Nominate the most beautiful vintage groupset
06-04-19, 04:07 PM
#26
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FWIW my favorite group is Shimano Metrea... not C&V and apparently a market dud in Yurp that never even made it to retail in the States
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06-04-19, 05:15 PM
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06-04-19, 05:17 PM
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Too many beautiful and worthy components wind up being left out of the running here because they were never part of a complete group. Stronglight cranks, the Huret Jubilee RD, New Gran Compe centerpull brakes. This almost guarantees a win for Shimano, SunTour, or Campagnolo.
Plus, you know the Campy fans are going to start their little Cosa-Record Nostra the moment they get wind of this thread.
So I vote Mavic SSC just to bring some balance to the Force here.
-Kurt
Plus, you know the Campy fans are going to start their little Cosa-Record Nostra the moment they get wind of this thread.
So I vote Mavic SSC just to bring some balance to the Force here.
-Kurt
06-04-19, 05:23 PM
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Too many beautiful and worthy components wind up being left out of the running here because they were never part of a complete group. Stronglight cranks, the Huret Jubilee RD, New Gran Compe centerpull brakes. This almost guarantees a win for Shimano, SunTour, or Campagnolo.
Plus, you know the Campy fans are going to start their little Cosa-Record Nostra the moment they get wind of this thread.
So I vote Mavic SSC just to bring some balance to the Force here.
-Kurt
Plus, you know the Campy fans are going to start their little Cosa-Record Nostra the moment they get wind of this thread.
So I vote Mavic SSC just to bring some balance to the Force here.
-Kurt
06-04-19, 05:29 PM
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06-04-19, 05:40 PM
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06-04-19, 05:44 PM
#33
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Really there was not much of a choice: would you like Campagnolo NR or SR? And nobody said groupset. You said "gruppo", because that's what it was... 
Yes there was Dura Ace - a knockoff, and Superbe - another knockoff (albeit a good one), and even Galli had one. But, the groupset is really a modern way of thinking. Most bikes had mix and match parts. Campagnolo was the exception.
Yes there was Dura Ace - a knockoff, and Superbe - another knockoff (albeit a good one), and even Galli had one. But, the groupset is really a modern way of thinking. Most bikes had mix and match parts. Campagnolo was the exception.
06-04-19, 05:52 PM
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I'm right in there with ya! I have never bought an Asian bike, since my first bike of my own around 1963. Closest I came was to buy Mrs. Road Fan a 2003 Breezer Liberty, which was MUSA back then. Well, not sure about the Cannondale Road Warrior 800 I bought her around 2006 ...
But I get pissed about folks taking the opportunity to throw gratuitous items at users of Campagnolo.
What do I like? First, it's all road gear, not MTB except by accident. Stronglight, Huret DuoPar, Rene Herse, Campagnolo aluminum gearing, Avocet cranks, TA Cyclotourist, Mafac brakes, Thomson seatposts, ... I wanted to like Shimano 600 6207 when I bought my 1984 Trek 610 new, but the shifting started out like crap and never got better until i started trying some final markdown Campagnolo NR from an early Performance store, around 1987. Well, the 600/6207 double crank is pretty nice-looking and works well, but ... still not up to the first Campy Chorus, which has much lower Q.
Sorry about neglecting SunTour, I was barely in the bike market when they were in their heyday.
(Signed) Road Fan, Consiglieri and Soldieri, Secret Order of Cosa C-record Nostra
But I get pissed about folks taking the opportunity to throw gratuitous items at users of Campagnolo.
What do I like? First, it's all road gear, not MTB except by accident. Stronglight, Huret DuoPar, Rene Herse, Campagnolo aluminum gearing, Avocet cranks, TA Cyclotourist, Mafac brakes, Thomson seatposts, ... I wanted to like Shimano 600 6207 when I bought my 1984 Trek 610 new, but the shifting started out like crap and never got better until i started trying some final markdown Campagnolo NR from an early Performance store, around 1987. Well, the 600/6207 double crank is pretty nice-looking and works well, but ... still not up to the first Campy Chorus, which has much lower Q.
Sorry about neglecting SunTour, I was barely in the bike market when they were in their heyday.
(Signed) Road Fan, Consiglieri and Soldieri, Secret Order of Cosa C-record Nostra
06-04-19, 05:53 PM
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06-04-19, 06:24 PM
#37
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Despite what I said in my earlier post, I'd like to nominate the following:
Zeus 2000
Mavic erector set
Campagnolo (first generation) Super Record, reduced.
Zeus 2000
Mavic erector set
Campagnolo (first generation) Super Record, reduced.
06-04-19, 06:34 PM
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Well, this is like throwing a grenade into the room, shutting the door and running. 
The title says "most beautiful."
Not most reliable, not most usable across a wide range, not best for this or for that.
"Groupset" really limits the field.
Having said that, and I am no fanboy of any particular brand - I like them all, 1966-1987 Campy Record wins for me (eye of the beholder, right?) and it's not really close.
