21-19, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I was there and was thinking what the F is a puffy? After reading the posts I still don’t know something about keeping dry? Seattle Forrest’s area is rainy. I had to comment because I’m bored but I’m listening to Tool’s new album trying to figure it out . This Friday Tool in San Antonio and I will be there to see what is all about.
I thought it gets cold in Texas?
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Old 10-21-19, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I thought it gets cold in Texas?
Looked up puffy. That ain’t nuthin but a fancy ole sweat shirt but I get it light and compact and breathable for serious back packing and hiking. In Texas we just sweat and hope we don’t get heat stroke.
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Old 10-22-19, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Environmental impact are bad. I don't think the progress you describe is what's applied to down, "feathers" are different enough from engineered fabrics that you need a different approach. One of the links from the thread @hazetguy linked says it's waxes and other types of coating, still not environmentally friendly. People mostly call it dwr down because most people are already familiar with dwr, which works amazingly well.
personally i would make sure instead of any perfluorocarbons, only natural nano-lipids are used to treat the down. That accomplishes the same task without creating any by-products that are harmful to the environment. The consumer use part of any treatment is it won’t last any where near as long as natural down and needs to be well taken care of.

btw dwr treated fabrics are different and the chemicals used have by-products that are both toxic and persist in the environment. patagonia has invested millions in the research and development of an environmental friendly treatment without compromising the performance of the fabric. That will be a very helpful development!!!!
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Old 10-22-19, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I was there and was thinking what the F is a puffy? After reading the posts I still don’t know something about keeping dry? Seattle Forrest’s area is rainy. I had to comment because I’m bored but I’m listening to Tool’s new album trying to figure it out . This Friday Tool in San Antonio and I will be there to see what is all about.
More like damp, and cool.

It only rains about 36 inches a year in Seattle. More rain in Florida, where it rains more than 52 inches of rain a year... but then... it is "tropical rain."
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Old 10-22-19, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by clemsongirl View Post
personally i would make sure instead of any perfluorocarbons, only natural nano-lipids are used to treat the down. That accomplishes the same task without creating any by-products that are harmful to the environment. The consumer use part of any treatment is it won’t last any where near as long as natural down and needs to be well taken care of.

btw dwr treated fabrics are different and the chemicals used have by-products that are both toxic and persist in the environment. patagonia has invested millions in the research and development of an environmental friendly treatment without compromising the performance of the fabric. That will be a very helpful development!!!!
Patagucci was treating down with some kind of electrical process for a little while. They only ever made one jacket with it.

It sounds like hydrophobic down isn't the way to go.
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Old 10-22-19, 10:36 AM
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For what it's worth, the warmest light weight puffy seems to be one from a British company called Crux. Women's medium uses 125 g (4.4 oz) of 900+ fill.

She's trying to decide between that and the Arc'teryx, which isn't quite as warm, but uses synthetic fill in areas prone to wetting out, and looks better.

Neither uses hydrophobic down, seems like both use very resistant shell fabrics. She can't go wrong either way.
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Old 10-22-19, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I thought it gets cold in Texas?
Cold in Texas is the same as early fall in a lot of places.
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Old 10-22-19, 11:18 AM
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It works well but if you're regularly riding in a damp/wet area, go with synthetic.
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Old 10-22-19, 11:25 AM
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Water resistant down has been a go to for ducks longer than written history. But it does require regular upkeep. Funny story - 6th grade my dad ordered a box of ducklings from Sears Roebuck. 15 in a low box so small they couldn't rattle or get hurt. Every one made the trip from Chicago to Boston. So, that spring, they were in a fenced off area in our yard with a kid's wading pool. I came home from school one day to a racket out back. Rushed over to see a completely soggy duckling desperately racing back and forth across the pool, way to heavy to be able to climb out that slippery surface.

No mom. Poor sucker never got the lesson on oiling feathers. He learned. Never happened again.

The other down story, this one involving humans. When my roommate and I drove the west after graduation, we made improvised "tent's form all manner of tarps and whatnot. Most worked well. We spent a very wet night near Blaine Washington (the far NW corner of our lower 48). Around 4 am a puddle moved into our tent. I was in a minimalist dacron mummy bag. My friend in a very warm down bag. I woke up with the dawn around 6 am to find I was soaking wet. My friend had been up since the water came in. After envying him all trip, I realized that synthetics had a a real place at the table!

Ben
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Old 10-22-19, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post

Neither uses hydrophobic down, seems like both use very resistant shell fabrics. She can't go wrong either way.
900 fill is a nice jacket!
When I was traveling around Germany in the shoulder season, I saw most folks wearing jackets like this. Down fill, water resistant shell, chic look, dark colors. Me? Base layer, heavy fleece, tactical style softshell that was NOT chic, did NOT cover up water getting on it, and screamed "Look at me, part of the US military!"
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Old 10-22-19, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
More like damp, and cool.

It only rains about 36 inches a year in Seattle. More rain in Florida, where it rains more than 52 inches of rain a year... but then... it is "tropical rain."
Don't tell them that, everyone will want to move here!

I asked this kid how long it's been raining, he answered "I can't say; I'm only 17 years old."
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Old 10-28-19, 12:57 AM
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Follow up

She bought the Arc'teryx. Says the fit is perfect, it looks tailored. Color is beautiful. It's much warmer than she expected for the weight. Not hydrophobic down. She says the shell fabric is very water resistant though. Couldn't be happier. Spent the weekend playing in the snow in it and sent me some pictures when she got home.
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