zebkedic

I had many people who ask about the Salsa Fargo and haven't seen many that had a Gates Carbon Belt Drive Rohloff setup. My buddy Jerry took the time show off his setup yesterday a little that he uses for road and mountain bike style touring yesterday in this video and I thought maybe others had questions or things that might help if the were considering a Fargo. Hope everyone is safe and trying to do a little peddling.


Thanks,
Brad

blargman

Is he using the Rohloff A-12? I'm thinking of doing this for my Fargo. Currently running single speed but I'd like some gears and don't want to deal with derailleur, chain issues. I think it's a great idea and I don't know why more people don't do it. Has he found any limitations in the gear range? I get that a 10-50 mullet build would definitely get me more range but I'm curious if this will be enough for me.

Rick

I have a Rohloff equipped bicycle. I have seen this video before. From what little they show of the drivetrain. It looks to me like his bicycle has the Quick release type of stays not the thru axle. As far as gear range goes, If your GVW is going to be more than 100 Kilos Rohloff wants the outside gear ratio to be a 2.5/1. My belt drive has a 50tooth up front and a 20 tooth in the rear. This allows me to comfortably pedal up to around 25 mph, with a 26" diameter wheel, while using a cadence of 95 rpm. Thorn sets up some of there bicycles even lower geared than what Rohloff recommends. You can always setup the ratio higher. I believe the gear inches on my Rohloff bicycle are between 17-93 and the gear inches on my tandem are 24-105. I find that I am usually going down hill before I reach 25 mph. This video as others do talk or make little stabs at how the Rohloff shifts. The Rohloff hub is totally predictable and will respond in the same exact way every time you shift it. When you shift, you are the clutch. A timed pause in your pedaling while shifting or shifting at the correct point over the top of the pedal stroke is recommended. Being able to shift to any gear stopped or moving and not needing to waste time on adjusting and cleaning your drivetrain. Not needing to carry or look for oil and cleaning equipment, out ways those miniscule friction looses created by the Rohloff hub with the gates belt.

Tourist in MSN

I can't speak for him. I have had my Rohloff bike for seven years, chain drive. Quick release skewer. 26 inch wheels, I usually have 57mm tires on that bike.

Rohoff has a range of 526 percent. Or, you could think of it as a 1X system with a 14 speed cassette from 10T up to 52T or 53T for range.

I use a 16T rear sprocket (standard issue on new Rohloff hubs with chain drive) and a 44T chainring for riding around near home unladen where the most weight on my bike is a grocery pannier or two. The range with that chainring is 19.8 to 104 gear inches. Near home that is more than adequate for climbing the steepest uphills and also pedaling down the shallow downhills. (Chainring to sprocket ratio of 2.75.)

Touring, I remove four chain links and use a 36T chainring, that gives me the lower gears I need for pulling a heavy load up a hill. That gives me a range of 16.2 to 85.1 gear inches. With this low of a top gear, I spin out on shallow downhills where I often would prefer to keep pedaling, but I do not want to give up the low gears that this combination offers so I just live with this range of gears. (Chainring to sprocket ratio of 2.25)

I have three touring bikes, the other two are 3X8 systems. The way I have geared the derailleur bikes, they have a total range of 558 percent.

I agree with Rick on the way a Rohloff shifts. I grew up on bikes that had either Sturmey Archer 3 speed hubs or non-indexed derailleur systems. Which means that I grew up on bikes that you could not put much torque on the drive train while you shift. So, I have zero complaint about how the Rohloff shifts because the way that I have shifted bikes for my whole life works just fine with the Rohloff. I simply reduce my cadence for the split second that it takes to shift.

I have drop bars, use the Hubbub adapter to mount my Rohloff shifter on the right side handlebar end.

The bike in the video had the EX box for shift cables, mine also has the EX box. Some bikes use an internal cable system instead. Rohloff has two shift cables, one for up shifting and one for down shifting, indexing is in the hub, both cables are normally slack except when shifting.

skookum

I have three Rohloff bikes.(So I must like them)

What MSN and Rick said, I don't have a problem with Rohloff shifting, but you have to be aware of how it works.