Incredible finish, the RD is just plain gorgeous (pivots make a damn heart shape!).
Second place would be Suntour Superbe Pro.
And...no offense to anyone, but those Campy Delta brakes are hideous.
The title says "most beautiful."
Not most reliable, not most usable across a wide range, not best for this or for that.
"Groupset" really limits the field.
Having said that, and I am no fanboy of any particular brand - I like them all, 1966-1987 Campy Record wins for me (eye of the beholder, right?) and it's not really close.
Incredible finish, the RD is just plain gorgeous (pivots make a damn heart shape!).
Second place would be Suntour Superbe Pro.
And...no offense to anyone, but those Campy Delta brakes are hideous.
06-04-19, 06:35 PM
#39
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The OP even gave Super Record a podium 1-2-3 finish by praising three different variations.
Don't get me wrong, this is coming from someone who's build history has been "throw Campagnolo at it" - with a few exceptions. But as much as I like NR, SR, and C-Record, I can appreciate looking past them for other beautiful bits.
I'm glad to see Superbe Pro getting a voice here - it deserves to be mentioned - but we're still stuck in groupset groupthink. If we put groupsets to the side, there are many beautiful components to appreciate (and note that I said appreciate, not judge):
They adds a whole new layer of interest.
-Kurt
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Last edited by cudak888; 06-05-19 at 05:22 AM.
06-04-19, 07:59 PM
#40
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I was hoping someone wouldn't mention the Spidel group, as I struggle to accept outright badge-engineering as a group.
Does that mean that Schwinn Varsities have Schwinn Approved groups? Because if that counts, I'm nominating it right now just to piss everyone off
I love it too...and it's been done to death. It's time for the decade to crown an overlooked successor of the classic era.
-Kurt
Does that mean that Schwinn Varsities have Schwinn Approved groups? Because if that counts, I'm nominating it right now just to piss everyone off
I love it too...and it's been done to death. It's time for the decade to crown an overlooked successor of the classic era.
-Kurt
06-04-19, 08:17 PM
#41
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IMHO, the 6207 cranks were busy trying to be Dura-Ace, while the RD had lesser ambitions.
If sheer style is what we're aiming for though, the 6300-series 600AX group is probably the best Shimano group to take to a looks contest against C-Record. They're both built for beauty, with crazy brakes and a straight-parallelogram RD.
-Kurt
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06-04-19, 08:42 PM
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If this is going to be a C&V thread, we should be nominating individual parts rather than groups. The beauty of parts--before Shimano screwed everything up--was that you could mix and match the best parts. I know this thread is about the most "beautiful" parts but for me the most beautiful are the ones that work the best.
So best and most beautiful headset, stronglight A9.
Best derailleurs, suntour.
Best brakes, take your pick, Mafac racers (cheap but great) or campy sidepulls.
Best crank is tough but I'd vote stronglight cranks. The rings were very good on the rockwell hardness test. The cranks were light. And they chainring sizes (or bcd), unlike campy, came in useful sizes. Even the racing crank, the stronglight 93, could go down to 37 teeth. Then stronglight screwed up by copying the campy bcd.
Best hubs, I love campy but the later suntour cartridge bearing ones were great as well.
Best pedals, campys are great but so are the later suntour cartridge bearing pedals (I think they were made by MKS).
If I have to vote for a group worth owning as a group, I like the suntour xc pro stuff/superbe stuff. That was suntour's swan song before it went broke and that stuff is excellent. I have a full xc pro group salted away for a 650b build I plan on doing.
Oh, and shimano gets zero votes which is exactly what it deserves. Don't get me wrong, I love shimano click shifting and the shimano 600/dura ace stuff is pretty hot but shimano made a lot of crappy stuff before it finally figured out how to kill off the competition.
There is not a lot of campy stuff on my post but then campy stuff was beautiful, pricey, and overrated. Was there a crappier uber expensive rear derailleur ever made then the first or second gen campy rally? Or a crappier less well thought out triple then the campy triple? Plus campy headsets are overrated. They were a lot easier to "index" than a well made headset like the stronglight A9. The older stronglight headsets are great too.
So best and most beautiful headset, stronglight A9.
Best derailleurs, suntour.
Best brakes, take your pick, Mafac racers (cheap but great) or campy sidepulls.
Best crank is tough but I'd vote stronglight cranks. The rings were very good on the rockwell hardness test. The cranks were light. And they chainring sizes (or bcd), unlike campy, came in useful sizes. Even the racing crank, the stronglight 93, could go down to 37 teeth. Then stronglight screwed up by copying the campy bcd.
Best hubs, I love campy but the later suntour cartridge bearing ones were great as well.
Best pedals, campys are great but so are the later suntour cartridge bearing pedals (I think they were made by MKS).
If I have to vote for a group worth owning as a group, I like the suntour xc pro stuff/superbe stuff. That was suntour's swan song before it went broke and that stuff is excellent. I have a full xc pro group salted away for a 650b build I plan on doing.
