Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Problem or solution?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Problem or solution?

Old 04-08-20, 03:42 PM
  #1  
Ray9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: New England
Posts: 277

Bikes: Cannondale six-13

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked 42 Times in 10 Posts
Problem or solution?

I naively expected deserted roads during this shelter-in-place advisory but itís just the opposite. There is heavy traffic everywhere. I am certain that the extra traffic is not seeking food or necessities. There are just people who consider furloughs a vacation and they drive like it. Iím wondering what part of ďstay homeĒ they donít understand. I know Iím out on my bike. Am I as bad as they are? My wife and I (retired) have not been out of our house in a car for three weeks-she goes for walks-I ride. Are we part of the problem?
Ray9 is offline  
Likes For Ray9:
Old 04-08-20, 03:48 PM
  #2  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 29,878

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1427 Post(s)
Liked 316 Times in 193 Posts
What if you're not personally making the situation worse? Assume it is the other people who are absolutely 100% at fault. What then are you going to do about it?
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 04:28 PM
  #3  
spelger
Senior Member
 
spelger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 350

Bikes: yes, i have one

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 63 Posts
Kettle calling the teapot black?
spelger is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 04:45 PM
  #4  
Wileyrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Tucson Az
Posts: 1,548

Bikes: 2015 Ridley Fenix, 1983 Team Fuji, 2019 Marin Nail Trail 6, and a few dust collectors

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Liked 114 Times in 76 Posts
So you're upset that other people aren't doing what you aren't doing.

Car, bicycle, honestly I don't see a lot of difference. Not staying home is not staying home regardless of your chosen mode of transportation.
Wileyrat is offline  
Likes For Wileyrat:
Old 04-08-20, 04:55 PM
  #5  
Trevtassie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Down Under
Posts: 1,568

Bikes: A steel framed 26" off road tourer from a manufacturer who thinks they are cool. Giant Anthem. Trek 720 Multiroad pub bike. 10 kids bikes all under 20". Assorted waifs and unfinished projects.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 513 Post(s)
Liked 312 Times in 160 Posts
There is a bit of a difference you can cover a lot of ground in a car.(yes I know bikes can too, but a lot don't) Our government here in Australia doesn't have it's head up it's but and has introduced some sensible rules. You need exercise so you can ride your bike, or go for a jog, but not stupidly far from home. You must socially distance. Groups of unrelated or non households can't exceed 2 people. You can't just drive around randomly, you have to have a reasonable excuse. You can go to the beach, but if the beach gets crowded it gets closed immediately. Some states allow fishing, but again near home and with social distance. Basically if the mob stuff it up, it gets closed down and people get fined or locked up.
Since I need to drive for work sometimes I can definitely see way less traffic. The "great" thing for us here is that the USA is a perfect example of how not to deal with CV-19, the government goes "we don't want to end up like the USA" and the population on average goes "nope, that would be a bad idea" and toes the line.

Last edited by Trevtassie; 04-08-20 at 04:59 PM.
Trevtassie is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 05:35 PM
  #6  
Moe Zhoost
Half way there
 
Moe Zhoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 2,047

Bikes: Many, and the list changes frequently

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 625 Post(s)
Liked 349 Times in 216 Posts
Streets/roads around Durham have very light traffic, about 25% of normal. This is great because it's become a real challenge to ride on the local rail-trails/MUPs. They are so crowded now with folks out exercising/enjoying Spring that it's impossible for a cyclist to navigate using the distancing guidelines.
Moe Zhoost is offline  
Likes For Moe Zhoost:
Old 04-08-20, 05:36 PM
  #7  
Bassmanbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Posts: 700

Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Supersix EVO 3, 2015 Trek 520, 2017 Bike Friday Pocket Rocket

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked 88 Times in 48 Posts
You are not part of the problem, at least in Florida. People are encouraged to go out for a walk or bike ride as long as they stay away from others. But perhaps the other people are not part of the problem either. Maybe they are just going out for a drive without stopping anywhere. Cabin fever can be hell.
Bassmanbob is offline  
Likes For Bassmanbob:
Old 04-08-20, 05:56 PM
  #8  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 26,879
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11348 Post(s)
Liked 2,968 Times in 1,658 Posts
Originally Posted by Ray9 View Post
I am certain that the extra traffic is not seeking food or necessities. There are just people who consider furloughs a vacation and they drive like it.
How are you certain? My car will turn 4 in early July. Just went over 10,200 miles today while I was picking up my cat from the hospital. Drove him there Monday for an emergency and then went to a grocery store.

