Descending question
#1
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Thread Starter
Descending question
I have a tough time staying with larger guys on descents. I weigh about 135lbs and the guys that are 160-170 give me fits on the descents. I'm talking about charity type events or very spirited group rides where we try to drop folks. Obviously these guys are a bit stronger than I am as they stay with me on the climb up. It just sucks to be in the lead group only to get dropped by 4 or 5 guys on the descent near the end of the event.
Where I loose the draft is coming out of a turn where you have to brake a little. I can brake later than these guys b/c I'm lighter, and I can carry the same speed through the turn. Problem is when they hit a few very powerful strokes right after the turn & get in a "super tuck" position - eventually I'm gone. My max gear is a 52-11 but I'm not out of gearing if I wanted to turn a very high cadence to catch them. It's just that I have to do all out sprints to catch them after each turn/switchback. Then after 3 or 4 of such turns, I'm toast.
Any suggestions? All I keep saying to myself is that I have to increase my short term power to be able to close those gaps coming out of the turn.
Where I loose the draft is coming out of a turn where you have to brake a little. I can brake later than these guys b/c I'm lighter, and I can carry the same speed through the turn. Problem is when they hit a few very powerful strokes right after the turn & get in a "super tuck" position - eventually I'm gone. My max gear is a 52-11 but I'm not out of gearing if I wanted to turn a very high cadence to catch them. It's just that I have to do all out sprints to catch them after each turn/switchback. Then after 3 or 4 of such turns, I'm toast.
Any suggestions? All I keep saying to myself is that I have to increase my short term power to be able to close those gaps coming out of the turn.
Last edited by RShantz; 07-02-18 at 06:48 PM.
#3
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You're not fat enough for this sport.
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Learn to late apex and start pedaling sooner out of the corner. Instead of gradually turning into a corner, go straight a little longer, brake harder, then a hard initial turn in. From this point on, you should be straightening up before you get to the apex and accelerating out of the corner.
If you find yourself braking or turning harder in the second half of a corner, you didn't get the line right.
Also when you are following someone, don't start turning when they turn. A lot of people do this. You end up early apexing the corner. You need to turn at the same point in the road that they turn in or later.
If you find yourself braking or turning harder in the second half of a corner, you didn't get the line right.
Also when you are following someone, don't start turning when they turn. A lot of people do this. You end up early apexing the corner. You need to turn at the same point in the road that they turn in or later.
#6
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I have a tough time staying with larger guys on descents. I weight about 135lbs and the guys that are 160-170 give me fits on the descents. I'm talking about charity type events or very spirited group rides where we try to drop folks. Obviously these guys are a bit stronger than I am as they stay with me on the climb up. It just sucks to be in the lead group only to get dropped by 4 or 5 guys on the descent near the end of the event.
Where I loose the draft is coming out of a turn where you have to brake a little. I can brake later than these guys b/c I'm lighter, and I can carry the same speed through the turn. Problem is when they hit a few very powerful strokes right after the turn & get in a "super tuck" position - eventually I'm gone. My max gear is a 52-11 but I'm not out of gearing if I wanted to turn a very high cadence to catch them. It's just that I have to do all out sprints to catch them after each turn/switchback. Then after 3 or 4 of such turns, I'm toast.
Any suggestions? All I keep saying to myself is that I have to increase my short term power to be able to close those gaps coming out of the turn.
Where I loose the draft is coming out of a turn where you have to brake a little. I can brake later than these guys b/c I'm lighter, and I can carry the same speed through the turn. Problem is when they hit a few very powerful strokes right after the turn & get in a "super tuck" position - eventually I'm gone. My max gear is a 52-11 but I'm not out of gearing if I wanted to turn a very high cadence to catch them. It's just that I have to do all out sprints to catch them after each turn/switchback. Then after 3 or 4 of such turns, I'm toast.
Any suggestions? All I keep saying to myself is that I have to increase my short term power to be able to close those gaps coming out of the turn.
Don't understand this, but it could be part of the problem.
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If the heavier riders are staying with you on the climbs, then keep training until you're dropping them on the climbs. Use you're weight to your advantage when going up.
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If you able and willing, take up downhill skiing. I rode with a guy who was an avid downhill skier and he would fly down the descents. He was very good at picking out lines down the road and was very comfortable above 45 miles an hour. He has talking about trying pedal to get more speed going early on in the decent.
#9
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I have a tough time staying with larger guys on descents. I weight about 135lbs and the guys that are 160-170 give me fits on the descents. I'm talking about charity type events or very spirited group rides where we try to drop folks. Obviously these guys are a bit stronger than I am as they stay with me on the climb up. It just sucks to be in the lead group only to get dropped by 4 or 5 guys on the descent near the end of the event.
Where I loose the draft is coming out of a turn where you have to brake a little. I can brake later than these guys b/c I'm lighter, and I can carry the same speed through the turn. Problem is when they hit a few very powerful strokes right after the turn & get in a "super tuck" position - eventually I'm gone. My max gear is a 52-11 but I'm not out of gearing if I wanted to turn a very high cadence to catch them. It's just that I have to do all out sprints to catch them after each turn/switchback. Then after 3 or 4 of such turns, I'm toast.
Any suggestions? All I keep saying to myself is that I have to increase my short term power to be able to close those gaps coming out of the turn.
Where I loose the draft is coming out of a turn where you have to brake a little. I can brake later than these guys b/c I'm lighter, and I can carry the same speed through the turn. Problem is when they hit a few very powerful strokes right after the turn & get in a "super tuck" position - eventually I'm gone. My max gear is a 52-11 but I'm not out of gearing if I wanted to turn a very high cadence to catch them. It's just that I have to do all out sprints to catch them after each turn/switchback. Then after 3 or 4 of such turns, I'm toast.