One has a belt drive, which works as advertised, but I prefer chain drive. If you ever want to change gearing, it is pricey to do it on a belt drive, so make sure you know exactly what you want.

I have used my Rohloff bikes on the GDMBR and the Rohloff system worked superbly. I find the gear range good for loaded touring, I prefer low gears to get up the big hills, and I dont miss the high gears for fast downhills.

blargman

Thanks for all the responses! Now I just need to figure out what parts I need. Reading the Salsa site, it seems only the 135mm with various spacers/replacement dropouts is "certified" by Rohloff. I'm curious if that's what he's running here. I'll see if my LBS knows any answers to these questions

skookum Just curious, why do you like the chain drive better? I was kind of looking forward to not worrying about cleaning/greasing my chain anymore

Tourist in MSN

If you order the hub or a wheel with the hub, make sure you order exactly what you need. I do not know what the options now are, but when I ordered mine seven years ago, there were:

• Three colors.
• Skewer option or nutted axle.
• Ex Box for shifter cables or the internal gear cables. In most cases, the frame cable routing is a useful guide for which shifter type you want. My frame cable guides were designed for the EX Box.
• Rim brake or disc brake. At the time I ordered mine, the only disc option was a four bolt Rohloff pattern disc rotor.
• 32 or 36 spoke.
• ADDENDUM ADDED LATER: Torque arresting method.

But now there are various fat bike options too, but I have not researched them at all so can't comment on them.

Make sure the wheel builder reads the Rohloff instructions for wheel building. For example, for a 26 inch or 700c wheel, two cross instead of three cross.

And since I have chain drive, I can't comment on anything associated with belt drive other than I have heard that belt drives have to have a chainline (or is it beltline?) that is nearly perfect.

If you are used to derailleurs, you want your shifter cable to be nice and taught. But Rohloff, they need to be quite loose. Otherwise, when you shift there is a greater chance that you might land in between gears. I have about a half gear of play in each cable, thus if I was in gear 10, I can move my shifter from about 9.5 to 10.5 with just the slack in the cable. Having that much play is normal, you get used to it.

I bought my Rohloff from an internet seller in Germany. I expected to pay customs duty when it arrived, but the mail carrier dropped off the box without needing me to pay any customs. And when you buy something to be shipped from a foreign country, you really want to triple check that you are ordering the exact list of options that you want so it all fits together when you get it.

What kind of bars do you plan to use? Will the Rohloff shifter fit on that bar diameter?

Photo of my Rohloff bike in the type of place that bike was built for, below.

blargman

Thanks for all the tips! I have a Salsa Fargo TI, so very similar to the gentleman who posted this original post. I've worked out what I believe to be exactly what I need I think from this cyclemonkey website that sells them. Though I'm checking if my LBS can get them from QBP(their bike part distributor).



Searching the Fargo TI Q&A thread on their site, looks like I need a few things to make the boost thru axle work but it is supposedly "certified" by Rohloff.

"boost reduction plates (FS2360), the Rohloff alternator plate, and a QR driveside alternator plate"

As for the shifters/bars. I have a set of Crust Towel Rack drop bars, and while it's pricey (heck i'm already buying a rohloff). I'm thinking of these shifters made by CINQ, which appear to be the only true road shifter for Rohloff
https://www.cyclemonkey.com/shifters...loff-or-pinion

Tourist in MSN

In my list of options, I went from memory and forgot to list the hub torque arresting method, added an addendum to my list.

My frame was designed for the OEM plate which is the option you listed. In the photo below there is an unusually long slot in the non-drive side dropout that the axle goes into, and there is a rectangular knob that slides into that slot too.



If the lack of quick release lever looks odd, when I travel I use bolt through skewers instead of quick release. A thief would have to have a 5mm allen wrench to remove the wheel, thus the lack of quick release lever.

Also in the above photo, you can see that there is a cable guide under the non-drive side chainstay that holds the two cables in place, I previously mentioned that the cable guides on the frame help determine which cable method you use. And in your case, your shifter does too.

If the Fargo has a long dropout like that, then that OEM torque plate is likely the correct option to order. But you need to confirm that with someone that knows that frame better than I do.