I think you are just trying to spawn a contentious thread.
indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 04-08-20, 05:57 PM
  #9  
tyrion
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 2,920

Bikes: Breezer Radar

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1567 Post(s)
Liked 611 Times in 307 Posts
Very light traffic in my neighborhood.
tyrion is offline  
Likes For tyrion:
Old 04-08-20, 06:49 PM
  #10  
Steve B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 4,385

Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1616 Post(s)
Liked 323 Times in 230 Posts
Very light traffic here as well - Long Island near NYC. So light I've seen my avg. speed pick up a good 1/2 mph as I generally slow and look at lights and proceed if clear. On Sat. there were far more people walking in the residential neighborhoods then driving and I really noticed that. OTOH, the MUP's and parks are jammed with people and the local governments are starting to crack down and close things up.

Thing about "stay at home" is it really means - in my mind, don't travel where you will be having many interactions with others. Go drive to a place where you generally will be alone if you get out and walk ?, I'm OK with that. I think that after 3 weeks now, people need to get out of the house for mental health reasons alone, just don't stop and chat. Make lunch at home, eat a picnic somewhere with nobody nearby.
Steve B. is offline  
Likes For Steve B.:
Old 04-08-20, 07:22 PM
  #11  
themp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 188

Bikes: Specialized Crosstrail

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
Streets/roads around Durham have very light traffic, about 25% of normal. This is great because it's become a real challenge to ride on the local rail-trails/MUPs. They are so crowded now with folks out exercising/enjoying Spring that it's impossible for a cyclist to navigate using the distancing guidelines.

The Greenways/MUP around Raleigh, NC are totally packed with people walking or riding. I went to the furthest Greenway that ends in Clayton, NC and it was worst than ones around the city. So, I decided to try a Rail-Trail up in Virginia just across the border that starts in La Crosse, VA(Tobacco Heritage Trail) . I checked all the restrictions and it was clear to cross the NC/VA state line(some states required quarantine if you cross into their state). The Rail-Trail was also open based on their website. Takes me about an hour to drive. I did not stop for any breakfast, and ate a bag lunch on the MUP. I never saw another cyclist. I saw around three groups of teenagers off school, that were walking on the trail. All the restrooms on the Rail-Trail were locked. Interstate 85 was packed with trucks, so commerce seems to be running. In the end, I was glad I did this trip, even though I was concerned about the distance from my home. It would take me at least 45 minutes to make it over to Durham's rail-trail
themp is offline  
Old 04-08-20, 07:29 PM
  #12  
Litespud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill NC
Posts: 790

Bikes: 2000 Litespeed Vortex Chorus 10, 1995 DeBernardi Cromor S/S, Nashbar 3sp commuter

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked 216 Times in 133 Posts
Very light traffic where I am - once I get out of town, I might see a car every 10 mins. As for the "problem or solution" issue, if you're not interacting with others, what does it matter whether you leave the house on foot, by bike or in a car? I try to do the right ting re social distancing, but if I go for a 30 mile solo ride and I hardly put my foot down, let alone interact with another living soul, what harm am I doing, apart from the remote possibility of coming off my bike and potentially taxing our medical infrastructure at a time when it doesn't need any extra burden? We can only be responsible for our own actions - if you're doing your best to social distance, then don't worry about what others are doing - your disapproval won't change their actions, and you just make yourself feel bad.
Litespud is offline  
Likes For Litespud:
Old 04-08-20, 07:32 PM
  #13  
AdkMtnMonster
Airplanes, bikes, beer.
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Off the front
Posts: 274

Bikes: Canyon Endurace CF SL 8.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked 321 Times in 126 Posts
My family lives in the Adirondacks of northern NY state. 80% of the houses in our part of the county are non-year 'round residents. Ski homes, vacation homes, many just summer homes... and they're nearly all occupied right now. These properties are owned by people who do not reside in the area, and many of them are from NYC and CT/NJ. This is still a VERY sparsely populated area (with fewer than 11 people/sq mile) and few of these properties are occupied for more than a vacation week here and there, lots of ski weekends in the winter, some summer weeks. Right now, with so many people cramming themselves into these places, groceries at our little grocery store are non-existent. There is still no toilet paper, no cleaning supplies, no meat, very little in the way of fruits/vegetables, and even bread/milk/eggs is frighteningly scarce. Forget finding things like canned veggies or flour/sugar. We have to drive a half hour or more to get to the nearest grocery stores that have any food, and even there it's slim pickin's. This hoarding has got to stop. It's excessive, and in my opinion, is endangering more elderly people as they, too, must drive much further and shop at much larger grocery stores with lots more interpersonal contact. Not a rant, not a complaint, just factual observations from April 8th, 2020.
AdkMtnMonster is offline  
Likes For AdkMtnMonster:
Old 04-08-20, 07:48 PM
  #14  
thumpism 
Bikes are okay, I guess.
 
thumpism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 5,952

Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Trek 510 city build, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1719 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 444 Times in 314 Posts
^ Yeah, it's been noted that those with second/vacation/remote homes have fled to them. I don't blame them but it's too bad they can't be with David Geffen on his $590M yacht.
thumpism is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 07:45 AM
  #15  
Kapusta
Cyclochondriac
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,247
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 550 Times in 347 Posts
They are all looking at you thinking the same thing.

