PotatoSlayer

I haven't formed much of an opinion yet, but I'm curious as to what those of us in the car-free or car-lite lifestyle feel about GM and Chrysler going bankrupt? i'm open to all opinions.

Ekdog

It's too bad they never made a serious effort to compete with the Asians and Europeans in making smaller, cleaner and more fuel efficient cars, opting instead to keep pushing size and power while spending millions to lobby against tougher fuel and emissions standards. I've only set foot in the United States a few times in the last couple of decades, but I'm always surprised to see those super macho ads on TV pushing gas-guzzling Hummers, pick-up trucks and SUV's. What a shame!

ryanz4

Doesn't effect me one way or the other. Don't drive, however even if I did I would never touch a North American made car.
Since the government of Canada now owns a part of GM, I'd just like to know how much I can sell my portion for. Even if it's $0.01 I'll take it.

ericy

I know - this was all so predictable. In some number of months, a much smaller GM will most likely emerge. But if they retain their corporate culture of wanting to build muscle cars, I fear this will happen yet again at some point in the future.

Nightshade

Most people seem to hold onto the idea that buiness & gov't leaders actually know what the are
doing and can wave a magic wand to make it happen. 'Taint so.

At best they throw out the best guess and let the people doing the job make it work..or not.

crocodilefundy

so what happens to the billions we lent them? we better be the first ones paid back.

Machka 

Companies come ... companies go.

pedex

they will emerge from bankruptcy and fail anyway, Ford too

BarracksSi

+1. The silly thing is that GM's other brands -- Opel, Vauxhall, and if you count them as a cousin, Subaru and a Korean manufacturer whose name escapes me, and GM's Holden brand in Oz -- have made smaller, better-packaged and more efficient cars that GM didn't think to bring to the US.

Ford would be in the same position if they didn't have such huge cash reserves already. Thankfully for them, they have a bit of time to bring their own well-received European models to the States.

Many people forget that GM is so much bigger than Chevy, Pontiac, and Cadillac. The parts contractors from whom they buy their parts also make stuff for other carmakers (I've read of one who makes interior trim pieces not only for GM but also for Ford, Toyota, and Honda). When an operation this size goes down, a lot of people are going to feel it.

BarracksSi

Oh, and let me say a bit about the point I've highlighted:

While GM was lobbying against emissions standards in the 1970's, Honda was spending its cash in R&D to come up with a way to meet the same emissions standards. Honda's result was the CVCC engine, which made the Civic the first car to meet those standards without requiring a catalytic convertor.

Look at who's doing better now.

/Honda fanboy mode off

Commuter76

I'm glad we quit bailing them out and are letting them go into bankruptcy.

I heard this quote on the radio not too long ago - "Capitalism without bankruptcy is like religion without hell."

I wish I could remember who said that.

ndbiker

I'm not sure "want" was ever the operative word. They made what they could sell at a profit. Given their cost disadvantage, they could never make an inexpensive, fuel efficient car and we weren't in any hurry to buy them from them. They were doing OK in the midsize market but Toyota and Honda were building much better sedans at similar prices and the US car companies were losing market share every year.What they made that we wanted were trucks, suv's, Cadillacs and sports cars. They were priced such that they could sell them at a profit and with relatively little competition. When gas went to $4/gallon they had comparatively few small fuel efficient cars and made almost no money off the ones that they did have. By the time gas prices had retreated, the mortgage/credit crisis hit and people stopped almost all big ticket purchases which put the nail in the coffin of Chrysler and GM. It will be interesting to see if a government guided car company can become competitive or will we as taxpayers be owners of a "Skoda" type of car company building vehicles that the government designs but nobody wants to own?

JT52

I believe that was Daewoo...

maddyfish

I hate to see the taxpayer saddled with these companies.

wahoonc

Honda has always been a step ahead of the pack. They also have the knack to take a 1.2 litre engine and match it to a tranny that makes it feel and perform like a car with twice as much power. I have had a Honda or two starting with a 1978 Civic 1200 and the current Fit and slightly used CRV we just purchased.

Honda also had a hands off driving system about 20 years ago that didn't require any special wires buried in the pavement, it used a close proximity radar, video cameras that keyed off the paint stripes and a micro processor. I saw a demo at the Sears Point Raceway, and it was impressive to see a string of cars lapping along at highway speeds with the drivers' hands off the steering wheel.