Oh, and shimano gets zero votes which is exactly what it deserves. Don't get me wrong, I love shimano click shifting and the shimano 600/dura ace stuff is pretty hot but shimano made a lot of crappy stuff before it finally figured out how to kill off the competition.
There is not a lot of campy stuff on my post but then campy stuff was beautiful, pricey, and overrated. Was there a crappier uber expensive rear derailleur ever made then the first or second gen campy rally? Or a crappier less well thought out triple then the campy triple? Plus campy headsets are overrated. They were a lot easier to "index" than a well made headset like the stronglight A9. The older stronglight headsets are great too.
06-04-19, 09:03 PM
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The third and final generation Suntour Superbe Pro, particularly the brakes with their hidden spring calipers.
06-05-19, 04:29 AM
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Dx
- Apparently after Shimano tried to compete aganist the Campy Delta grouppo the two companies got together and reached an understanding that if they continued with this over engineered, aero inspired, one-upmanship showcase groupsets (that were performance wise very average indeed ) both companies would end up bankrupting themselves.
Like the Campy 1983 grouppo the Shimano DX were designed for aerodynamic efficency. The DX was all wires and no cable outer.
The pedals with the oversize axle take some getting used to
Like the competing Campo Delta they are aero but not very good at stopping you. But who brakes on a TT bike. The
The rear brake does virtually nothing - just like its Italian rival
Last edited by Johno59; 06-05-19 at 07:08 AM.
06-05-19, 05:24 AM
#48
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If this is going to be a C&V thread, we should be nominating individual parts rather than groups. The beauty of parts--before Shimano screwed everything up--was that you could mix and match the best parts. I know this thread is about the most "beautiful" parts but for me the most beautiful are the ones that work the best.
So best and most beautiful headset, stronglight A9.
Best derailleurs, suntour.
Best brakes, take your pick, Mafac racers (cheap but great) or campy sidepulls.
Best crank is tough but I'd vote stronglight cranks. The rings were very good on the rockwell hardness test. The cranks were light. And they chainring sizes (or bcd), unlike campy, came in useful sizes. Even the racing crank, the stronglight 93, could go down to 37 teeth. Then stronglight screwed up by copying the campy bcd.
Best hubs, I love campy but the later suntour cartridge bearing ones were great as well.
Best pedals, campys are great but so are the later suntour cartridge bearing pedals (I think they were made by MKS).
If I have to vote for a group worth owning as a group, I like the suntour xc pro stuff/superbe stuff. That was suntour's swan song before it went broke and that stuff is excellent. I have a full xc pro group salted away for a 650b build I plan on doing.
Oh, and shimano gets zero votes which is exactly what it deserves. Don't get me wrong, I love shimano click shifting and the shimano 600/dura ace stuff is pretty hot but shimano made a lot of crappy stuff before it finally figured out how to kill off the competition.
There is not a lot of campy stuff on my post but then campy stuff was beautiful, pricey, and overrated. Was there a crappier uber expensive rear derailleur ever made then the first or second gen campy rally? Or a crappier less well thought out triple then the campy triple? Plus campy headsets are overrated. They were a lot easier to "index" than a well made headset like the stronglight A9. The older stronglight headsets are great too.
So best and most beautiful headset, stronglight A9.
Best derailleurs, suntour.
Best brakes, take your pick, Mafac racers (cheap but great) or campy sidepulls.
Best crank is tough but I'd vote stronglight cranks. The rings were very good on the rockwell hardness test. The cranks were light. And they chainring sizes (or bcd), unlike campy, came in useful sizes. Even the racing crank, the stronglight 93, could go down to 37 teeth. Then stronglight screwed up by copying the campy bcd.
Best hubs, I love campy but the later suntour cartridge bearing ones were great as well.
Best pedals, campys are great but so are the later suntour cartridge bearing pedals (I think they were made by MKS).
If I have to vote for a group worth owning as a group, I like the suntour xc pro stuff/superbe stuff. That was suntour's swan song before it went broke and that stuff is excellent. I have a full xc pro group salted away for a 650b build I plan on doing.
Oh, and shimano gets zero votes which is exactly what it deserves. Don't get me wrong, I love shimano click shifting and the shimano 600/dura ace stuff is pretty hot but shimano made a lot of crappy stuff before it finally figured out how to kill off the competition.
There is not a lot of campy stuff on my post but then campy stuff was beautiful, pricey, and overrated. Was there a crappier uber expensive rear derailleur ever made then the first or second gen campy rally? Or a crappier less well thought out triple then the campy triple? Plus campy headsets are overrated. They were a lot easier to "index" than a well made headset like the stronglight A9. The older stronglight headsets are great too.
One point of contention though: The first and third gen Rally RDs were not that bad. It was the "OK, we realized we infringed on a patent so we put the Rally cage on the NR" second-gen that isn't so great. The third gen also knocks the finish out of the park, by solving the rough upper knuckle finish of the original.
-Kurt
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06-05-19, 07:20 AM
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