Itís like the saying ďYou are not IN traffic... You ARE the trafficĒ
Kapusta is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 08:20 AM
  #16  
tkamd73 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 758

Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400t, 1977 Trek TX900, 1981 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1991 PDG Paramount OS, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 246 Post(s)
Liked 120 Times in 86 Posts
It’s deserted in my area, great time to drive, bike, or kayak. The only silver lining in this whole covid mess.
Tim
tkamd73 is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 08:33 AM
  #17  
VegasTriker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sin City, Nevada
Posts: 2,303

Bikes: Catrike 700, Greenspeed GTO trike, , Linear LWB recumbent, Haluzak Horizon SWB recumbent, Balance 450 MTB, Cannondale SM800 Beast of the East

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 50 Times in 41 Posts
Heavy traffic? Not the case here. The local newspaper published pictures of Las Vegas Boulevard in the resort corridor and there were just a few cars on it. Normally it would be choked with cars and taxis but not now. I think dogs are loving it. I bet they have not been getting this much time out of their yards ever before. Ditto for people just walking. About the only time I would see this many people walking is when the nearby elementary school was letting out. What is different is the number of cars parked along residential streets. It's been a great time to ride. It is much easier to cross busy streets. Rarely a wait at all. The only downside so far is all of the restrooms in local parks are closed. You can still get water and wash at the outside sinks but can't use them otherwise. On my own street it is almost as though the Pied Piper came through and snatched up all of the young children. Parents must be keeping them inside or in their back yards. That's starting to change though. Yesterday I saw a dad who had set up a course for his three kids to ride their bikes on the now quiet street.
VegasTriker is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 09:22 AM
  #18  
asgelle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 3,921
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 566 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times in 72 Posts
Originally Posted by Ray9 View Post
I know Iím out on my bike. Am I as bad as they are?
You're not as bad as they are. You're worse. In a car, the exhaled droplets and aerosols are virtually entirely confined within the passenger compartment. On your bike, you're spewing possibly virus laden material into the atmosphere for others to inhale.
asgelle is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 09:47 AM
  #19  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 7,329

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3799 Post(s)
Liked 2,558 Times in 1,471 Posts
Originally Posted by Ray9 View Post
I naively expected deserted roads during this shelter-in-place advisory but it’s just the opposite. There is heavy traffic everywhere. I am certain that the extra traffic is not seeking food or necessities. There are just people who consider furloughs a vacation and they drive like it. I’m wondering what part of “stay home” they don’t understand. I know I’m out on my bike. Am I as bad as they are? My wife and I (retired) have not been out of our house in a car for three weeks-she goes for walks-I ride. Are we part of the problem?

I'm also in New England and I'm solo riding as is specifically permitted under the rules in place in the two states I ride in (I live a few miles from the border). Cars and bikes scattered on the road is not a problem outside, groups of people congregating are. If you're riding close to someone else than you're a problem. If you're keeping your distance from everyone, than you're not. I'm not sure anything can be done safely outside in a crowded urban environment, but I don't live in one and I'm avoiding riding to or through them right now.

The big issue with driving is more about where you're going to get out of the car than it is with the actual driving.

Long story short--are you riding somewhere where you are in close proximity with other people? If not, you're not a part of any problem. If so, maybe take a break or change your route.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 10:01 AM
  #20  
friday1970
Senior Member
 
friday1970's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Brighton, Michigan
Posts: 476

Bikes: Optima Baron LR, '14 Nishiki Maricopa,'87 Trek 330 Elance, '89 Miyata 1400, '85 Peugeot PGN10, '04 Fuji Ace, '06 Giant Rincon, '95 Giant Allegre, '83 Trek 620, '86 Schwinn High Sierra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked 61 Times in 41 Posts
Originally Posted by VegasTriker View Post
Heavy traffic? .
For Michigan, not so much on the roads. But the MUP's? Man, stocked full of walkers, dogs, and casual cyclists. It's a constant stream of "On your left' when I ride now. Makes me wonder what people did before the whole scare started.
For auto traffic, it does seem that the stay-at-home orders seem to apply mostly on weekdays. I can ride the roads after work mon-fri and hardly get passed by a car. Same roads on Sat-Sun, far more cars pass me.
friday1970 is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 10:27 AM
  #21  
HerrKaLeun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,733