Any suggestions? All I keep saying to myself is that I have to increase my short term power to be able to close those gaps coming out of the turn.
#10
Senior Member
Lighter guys can corner faster, take advantage of that. I weight anywhere from 140-180 lbs during my racing career, so I've experienced both sides. Some tips (i'm assuming you're already fully tucked)::
1. try to get away near end of climb so you go over peak a minute or more earlier than them.
2. DRAFT on downhills, learn to maintain constant 3-5ft distance depending upon speed, brake when they brake, but less
3. when entering turn, learn late-apex technique so you can leave corner faster
4. don't brake as much, go around corner faster than them. So just as you're about to rear-end them, instead of braking, cut to inside (late-apex) and get past them, 40-50 lbs lighter means you can easily go 5-10mph faster than them around corners. At least get even with them so they see you.
5. leaving corner, learn to start pedaling earlier so you can get speed earlier on straights. You're already even with or ahead of them. So if you're going faster, they have to work harder to go faster in order just to catch you.
Hmmm, at downhill speeds... 40-60mph, you should actually be able to draft and make up for their stronger gravity pull...
1. try to get away near end of climb so you go over peak a minute or more earlier than them.
2. DRAFT on downhills, learn to maintain constant 3-5ft distance depending upon speed, brake when they brake, but less
3. when entering turn, learn late-apex technique so you can leave corner faster
4. don't brake as much, go around corner faster than them. So just as you're about to rear-end them, instead of braking, cut to inside (late-apex) and get past them, 40-50 lbs lighter means you can easily go 5-10mph faster than them around corners. At least get even with them so they see you.
5. leaving corner, learn to start pedaling earlier so you can get speed earlier on straights. You're already even with or ahead of them. So if you're going faster, they have to work harder to go faster in order just to catch you.
Hmmm, at downhill speeds... 40-60mph, you should actually be able to draft and make up for their stronger gravity pull...
#11
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Buy a 40 pound Schwinn Varsity.
#12
Chases Dogs for Sport
Gain 40 pounds.
We heavy boys will always have an advantage when the descent is beyond a certain steepness.
But we heavy boys will always have a disadvantage on the equivalent climb. Train to drop them on the climbs, then let them try to catch you on the descents.
It all evens out.
We heavy boys will always have an advantage when the descent is beyond a certain steepness.
But we heavy boys will always have a disadvantage on the equivalent climb. Train to drop them on the climbs, then let them try to catch you on the descents.
It all evens out.
#13
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Have a friend waiting at the summit to hand you a bottle.
Hint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Robic
Hint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Robic
#14
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Or you could wear a small backpack and put some weight in it — could be a tablet or some cycling essentials, food, drinks. I'm about 148 pounds and keep up with the heavy guys on their descents, thanks to my cycling backpack. I also don't have to pedal much.
Last edited by RAF M; 07-02-18 at 01:05 PM.
#15
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Especially relevant in rides with mixed types of bicycles. Dropping tandems or recumbents right before the crest can be a very bad idea.
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Brake early, open up a slight gap, then get off the brakes so that you're entering the turn more quickly than the people in front of you. Then, as you're exiting the turn you're pulling right up in to their draft as they begin accelerating.
Doing the above has made an immense difference in my cornering abilities and has made a big difference in lessening fatigue from trying to close gaps out of corners.
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Stop braking late
Brake early, open up a slight gap, then get off the brakes so that you're entering the turn more quickly than the people in front of you. Then, as you're exiting the turn you're pulling right up in to their draft as they begin accelerating.
Doing the above has made an immense difference in my cornering abilities and has made a big difference in lessening fatigue from trying to close gaps out of corners.
Brake early, open up a slight gap, then get off the brakes so that you're entering the turn more quickly than the people in front of you. Then, as you're exiting the turn you're pulling right up in to their draft as they begin accelerating.
Doing the above has made an immense difference in my cornering abilities and has made a big difference in lessening fatigue from trying to close gaps out of corners.
#18
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There's no tandems or recumbents around here that can stay in the lead group on these events - at least not around here.
#21
Non omnino gravis
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I have a similar problem - and a very bad habit of braking too much on turns, especially on roads of questionable quality. It's a kind of target fixation, maybe; I keep squeezing the brakes and focusing closer and closer - descents on rough roads are painfully stressful. Also, even on roads where I'm familiar with the shape, not clearly seeing the corner exit (and being sure of it) can really throw me off. Meanwhile, as others have pointed out, getting a good start is invaluable. If you can hammer over the crest, it can be a mile before the big guys catch up.
#23
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#24
Recusant Iconoclast
As the OP mentioned charity rides, it's already sketchy enough as it is drafting or riding in a pack on level ground; I've found it's even worse descending as most don't know the proper line, brake suddenly, get too close, have no idea about apexes, etc. etc. IOW, I don't "race" on charity rides.
#25
Senior Member
I have a similar problem - and a very bad habit of braking too much on turns, especially on roads of questionable quality. It's a kind of target fixation, maybe; I keep squeezing the brakes and focusing closer and closer - descents on rough roads are painfully stressful. Also, even on roads where I'm familiar with the shape, not clearly seeing the corner exit (and being sure of it) can really throw me off. Meanwhile, as others have pointed out, getting a good start is invaluable. If you can hammer over the crest, it can be a mile before the big guys catch up.
Don't have to see around entire corner to do it well. Just need to connect the dots. First is braking-marker, where you start-braking. Once you hit that look for apex, let off brakes and turn in. When you get near apex look for exit point. You really only need to see about 1/3rd of the corner at a time to connect the dots.