Looks like the only difference between yours and mine is color and mine is for rim brake.

That brake and shifter setup looks like they use something similar to the Rohbox to enable brifters to be used as the shifter. One lever is for downshift, the other lever for upshift. Those levers look like they run the shifter cables towards the space in between the brake levers where you might want to have a handlebar bag, similar to older Shimano brifters did.

A friend of mine had Shimano brifters on his touring bike, he used V brake noodles to re-route his cables so that he could use a handlebar bag. If your cable runs are a problem, you might need V brake noodles for that.



I use the Hubbub adapter to use the stock Rohloff twist grip shifter on my bar end. But I have bar end shifters on several other bikes, so I am used to reaching to that point to shift. I also used V brake noodles to route my cables differently from the shifter.



Shifter on right handlebar end is a bit hard to see in this photo, but it is clear if you look hard for it.



This is probably the best list of options for shifting a Rohloff. The photo of the Hubbub adapter is however wrong, he has some wooden DIY thing in the photo, not the aluminum adapter that I bought.
https://www.cyclingabout.com/rohloff...op-handlebars/

I think you will like the Rohloff.

But regarding the boost thru axle stuff, I am clueless on that so can't suggest anything.

skookum

I had to change the gearing on my belt drive, it cost a fortune. The belt wheels are expensive and you need a new belt as you cannot change the belt length. And I carried a spare belt so I need another belt. The belts are fragile if you don 't handle them right, you have to be careful how you store and carry them in your luggage. The belt tension is fairly critical as well, so you need a tension gauge, another expense. Gates has an app on your phone where you pluck the belt like a guitar string and the app records the sound and figures out the tension. Very clever. it doesn't work that well. I do find that once it is set up properly you can tell by feel if the tension is right, but it takes a bit of experience.
Having said all that, the belt drive has worked perfectly and if the above stuff is not an issue, go for the belt.
Cycle monkey set it all up for me, they are excellent but they are not cheap.

Rick

Did you go up or down in the gear range? I do not carry a tension gauge. Once the belt tension is set up, it is not necessary to do anything else. The belts don't stretch. If you have A frame specifically setup for the Rohloff like I do, you can leave the belt a little looser without any problems. Cycle Monkey and Peter White Cycles are both authorized to do Rohloff repair or rebuild.

Tourist in MSN

I was not aware that Peter White could work on a Rohloff. Thanks for sharing.

skookum

I needed lower gears so I went with a smaller front belt wheel so a different sized belt. Setting it up I had to get the tension right. I guessed and it worked out okay, but its nice to have the tension gauge. I realize that belts don't stretch , so if you don't do anything to your drive train it won't need adjusting. With a chain, tension is not so critical.
Some friends have Tout Terrain Silk Roads and did a coast to coast Canada ride with no issues and went to Europe the next year and started having Rohloff issues on one bike. It happened that the belt tension was too tight and it had affected something in the hub. As they were in Germany at the time it wasn't difficult to get it fixed. -Sorry don't remember exactly what the problem was, but belt tension is important.
I'm not saying the belt drive is not good, just trying to explain why I prefer chain.

Rick

I need the low gear more than a higher gear so I will leave my 50 tooth to 20 tooth alone. I tried several handle bars before I settled on Casey's Crazy bar. After the handlebar change I bought the Paul cantilever brake levers. They give a large improvement over the road levers. I was thinking about the Avid BB7 brakes but read an article about the plastic melting and brake pads falling out. I bought the Klampers to avoid the plastic. I have followed the Cyclingabout blog for info on the Rohloff hub. That's were I read about the Crazy bars and having the belt a little looser so there is reduced friction. Getting rid of the drop bars Allowed me to put on the optional left handed Rohloff shifter. I like it better than the Co-Motion Rohloff shifter. Ergon makes some Rohloff specific grips but only for the right handed people. I bought the non Rohloff version in cork for swept back bars and cut the left grip down myself. If someone else wants to do this the inside of the grip needs to be supported so the plastic doesn't disintegrate. This happened to me. So on my second set of grips, I put the largest dowel material that would fit in it and also wrapped some tape around the dowel for a snug fit. I cut it with no problem's then had to run a wood screw into the dowel so I could pull it out of the grip with pliers. I have had my Rohloff for over seven years now and so far no problems.