Bikes: Giant Toughroad SLR1 and Motobecane Sturgis NX

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 135 Times in 113 Posts
Originally Posted by AdkMtnMonster View Post
My family lives in the Adirondacks of northern NY state. 80% of the houses in our part of the county are non-year 'round residents. Ski homes, vacation homes, many just summer homes... and they're nearly all occupied right now. These properties are owned by people who do not reside in the area, and many of them are from NYC and CT/NJ. This is still a VERY sparsely populated area (with fewer than 11 people/sq mile) and few of these properties are occupied for more than a vacation week here and there, lots of ski weekends in the winter, some summer weeks. Right now, with so many people cramming themselves into these places, groceries at our little grocery store are non-existent. There is still no toilet paper, no cleaning supplies, no meat, very little in the way of fruits/vegetables, and even bread/milk/eggs is frighteningly scarce. Forget finding things like canned veggies or flour/sugar. We have to drive a half hour or more to get to the nearest grocery stores that have any food, and even there it's slim pickin's. This hoarding has got to stop. It's excessive, and in my opinion, is endangering more elderly people as they, too, must drive much further and shop at much larger grocery stores with lots more interpersonal contact. Not a rant, not a complaint, just factual observations from April 8th, 2020.
It is actually a problem that hospitals in such areas are even less prepared for the above average population numbers. So an outbreak of COVID will be even worse in such seasonal areas. In addition, those seasonals don't isolate themselves for 3 weeks after coming from the big city.
HerrKaLeun is offline  
Likes For HerrKaLeun:
Old 04-09-20, 10:57 AM
  #22  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 22,690

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, an orange one and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 111 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3339 Post(s)
Liked 793 Times in 502 Posts
Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
You're not as bad as they are. You're worse. In a car, the exhaled droplets and aerosols are virtually entirely confined within the passenger compartment.
Until you get out of the car. Then those trapped and condensed droplets are concentrated on your person. The drops are also trapped in a container that allows them to to survive for a period of time.

On your bike, you're spewing possibly virus laden material into the atmosphere for others to inhale.
In to a turbulent atmosphere that is bathed in ultraviolet light. The concentration goes down significantly because the human is punching a human sized hole through the atmosphere and leaving a turbulent wake. Any droplets get mixed with air, dry out and get irradiated. Their survival time is significantly decreased in addition to a decreased concentration. In a car, the virus could last for hours while their survival in open air is on the order of minutes.

There is also the level of risk to consider. Spain has said that they donít want cyclists out because of the possibility of accidents. I havenít heard the same argument made for motorists, however. While occasionally a bicycle accident can result in severe injury, the rate of severe injury goes up significantly with speed and weight of the vehicle. Car accidents regularly take up far more resources in medical situations then bicycle accidents do. About 40,000 people are injured in bicycle accidents per year, most of them not life threatening. 3 million people are injured in automobile accidents per year, many with injuries that require lengthy hospital stays.

Finally, if you are showing symptoms, stay home.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.

Last edited by cyccommute; 04-09-20 at 12:05 PM.
cyccommute is offline  
Likes For cyccommute:
Old 04-09-20, 11:51 AM
  #23  
krecik
Senior Member
 
krecik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Tredegar, Wales
Posts: 358

Bikes: coastie

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 54 Posts
Roads are for vehicles. I don't see the problem...
krecik is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 11:56 AM
  #24  
HerrKaLeun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,733

Bikes: Giant Toughroad SLR1 and Motobecane Sturgis NX

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 135 Times in 113 Posts
Originally Posted by krecik View Post
Roads are for vehicles. I don't see the problem...
yeah, a long time ago there was an article in the Onion saying that 99% of car drivers are in favor of public transportatation....for all the OTHER drivers to be used.
HerrKaLeun is offline  
Old 04-09-20, 11:56 AM
  #25  
HerrKaLeun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,733

Bikes: Giant Toughroad SLR1 and Motobecane Sturgis NX

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 135 Times in 113 Posts
Originally Posted by krecik View Post
Roads are for vehicles. I don't see the problem...
yeah, a long time ago there was an article in the Onion saying that 99% of car drivers are in favor of public transportatation....for all the OTHER drivers to be used.
HerrKaLeun is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.