jkimballcook

I have a late 80s dave scott ironman that I had powdercoated and then rebuilt with the original 105 group earlier this summer. In the process of putting it all together, I realized that the RD has a bit of play. At first I thought the hanger might be bent, but it's actually the RD shifting back and forth slightly in the hanger, even though the bolt is tight. So I figured that an RD replacement should be in the works sometime soon. I thought about upgrading to a modern RD, but realized that I would need a new cassette, which would mean a new rear hub, and at that point, with the condition of the original rims, might as well get a whole new wheelset.

But a friend of mine has recently offered me a new modern wheelset for free (sans cassette), so I'm thinking it might be a good time to pick up a 9 or 10 speed cassette and a modern RD. Might be nice to get a wider range, since I do like to ride in some hilly areas, so I'm toying with the idea of going with a long cage derailer.

I'm pretty sure that my frame is spaced at 128 (I've been told that many late 80s frames were really 128, even though they were said to be 126, and the old 126 rear wheel is a bit loose in my frame until you crank down the QR, which seems to bear that out), so I don't think I'll need to cold set. If I do, I've read how to do it and I'm pretty comfortable with that, so that's not really an issue.

But I'm not sure about shifters. I'm not interested in brifters or barcons for this bike, so I'm sticking with dt shifters. But the original 105 6 speed shifters are, of course, not going to be compatible with a modern cassette. Of course, the cheapest option would be to just flip them over to friction mode and learn how to friction shift. And the more expensive option would be to get the 10 speed durace dt shifters or like $70.

I've also heard good things about the riv silver ratchet shifters, for like $50, but I don't know very much about them. Supposedly they are way better than regular friction shifters, and people who use them say that they're as good or better than indexing. Has anyone used them with a 9 or 10 speed system? Is it worth considering for this bike?

oldskoolwrench

9 and 10 speed drive trains don't function so well with friction shifting because the cog spacing is so narrow. Dura Ace shifters only work with other Dura Ace components, so you'll have potential compatibility issues.

If I may... if you're set on down tube shifters but want indexing capability then I would convert to an 8 speed drive train. You'll just need a spacer for the 8 speed cassette to fit on the 9 speed hub, and you'll have
a much wider range of component choices to work with, and Down Tube shifters are much easier to find for an 8 speed set up.

canopus 

I run the Shimano 7700 DT shifters on my Campy drive train with the Jtek Shiftmate, it works great.
I have also converted some Campy 10s bar ends to DT shifters. It works ok.
I had a hard time finding a friction shifter that would pull enough cable to go friction on the 10s setup.
I would have the same concern with the RIV shifters but now I am intrigued....

rccardr 

DA 9 or 10 speed DT shifters will work with any Shimano RD and FD with the exception of 8 speed DA 7403/7410, no compatibility issues at all. I prefer the later 105/Ultegra/DA RD's with them because I think the narrow 9/10 speed cages designed for use with the narrow 9/10 speed chains gives a marginally crisper shift.

On the other hand, have also used older DT shifters in friction mode and mid 80's Shimano FD/RD with a 10 speed cassette and chain and the shifting is silky smooth. Yes, the cogs are close but you just move the shifter less than with a 6/7 speed system.

If you find 8 speed shifters at a low price, let me know. Last pair I bought new (Shimano R400L's) was only about $20 cheaper than 7700/7900 DA, and haven't seen any used ones lately. I'd like a set of 6400 series ones to complete a group.

At the endof the day, the DA 9/10 speed ones are lovely, shiny, durable and have a great shifting feel. Not cheap, but new ones are less than half the price of used brifters.

zandoval 

Learning how to friction shift is well worth the time - Even if you do not stick with it - We all should be in the gear that we need long before we need it...

Sorry for posting so late...

jon c. 

There really isn't much to learn to friction shifting. Of course, I grew up doing it so it seems "normal". But I wouldn't think it would take more than a ride or two to get wholly comfortable with it.

Arrowana

First, why would a new derailleur not work with the old cassette? And second, if you do switch cassettes, you could reuse the old hub if you swap out the freewheel body. So you really don't need to replace much if you don't want to. Of course, going to 9 or 10 speeds is pretty nice. When I had an Ironman, I switched to a 9sp cassette, keeping the original RD and shifters in friction mode, and it worked great.

FunkyStickman

I have some SunRace DT shifters, they're very inexpensive, the indexing seems okay. Going to put some 9sp ones on my bike soon (have 7sp ones on it now).

https://www.ebikestop.com/sunrace_slr...set-LD1248.php

John E

7- and 8-speed friction shifting are about equivalent in difficulty, i.e., very easy. 9-speed is not that much more finicky.

ThermionicScott 

I started out with indexed downtube shifters and have come to prefer friction mode -- should things get out of alignment while riding, the power to correct it is always in your hands.

Of course, the onus is then on you to be a little more thoughtful when shifting from one gear to another...

RobbieTunes

I second most of Alan's comments, except for the spacer thing; not sure that's needed; not in my experience.

Now, if you get modern wheels and go 8-sp, the selection of DT shifters is not bad, not expensive, and you'll just need the cassette and chain.

If you go 9-sp, I recommend the Sunrace 9-sp DT shifters, which I've used on an Ironman with good results. They're solid, cheap, and "throw" well. This would be my first choice, with a cassette and 9-sp chain. All I changed was the wheelset and RD, added the Sunrace shifters and an SRAM cassette and chain. I kept everything else OEM.

If you go 10-sp, the DA 10-sp DT shifters are dreamy. I ran an Ironman with those shifters with a 105 10-sp RD, and used 105 single pivot calipers and the older 105 FD. It was light, precise, and not expensive.....and necessary because a "great deal" on modern wheels resulted in a set of 10-sp only wheels. From 2004-2008, there were wheels made that had 2mm deep splines and were made for Shimano's 10-sp cassettes only. You can get great deals on these, but know you're going 10-sp or nothing.

A donor bike may be the best bet, but you'll enjoy doing it, can come here for any advice you need, and welcome to the Ironman cult....

byhsu

Are the Sunrace 9 speed DT shifters Indexed or just friction?

I am building a Centurion with modern components and i got Dura Ace 10 speed shifters, you can still find them on fleabay, but they are a bit pricey. DR and FR are 105 5700 series, will let you know how that works as soon as I am able to put everything together.

ThermionicScott 

Per FunkyStickman's link, the rear is index-only.

RobbieTunes

That's correct in my experience. The L is friction, the R is 9-sp indexed only. I think I paid $26 delivered. Both the shifters and the collars are larger than Shimano's.

oldskoolwrench

RobbieTunes is correct; if you have a current 9 speed hub then an 8 speed cassette will fit, without using a spacer. My bad.