Tourist in MSN

I do not use a belt so all I can comment on belts is info I got from others. And I am careful about my sources of into, the more credible a source is, the more I will rely on it. This guy has more experience with belts than I ever will have, so I consider him credible. And he has some interesting comments on belt tension.

If I went with a belt, I am sure I would run it tighter than he does, but based on his video I would consider the extra keeper wheel he has and not get obsessive about tension.

I thought of one more suggestion for a new Rohloff user with an EX Box for shifting - If you install your shifter cables yourself, it is easy to make sure that both outer housings are identical length. Then both gear cables are identical length. Measure that length before you install them in case you want to carry a spare gear cable on a bike tour, so that it is cut to the correct length. I know the gear cable length on my Rohloff bike to the mm, so I can easily swap cables. I have never broken a cable, but if you break one and do not have a spare, with the EX Box, the only way to both upshift and downshift if you have broken a cable is to take the EX Box off the hub (thumbscrew, it is easy) and use an 8mm open end or box wrench to shift the gears until you replace your cable.

Changing oil is easy, do that once a year. This video is almost 15 years old, nothing has changed.

Rick

I agree Cyclingabout is the best source for anything Rohloff. My belt is just a little looser than recommended. My bicycle came with the snubber. Rohloff states that without the snubber the innards of the hub could be damaged if a belt were to snap.

Because I changed to various handlebars before I stuck with the Crazy bar. I have changed the Rohloff cables several times. Some time in the future when I change cables I will measure and make a spare set. Thanks fore the info, I guess two heads are better than one.

Ariane

No Rohloff say without a snubber the belt could skip and cause injury and they don't want to get sued. The couple of times I have contacted Rohloff for technical help they have shall we say been a PITA to deal with always being negative and stating if you don't follow what we say the warranty is invalidated. It's our way or no way attitude. Really quite officious and irksome. I met the Rohloff rep at a show and they are a bit of a knobber. Took an instant dislike to them. But my bike with Rohloff and Gates Belt is now running 3 years without problems and without a snubber. I think if you had the old CDT belts and sprockets without the centre track then the belt could jump if not sufficiently taut. But with the CDX belts skipping is not a problem. I just judge the tension by touch, not too taut and not too loose so it would jump and it has been totally fine over 25k miles. Not a single issue. I think too much is made of setting the belt at a specific 'correct' tension using a phone app or tensionometer. It's BS. My experience is that it doesn't really matter and Alle Denham CyclingAbout whose has much more experience than myself seems to support this as well. Imho having a belt too tight could cause premature wear on the Rohloff axle and bearings along with the BB bearings which could be terminal so to my mind not so tight is better but obviously not stupidly loose which is clearly not going to work. Like Gates' car cam belts, as a rough guide, I work on the rule of thumb of just being able to turn the belt laterally through 90 degrees. Too easy then the belt needs tightening. Too hard or not possible then the belt is too tight and will wreck pulley bearings. But I hardly have to adjust it anyway I think once in several years. I don't get punctures so the wheel doesn't have to come off.

I have another bike with Rohloff and chain, but I prefer the belt drive Rohloff, totally silent and maintenance free. Just wash it with water. Gates belts are a lot more robust than many would have you believe. These people tend to be the ones who don't actually have any real experience of riding a Gates belt drive bike. If a spare belt is all you need to carry then it's hardly a hardship. They are pretty light and easily go down the back of a pannier. Most of the time general day riding I don't carry a spare, some times I do on tour, depending on the length of the tour and where I am riding. Not a very logical approach but the original belt is still in very good condition after 3 years.

Regards changing gearing. If you have an eccentric bottom bracket then you can fit larger or smaller rear sprockets e.g. 20 or 22 without needing to change belt length as there is sufficient movement in setting the eccentric BB to allow for a slightly longer or shorter belt length. Well mine does. Obviously if you wanted a gearing where there was a large difference then you'd have to get a significantly longer or shorter belt.

Ariane

What's a Rohloff A-12?

Rick

It's the 12mm thru axle version of the Rohloff hub.