Aaron

zeppinger

**** em.

Foofy

On one hand I hate to think of all the lost jobs; people being left in the dust. But on the other hand I hate the vast majority of GM and Chrysler products. Not gonna make me a product I like, then I don't care if your company goes under. Honda will get my money instead.

Dahon.Steve

The ones who are really going to suffer the most are the 20,000 jobs GM is going to cut as a result of the bankruptcy. Where are the unions? You haven't heard a word from them this whole time at all and they really need to stand up to the fact that GM is going to close 20 manufacturing plants and outsouce thousands of jobs!

With this bankruptcy, GM will cut up all those pensions from people who worked their entire lives. Their health insurance is history and they will be forced to apply for medicare! Incredible. I can't believe we are paying billions to deindustrial our nation and outsource thousands of jobs! Heck, John Mccain could have done this job. I'm very dissapointed in Obama.

I hope those losing their jobs find their way to this forum. The only solution for them now is to become car free.

maddyfish

I do too. But, back in the 1920s lots of people, horse shoers, wagon makers, horse pooper scoopers, lost their jobs when car started to become more prevelant. What good would it have done back then to subsidize and bailout the horse buggy industry? Because horse buggies had their day, and that day had passed, they would have been on the public dole forever.

Chrysler has had it's day. They are as irrelevant as horse waste removers in a 1930s city. GM may have some usefulness left, but their usefulness is in building trucks, vans and other utility vehicles. The direction Obama has them goin, building sub compacts, will only put them further in the grave.

daven1986

I feel that car companies are under share holder pressure to keep growing and bringing out new cars. How much more useful would car manufacturers be to us, if instead of bringing out one or more new cars every year, they brought out a new car every 3-5 years which was radically different and actually made a difference in terms of emissions / comfort / safety etc.

They waste so much money on R&D for 1 mpg, or 1 mph higher top speed. We, as a population, don't require a new car every year let alone 2.

The pressure has been on them and other companies to keep growing, which is completely unsustainable. I'm glad we are going to lose car companies, not because of the people who will lose their jobs - that is sad, but unavoidable - but because maybe it will cause people to rethink how they develop cars.

Of course I know it won't, and we will be back in this situation in another 20 years time, but hey! As brought up in my replies to other threads, I also think that the need to keep expanding is caused by our out of control population growth around the world. As smart / intelligent as we humans claim to be, we act pretty stupidly.

poopisnotfood

Unions are the reason they are in this mess to begin with. Unions and their members got greedy, making $30 an hour and striking because it wasn't enough. Get real. I don't feel sorry for the Unions at all, with the government in control the Unions will still get their money, make no mistake about it they have entirely too much lobbying clout. I feel sorry for the smaller companies that are going to have to lay off people because of this. Those people don't have Unions to pay their bills. Last I heard if you were laid of from GM, GM had to pay your salary for over 2 YEARS because of the unions. Those people can find a new job within 2 years.

Commuter76

Sorry, but I just can't agree with this sentiment.

GM was going to go bankrupt no matter what. The unions bargained for contracts, and GM accepted them. However, GM management screwed the company up and those same union workers are going to be hung out to dry. It sucks for them, and I wish it weren't happening. However, the union can't force GM to stay unprofitable. There comes a point where the money runs out, and that time has come.

Obama tried to prevent it from happening, but he had no idea the depth of incompetence in the US auto industry's management. No government official could have solved this problem, I don't care how glorified they are.

You are right about those employees needing to shift their paradigm. So, hey! We don't totally disagree!

gwd

Here's an idea. He doesn't seem like much of a car free advocate but
his idea for GM would benefit car free people.

https://www.michaelmoore.com/words/me...dex.php?id=248

poopisnotfood

I don't like the guy, but those are some valid points he makes. I for one would love to see bullet trains. We used the mass transit system in Italy (I know it pales in comparison to other parts of Europe, but it is the extent of my experience with trains ok!!!) it was nice and seemed to be efficient. I think traveling the US by train would be great.

sauerwald

In my opinion it is representative of the total failure of the concept of personal motor vehicle travel. We as a society have massively subsidized the personal motor vehicle as a mode of transport, spending hundreds of billions of dollars on an interstate highway system and a network of roads. We have redesigned our cities in order to better support the motor vehicle, we have eliminated most other transit options such as urban street cars and a viable inter-city rail network, and still we cannot manage to keep our motor vehicle manufacturers from failing. When the patient has been on life support for the past 40 years, and now stops breathing, asking what we can do to save him is the wrong question.
The experiment has failed, let's move on.